Opinion: Jonas Siegel and James Mirtle are a couple of Jellyfish.

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Shanny's press conference was not a great look. He relayed too much that should've been kept private, sewering Dubas.

And in his own words, he had decided that Dubas was the right guy for the job. He then, a day later after negotiations, scrambled and made an emotional decision to change course with no backup plan in sight ahead of a very important couple of months for the future of the franchise.

He answers to the board and their preferences, but it was a move made without any foresight.

What worries me more is that Shanny thought Dubas did a good enough job before the playoffs even started to begin contract talks. That means he was happy with both the results and direction that Dubas was going in. Or...was it his direction that Dubas was following? We shall see very soon. If players don't get traded, then we know it was Shanny who fell in love with the core 4.

 

[Donnie740]

I see a bunch of old men saying our core is soft, and they are whining about articles being written that don't fit their narrative, I find it funny.

How would you describe a team that watches its young star prospect get rag-dolled and KTFO’d for the rest of the playoffs and does absolutely nothing to retaliate?

How would you describe a team that watches its superstar forward get jumped by an opponent and does absolutely nothing to retaliate?

If you’re triggered by the word “soft” I can offer several other adjectives to describe it.

 

[Stephen]

What worries me more is that Shanny thought Dubas did a good enough job before the playoffs even started to begin contract talks. That means he was happy with both the results and direction that Dubas was going in. Or...was it his direction that Dubas was following? We shall see very soon. If players don't get traded, then we know it was Shanny who fell in love with the core 4.

My reading is Shanahan and Dubas were a closely aligned partnership with Shanahan in the senior role, Dubas in the junior. This was a satisfying arrangement for Brendan since he had the status and the protection of a GM doing the GM'ing. For Kyle, he probably saw Brendan as an unnecessary road block and a job portfolio and payscale bump he could happily take for himself.

 

[Mess]

The Jonas Report ... A fallen Hero !!!

Leafs front office in mourning & uncontrollable weeping and sobbing.

Confusion and hurt is rippling through the Leafs in the wake of Kyle Dubas’ dismissal: “It doesn’t make any sense”:

There’s a real sense of loss for staff members. Dubas was their leader and the one who hired many of them. Suddenly, he was gone a week after the season came to an end – and without, in their minds, a satisfactory explanation as to why. “It doesn’t make any sense,” a Leafs front office member said of the way Dubas was let go. “That’s why it’s disappointing.”

How can we go on? Life as we know it is over. Leafs hockey has been ruined for me forever.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

My reading is Shanahan and Dubas were a closely aligned partnership with Shanahan in the senior role, Dubas in the junior. This was a satisfying arrangement for Brendan since he had the status and the protection of a GM doing the GM'ing. For Kyle, he probably saw Brendan as an unnecessary road block and a job portfolio and payscale bump he could happily take for himself.

If Dubas wanted to jump Shanny and go straight to the board for approvals...it means that Shanny was the guy who was making things slow down and I find that hard to believe. Dubas would have still waited 3 days (if reports were true) anyways...so why the power play? Oh...maybe because he just wanted the power....it's really hard to say. But, I would totally believe that it was Shanny who wanted to keep the core no matter what they did. We will know soon enough. If none of them move...then it was Shanny all along who kept throwing a wrench in the gears.

 

[Mess]

What worries me more is that Shanny thought Dubas did a good enough job before the playoffs even started to begin contract talks. That means he was happy with both the results and direction that Dubas was going in. Or...was it his direction that Dubas was following? We shall see very soon. If players don't get traded, then we know it was Shanny who fell in love with the core 4.

We heard about claims of Shanny meddling and getting involved in transactions, even by Dubas biggest supporters in the media so you know it must be true.

What IF it was those trade deadline moves that Shanahan directed Dubas to make and then by praising Dubas was in essence praising his own work?

Dubas was the GM in name only, as Shanahan as we're finding out was pulling all the important strings behind the scenes. Keeping Dubas in place simply keeping the chain of command and real power in the President's hands.

As far as the core 4 are concerned its their current contracts and pending no trade status that is really controlling that outcome, never-mind there is no new GM in the chair to make those moves. Leafs would not get fair market value in return for pending UFAs, you're essentially dealing rentals for 50 cents on the dollar return in a very tight 4 week window here until July 1st. That is a worse outcome then keeping them, and facing their new contract demands and then making good decisions at that point of stay or leave.

Then consider the new GM coming in.. What kind of welcome or fresh or fair start would he receive from Leaf Nation if one of his first moves was to deal fan favourites Matthews or Marner away, particularly for a poor return?

A betting man would say keeping the core 4 together going into next year was the odds on favourite of happening anyways. Lets not lose sight these are star players here and its mainly their bloated contracts that are causing the problem of not being able to ice a Cup competitive team around them. Nobody should want them dealt simply for the sake of change and disappointment with the teams end results, unless there is a trade that makes the Leafs better and not worse.

 

[Stephen]

If Dubas wanted to jump Shanny and go straight to the board for approvals...it means that Shanny was the guy who was making things slow down and I find that hard to believe. Dubas would have still waited 3 days (if reports were true) anyways...so why the power play? Oh...maybe because he just wanted the power....it's really hard to say. But, I would totally believe that it was Shanny who wanted to keep the core no matter what they did. We will know soon enough. If none of them move...then it was Shanny all along who kept throwing a wrench in the gears.

The play only served to sideline Shanahan. With 2 years remaining he would be put into lame duck territory like a senior advisor and Dubas would have the presidential access plus the presidential paycheque running longer term than Shanny's. The next step would be to run down the clock on Shanahan and President Dubas would consolidate all powers, promote a crony to GM and you'd have a full regime change.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I think you just contradicted yourself.

I don't see any contradictions. Not sure what you're even referring to.

 

[rojac]

Look at the ridiculous reaction on this board -- over 5000 posts in the "Kyle Dubas Not Returning" thread. Plus multiple threads on what is going to happen with the Leafs with or without this

There are 3 scenarios with Matthews.

1. He is traded before July 1st.
2. Leafs have faith he'll re-sign. Note 1
3. He walks July 1st. 2024.


Note 1.
They can discuss an extension and agree in principle about a contract, but there is nothing binding they can do until July 1st.
People do change their minds ... ask Shanahan ... ask Dubas.

Edit. You know, this is such a Leafie thing, Shanahan changed his mind after offering a deal to Dubas. So Matthews agrees to a deal in principle and then July 1st. says, "Dubas says hi!", I've changed my mind. Okay, okay just that dark place coming through ...

There is a fourth scenario: After July 1st, Matthews decides not to re-sign with the Leafs and agrees to a trade.

 

[rumman]

Actually, it doesn't need be the next GM.

Leafs GM reports to Shanahan who reports to ...

It's really up to ... to make those decisions.

Anyone can make a suggestion to Shanny who can make a sugges...

...

Let's put it this way, if Chicago came to Shanahan and said, our 1st. overall for Nylander does anyone on the planet over the age of 5 say, "Sorry we have to wait until we hire our GM"?

Unless they cleaned house, and I haven't heard that has happened, they should still have the infrastructure in place to make moves/transactions. All that is gone is Dubas personal vision of how to GM the Leafs.

I'm not saying anyone on this board could GM the Leafs, but many on this board are aware of the issues with the team. So you could be GM and pass suggestions up the chain ... and they'd let you know if they agree and give you permission to execute that suggestion.

What would you look at first?

Coach
Matthews
UFA's

So, would you care whether Matthews agreed with your choice of coach? Remember you're acting as new GM. Do you care whether Matthews likes the new coach? Do you care enough not to hire that coach? Do you fire the coach but put off hiring your new coach? I think letting Keefe go now does give him more time to find his next job, and let's all the other coaches out there know there is an opening in Toronto.

If Mathews thinks he’s entitled to be consulted on who is or isn’t the new GM or coach then you trade him yesterday, as talented as he is you don’t want that attitude on your team, and that goes for anyone else on the team………

 

[LeafSteel]

The play only served to sideline Shanahan. With 2 years remaining he would be put into lame duck territory like a senior advisor and Dubas would have the presidential access plus the presidential paycheque running longer term than Shanny's. The next step would be to run down the clock on Shanahan and President Dubas would consolidate all powers, promote a crony to GM and you'd have a full regime change.

This is how I saw it playing out as well.

All Dubas needed to do was wait 2 years for Shanahan's contract to expire, and then step into a President/GM position while Shanahan moves into a meaningless Senior Advisor role.

There is no question Shanahan is now the first one in the line of fire, and I believe he's on the clock.

How ironic that Dubas would have been the shoo-in President after Shanahan moved on. He just was impatient and tried to fast-track the process and blew himself up instead. Looking like it was a blessing in disguise.

Not as smart as he thought he was, apparently.

 

[rumman]

Who is mourning?

One week anniversary of dubas not being a GM

look what I am doing....

Roger that……

 

[Mess]

There is a fourth scenario: After July 1st, Matthews decides not to re-sign with the Leafs and agrees to a trade.

What do you believe the odds of this outcome happening?

Matthews agrees to a trade to a new team, and then his new team instantly weakens themselves by the return going back to Toronto. When as a pending UFA in full control can simply play out the season in Toronto and then join any team of his choice willing to sign him and then add to that teams strength.

What do you think is best for Matthews?

Traded to NYR for Igor Shesterkin & Jacob Trouba OR signing with NYR July 1st 2024 and joining Igor Shesterkin & Jacob Trouba?

 

[mikeyz]

It’s really embarrassing. You’d honestly think someone died. Legit people “in mourning”. I hope those same people get canned. There’s enough soft play on the ice, don’t need soft people off of it too

Couldn’t agree more.

 

[rumman]

Whatever helped you out.

I see a bunch of old men saying our core is soft, and they are whining about articles being written that don't fit their narrative, I find it funny.

What’s with the ageism? if your lucky, you too will grow up to be a adult someday………

 

[AvroArrow]

These 2 are complete garbage, I pity anyone that actually pays for theathletic. Complete garbage. These 2 make me cringe anytime I read their crap. They claim to not know Dubas or have any relationship with him but ride him harder than anyone.

Dubas has his own little cult following, these 2 clowns are at the top.

 

[rumman]

We heard about claims of Shanny meddling and getting involved in transactions, even by Dubas biggest supporters in the media so you know it must be true.

What IF it was those trade deadline moves that Shanahan directed Dubas to make and then by praising Dubas was in essence praising his own work?

Dubas was the GM in name only, as Shanahan as we're finding out was pulling all the important strings behind the scenes. Keeping Dubas in place simply keeping the chain of command and real power in the President's hands.

As far as the core 4 are concerned its their current contracts and pending no trade status that is really controlling that outcome, never-mind there is no new GM in the chair to make those moves. Leafs would not get fair market value in return for pending UFAs, you're essentially dealing rentals for 50 cents on the dollar return in a very tight 4 week window here until July 1st. That is a worse outcome then keeping them, and facing their new contract demands and then making good decisions at that point of stay or leave.

Then consider the new GM coming in.. What kind of welcome or fresh or fair start would he receive from Leaf Nation if one of his first moves was to deal fan favourites Matthews or Marner away, particularly for a poor return?

A betting man would say keeping the core 4 together going into next year was the odds on favourite of happening anyways. Lets not lose sight these are star players here and its mainly their bloated contracts that are causing the problem of not being able to ice a Cup competitive team around them. Nobody should want them dealt simply for the sake of change and disappointment with the teams end results, unless there is a trade that makes the Leafs better and not worse.

Ah this hypothesis reminds me of the good old days of the puppet master Richard Peddie pulling the strings of JFJ, good times……….

The play only served to sideline Shanahan. With 2 years remaining he would be put into lame duck territory like a senior advisor and Dubas would have the presidential access plus the presidential paycheque running longer term than Shanny's. The next step would be to run down the clock on Shanahan and President Dubas would consolidate all powers, promote a crony to GM and you'd have a full regime change.

Dubas suffers from premature expectations, he made his move too darn early……….

 

[Mess]

It’s really embarrassing. You’d honestly think someone died. Legit people “in mourning”. I hope those same people get canned. There’s enough soft play on the ice, don’t need soft people off of it too

Jonas Siegel report even includes this paragraph,

The Athletic reached out to several people who work for the Leafs this week. Anonymity was granted to them as they were not permitted by the team to speak to the media.

So all these currently employed people are running to Siegel against the orders of MLSE their boss.

I'd personally expect that if Jonas Siegel believes he is doing them a favour with his report allowing them to air their dirty laundry in public, he might actually be getting more front office staff fired and out the door with Dubas.

Insubordination (defiance of authority; refusal to obey orders) is the term companies use as a valid reason for firing employees with cause even with guaranteed contracts.

Jason Spezza resigning was the only staff member that handled Dubas firing correctly. If you don't like it move on !

 

[57 Years No Cup]

If Dubas wanted to jump Shanny and go straight to the board for approvals...it means that Shanny was the guy who was making things slow down and I find that hard to believe. Dubas would have still waited 3 days (if reports were true) anyways...so why the power play? Oh...maybe because he just wanted the power....it's really hard to say. But, I would totally believe that it was Shanny who wanted to keep the core no matter what they did. We will know soon enough. If none of them move...then it was Shanny all along who kept throwing a wrench in the gears.

Yup. Now there's evidence I would buy. Not this rumor, hearsay, and innuendo garbage.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Look at the ridiculous reaction on this board -- over 5000 posts in the "Kyle Dubas Not Returning" thread. Plus multiple threads on what is going to happen with the Leafs with or without this


There is a fourth scenario: After July 1st, Matthews decides not to re-sign with the Leafs and agrees to a trade.

Which is the stupidest things the Leafs could let him do. Let's say Matthews says he wants to go to LA. Surely the Kings would know this and the Leafs trade return would essentially be a take it or leave it thing. If the Leafs ask too much LA walks because they get Matthews for free next year anyway.

No, if Matthews wants out you trade him before July 1. If you ask him and he doesn't answer you trade him before July 1. If he refuses to or slow walks a negotiation for an extension you trade him before July 1.

 

[Menzinger]

What worries me more is that Shanny thought Dubas did a good enough job before the playoffs even started to begin contract talks. That means he was happy with both the results and direction that Dubas was going in. Or...was it his direction that Dubas was following? We shall see very soon. If players don't get traded, then we know it was Shanny who fell in love with the core 4.

And I'd expect that to be the case After all, its the team that Shanny helped build himself from the start of when he was hired back in 2014.

Literally everything that has come out from Dubas/Shanny directly, or reported in the media since the firing points the failing interpersonal relationship between the two men as why Dubas' had to go more so than anything to do with the team itself.

It seems some people really want to believe that Shanny's decision to fire Dubas was a sign he wants major changes to hockey ops, the core ect, but the evidence doesn't support that. And they're likely in for a fairly rude awakening when July 1st roles around

 

[57 Years No Cup]

If Mathews thinks he’s entitled to be consulted on who is or isn’t the new GM or coach then you trade him yesterday, as talented as he is you don’t want that attitude on your team, and that goes for anyone else on the team………

YUP.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

Whatever helped you out.

I see a bunch of old men saying our core is soft, and they are whining about articles being written that don't fit their narrative, I find it funny.

What narrative?

The facts are that Dubas inherited a team that was on a huge upswing and that had 105 points in the regular season but lost in the first round of the playoffs to the Bruins.

The Leafs had made tremendous forward progress in a very short period of time with Lou as GM and Babcock as coach.

Still, changes were made.

After five years with Dubas at the helm, the team made very little forward progress from where he took over the team and after five full seasons the team won exactly one playoff round which occurred in year five.

At some point in time, reality has to set in and it’s time to switch it up and try something else, even if the GM is a “nice guy”.

 

[Stephen]

Dubas suffers from premature expectations, he made his move too darn early……….

You don't get canned from an NHL GM job by 37 without being a major cutthroat somewhere along the way. Not a value judgement. I take these boardroom plays as entertainment and I'm not personally offended...

Though I will say that I don't think he needs to constantly frame himself as this great guy all the time. I just find it a little bit extra. All anyone is looking for is a championship. Everything else is floof.

 

[Apex Predator]

What narrative?

The facts are that Dubas inherited a team that was on a huge upswing and that had 105 points in the regular season but lost in the first round of the playoffs to the Bruins.

The Leafs had made tremendous forward progress in a very short period of time with Lou as GM and Babcock as coach.

Still, changes were made.

After five years with Dubas at the helm, the team made very little forward progress from where he took over the team and after five full seasons the team won exactly one playoff round which occurred in year five.

At some point in time, reality has to set in and it’s time to switch it up and try something else, even if the GM is a “nice guy”.

This is the part that many ignore. If it wasn’t Dubas any other GM could have got the leafs to this exact same position. Dubas was granted a team coming of 105 point season, tons of cap space, draft picks and young players.