Opinion: Jonas Siegel and James Mirtle are a couple of Jellyfish.

[Legion34]

O'Reilly was approximately $1.8M.

If Dubas was willing to dump Kerfoot, he could have easily had Ekholm over McCabe. I believe he had the choice, wasn't hindered by anyone, and chose McCabe because of cap flexibility. Which is fair, but I think it's still a bad choice.

I did not like McCabe at all this playoffs. He went for dumb hits and tried to make crazy rushes/pinches he has no business doing.

He looked slow like he would get the puck in his zone. Stop. Wait to be swarmed and try to make a forced play.

I don’t know if it was an adjustment period or he should be a 3rd pair d going forward

 

[Nineteen67]

Hint: 2023

Can you point me to an unbiased source of anything in the media?

Social Media in open society is a complete cesspool.

I'd be fine if most of the media, half the team, and the entire MLSE staff, and 25% of the Husnock were eliminated.

Unbiased media? Flat out liars.

 

[Nineteen67]

My favourite Jonas segment on OverDrive was when the boys were taking the piss out of him for all these “advance stats“ he was peddling.

OverDrive crew “ Alright Jonas and the cronies, who leads the Leafs in the xGF% squared, nonsense?”

Jonas….um ah , well,it’s Pierre Engvall.

OD crew, after they picked themselves up floor laughing, laughed some more.

 

[Dreakmur]

Does part of "understanding hockey" also include the realization that Shanahan -- who is still here -- thought Dubas' performance as GM was good and that he offered him a contract?

Dubas did a good enough job to get an extension, but barely. He certainly didn’t do a good enough job to have any kind of leverage in an attempted power play.

 

[stealth1]

Dubas did a good enough job to get an extension, but barely. He certainly didn’t do a good enough job to have any kind of leverage in an attempted power play.

I disagree. It sounded like what Dubas wanted was more of a streamlined system. IMO it doesn't matter who side you believe it still screams disfunction. The fact that the core 4 is not allowed to be moved scares me. What GM wants to come here if he's not allowed to do what's best for the team. MLSE is no better than the Flames owner. They care more about playoff revenue than making the winning the cup.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The opening post to this thread seems more sensationalist than anything I've seen out of those guys. I'm not sure why anybody would care about any hockey media personality or what they say in this market anyway, but I don't see what's unusual about reports on the team correctly identifying and discussing the mess Shanahan has created, and the quality GM lost, especially during the offseason with nothing else happening and the team left in limbo. Most Leaf fans aren't happy with this situation.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I think it's definitely fair to say someone like Jonas has a pro Dubas bias - and he's far from the only Toronto media type that has a sympathetic view of him.

It's also not someone like Jonas: job to prop up Shanny/MLSE's version of events either.

In relation, people have been throwing a lot of hate towards Chris Johnson here the past few days because he reported some news they didn't want to hear about Shanny's reluctance to move any of the core four. They're not just here to make fans feel good with their reports

You mean he "reported" third party hearsay of an anonymous party, right? That's hardly "news".

 

[The Management]

I think Kyper and Bourne had the right take on this hysteria. Everyone in "mourning" is coming from a place of insecurity. As long as the GM wasn't getting fired for years of mediocrity they felt their jobs were probably safe too. Now that the first domino has fallen everyone knows their time is ticking. Which is why you're getting stories like this.

Leafs fan rejoice. Change is good. Sure, things could get worse in the regular season maybe but they can literally only get better in the post season which is all that matters. And if they don't make the post season for me it's the same as if they make it to the 1st round and crash out every year anyways. Only upside from my point of view. I'm not anti-Dubas or pro-Shanahan, I'm anti-years of stagnation and coddling of failure. Shanahan should leave soon too if he is committed to keeping this failure of a core together at all costs too.

They're all just a bunch of storming lighteyes at the end of the day. Send them all to the shattered plains, I say. Let a chasmfiend swallow them all.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I think Kyper and Bourne had the right take on this hysteria. Everyone in "mourning" is coming from a place of insecurity. As long as the GM wasn't getting fired for years of mediocrity they felt their jobs were probably safe too. Now that the first domino has fallen everyone knows their time is ticking. Which is why you're getting stories like this.

Leafs fan rejoice. Change is good. Sure, things could get worse in the regular season maybe but they can literally only get better in the post season which is all that matters. And if they don't make the post season for me it's the same as if they make it to the 1st round and crash out every year anyways. Only upside from my point of view. I'm not anti-Dubas or pro-Shanahan, I'm anti-years of stagnation and coddling of failure. Shanahan should leave soon too if he is committed to keeping this failure of a core together at all costs too.

Well done!

 

[rumman]

Do you hold it to be untrue, or just don't like that it was reported?

I mean, pretty inconsequential article, I'd agree, but in 2023 in Toronto after the Gm gets fired someone is reporting on how the front office staff is taking it. Who cares?

This place needs to stop separating the world in to pro and anti Dubas. Has the whole 5 years been like this?

View attachment 713114​

The sooner Dubas starts ruining another team the better, let his disciples follow him to wherever, hopefully Ottawa………

 

[justashadowof]

No such thing as unbiased. Those who claim to be unbiased are lying, either to themselves or to you. Every single individual walking this planet operate on a list of assumptions about the world, about human nature, about the reality they experience. We often don't know the assumptions we are making because the assumptions operate underneath our conscious thought.

As for these guys reporting these "scare" stories about disgruntled MLSE employees, they're just chasing clicks and nothing better than an angle that feeds both sides of some polarizing issue.

 

[The Apologist]

That's not it. Dubas never gave up anything. And I don't believe all this nonsense is because of Dubas at all.

The general direction of this team's coverage is that whatever they do is bad. Listen to Siegel's podcasts before the TDL. He thought the leafs were handcuffed and wouldn't make any moves.

Controversy sells. The Toronto sports media is the true cancer.

 

[rumman]

Does part of "understanding hockey" also include the realization that Shanahan -- who is still here -- thought Dubas' performance as GM was good and that he offered him a contract?

Shanahan hired Dubas, he’s as much to blame for the state of the team as anyone. Imo he should be fired too, but this threats is about the shill worthyness of Dubas’ puppets in the media……..

 

[Mess]

Is this the article about the mourning of Dubas lol?

Yup

Confusion and hurt ripples through Maple Leafs in wake of Kyle Dubas’ dismissal​

Anger. Confusion. Shock. Disappointment.

Those are some of the feelings reverberating around the Maple Leafs right now in the aftermath of Kyle Dubas’ firing as general manager last week.

The Athletic reached out to several people who work for the Leafs this week. Anonymity was granted to them as they were not permitted by the team to speak to the media.

This story reflects their feelings at the moment and speaks to a level of disillusionment that team president Brendan Shanahan and the next GM of the Leafs will have to work to unwind.

“I’m in mourning right now,” one person who worked in the front office with Dubas during his time with the Leafs said.

There’s a real sense of loss for staff members. Dubas was their leader and the one who hired many of them. Suddenly, he was gone a week after the season came to an end – and without, in their minds, a satisfactory explanation as to why.

“It doesn’t make any sense,” a Leafs front office member said of the way Dubas was let go. “That’s why it’s disappointing.”

Shanahan went from wanting to bring Dubas back to firing him in a matter of days. And then offered his version of events in a press conference that left people inside the organization confused and upset.

'It doesn’t make any sense': Kyle Dubas’ dismissal leaves Maple Leafs staff confused and hurt

There's an overall sense of disillusionment around the Maple Leafs right now according to members of the team's front office.

theathletic.com

 

[kevsh]

There’s enough soft play on the ice, don’t need soft people off of it too

I've said before, the problem with the Leafs is the entire organization. The incompetence, softness and no accountability starts at the top and goes all the way down to the locker room.

The problem is there is no one above the suits at MLSE to fix it. The only hope is that they sell the team and the new owner is not a corporate softie but someone who demands on-ice success and will personally crack skulls until it happens. Until then ... it'll be more of the same. More weakness, more losing, and more pain for us fans.

 

[Menzinger]

You mean he "reported" third party hearsay of an anonymous party, right? That's hardly "news".

Hearsay is a legal term, not something that applies to journalism....

Journalists report on third party conversations all the time

If you have any actual proof CJ completely made it up, feel free to share it

 

[Ianturnedbull]

The opening post to this thread seems more sensationalist than anything I've seen out of those guys. I'm not sure why anybody would care about any hockey media personality or what they say in this market anyway, but I don't see what's unusual about reports on the team correctly identifying and discussing the mess Shanahan has created, and the quality GM lost, especially during the offseason with nothing else happening and the team left in limbo. Most Leaf fans aren't happy with this situation.

I think you just contradicted yourself.
_______
I don't deny that I am emotional about Siegel/Mirtle's tactics. I guess that makes me a fan.

 

[justashadowof]

I'd love to believe that Brendan Shanahan has been operating in some 4D chess mode this off-season about to re-make the front office into something better but history suggests otherwise to me. Same way I wanted to believe several seasons ago that Shanahan was making a savvy choice for team GM regardless of all of my spidey senses going off. I believe from the filtered evidence we have gotten over the past week that Dubas had ticked off both Shanahan and the Board at MLSE. Whether Dubas did this intentionally or inadvertently is up for debate. My guess is intentionally because he carried a grudge over not receiving an automatic extension and just thought it would be a "lesson" for Shanahan and the Board to not take Dubas for granted and that ultimately a deal would be struck. I also believe Shanahan might be "naive" enough to think the array of Dubas regime nouveau hockey front office types aren't dyed in the wool Dubas loyaists who won't turn into saboteurs without Dubas as their boss. I don't think Shanahan actually understands the psyche of some of these people. Think of less extreme versions of that loose cannon analytics lady who worked for the Devils and Canucks.

 

[Petrus]

Siegel/Mirtle should also present the other side of the picture and not just those who are “mourning”. They would be appear to be more credible.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

BRB guys, I'll be mourning that one playoff round win and an entitled & overpaid, 'don't give a shit, country club' atmosphere that Dubas put in place.

 

[Morbo]

Shanahan hired Dubas, he’s as much to blame for the state of the team as anyone. Imo he should be fired too, but this threats is about the shill worthyness of Dubas’ puppets in the media……..

I know what the thread is about...just pointing out the irony of partying about Dubas being gone when the guy who was perfectly willing to ink him longterm is still in charge.

Honestly at this point this has to be Shanahan's last bullet. We're about to embark on GM and coach #3.

 

[Stand Witness]

Meh, it seems like Jonas is taking flack for an embarrassing comment by a MLSE employee. Not his problem that someone said something that ridiculous.

Anyways l like Jonas and think he fits really well on his days filling in Overdrive with Hayes and Odog.

Between him and Mirtle, I think Mirtle is the one more genuinely hurt by the Dubas situation. Jonas has always been pretty critical of Dubas at times and I wouldn’t call him a hard pro Dubas guy but he for sure leans towards Dubas. Jonas is far from a pure analytics guy and he makes that pretty clear in his podcasts.

I know its 2023 where you have to take a side and draw a line in the sand, but it is possible to dislike the way the split went but also have no issues with the Leafs moving in from Dubas… or even to acknowledge that changing your mind in a week after a decision is made over a year can be concerning.

I felt like change needed to happen. I liked Dubas and I think he is a good GM. I also don’t care much that he isn’t back. The team needed change.

 

[Dreakmur]

I disagree. It sounded like what Dubas wanted was more of a streamlined system. IMO it doesn't matter who side you believe it still screams disfunction. The fact that the core 4 is not allowed to be moved scares me. What GM wants to come here if he's not allowed to do what's best for the team. MLSE is no better than the Flames owner. They care more about playoff revenue than making the winning the cup.

Seems like you misunderstood rather than disagree. The point was he didn’t have leverage for any kind of ask.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Hearsay is a legal term, not something that applies to journalism....

Journalists report on third party conversations all the time

If you have any actual proof CJ completely made it up, feel free to share it

I have reliable information from anonymous sources that CJ made it up.

There's your proof.

 

[justashadowof]

Siegel/Mirtle should also present the other side of the picture and not just those who are “mourning”. They would be appear to be more credible.

That may trickle out eventually. Someone in the media would make a lot of enemies if they reported how relieved (pure speculation on my part) other MLSE front office guys are.

Do we think it's an accident that Dubas press box tantrums made it on the broadcasts? Do we really think every one in the hockey world likes this guy?