Opinion: Jonas Siegel and James Mirtle are a couple of Jellyfish.

[ULF_55]

No. Mirtle/Siegel had no problem with Shanny 2 weeks ago (as far as I can tell). Now they are saying on their podcast "how can we trust him now?" Shanny was asked about trading the "core 4". Shanny said that there was nothing in the works (paraphrasing). Mirtle/Siegel believe that he's only saying that to "calm the fanbase," Yeah Jonas. It's his job to keep the fans calm. Why would he want the fans to believe that it's all crumbling down? Moving the "core 4" or not should be up to the next GM. Shouldn't it?

Actually, it doesn't need be the next GM.

Leafs GM reports to Shanahan who reports to ...

It's really up to ... to make those decisions.

Anyone can make a suggestion to Shanny who can make a sugges...

...

Let's put it this way, if Chicago came to Shanahan and said, our 1st. overall for Nylander does anyone on the planet over the age of 5 say, "Sorry we have to wait until we hire our GM"?

Unless they cleaned house, and I haven't heard that has happened, they should still have the infrastructure in place to make moves/transactions. All that is gone is Dubas personal vision of how to GM the Leafs.

I'm not saying anyone on this board could GM the Leafs, but many on this board are aware of the issues with the team. So you could be GM and pass suggestions up the chain ... and they'd let you know if they agree and give you permission to execute that suggestion.

What would you look at first?

Coach
Matthews
UFA's

So, would you care whether Matthews agreed with your choice of coach? Remember you're acting as new GM. Do you care whether Matthews likes the new coach? Do you care enough not to hire that coach? Do you fire the coach but put off hiring your new coach? I think letting Keefe go now does give him more time to find his next job, and let's all the other coaches out there know there is an opening in Toronto.

 

[Mess]

You mean he "reported" third party hearsay of an anonymous party, right? That's hardly "news".

What do you expect Shanahan had to clean up another Dubas mess?.

It was Dubas that tossed the core 4 under the bus at his PC suggesting "all options on the table". Shanahan had to call the core 4 to do damage control and tell them disregard anything Dubas said because he has relieved him of his duties. So now its no longer out there for the players to accept as gospel with the messenger of that message sent packing by the organization.

So anyone can make an educated guess (that understands contract clauses) that its more likely than not that the core 4 will be in tact come July 1st, particularly without a GM in place. Shanahan telling and/or reassuring them the organization is not actively shopping them, can be taken as they might all be back, but its not guaranteed regardless of what Chris Johnston claims as Toronto is certainly not bound by his unverified reporting..

 

[ULF_55]

Yup

Confusion and hurt ripples through Maple Leafs in wake of Kyle Dubas’ dismissal​

View attachment 713163

Anger. Confusion. Shock. Disappointment.

Those are some of the feelings reverberating around the Maple Leafs right now in the aftermath of Kyle Dubas’ firing as general manager last week.

The Athletic reached out to several people who work for the Leafs this week. Anonymity was granted to them as they were not permitted by the team to speak to the media.

This story reflects their feelings at the moment and speaks to a level of disillusionment that team president Brendan Shanahan and the next GM of the Leafs will have to work to unwind.

“I’m in mourning right now,” one person who worked in the front office with Dubas during his time with the Leafs said.

There’s a real sense of loss for staff members. Dubas was their leader and the one who hired many of them. Suddenly, he was gone a week after the season came to an end – and without, in their minds, a satisfactory explanation as to why.

“It doesn’t make any sense,” a Leafs front office member said of the way Dubas was let go. “That’s why it’s disappointing.”

Shanahan went from wanting to bring Dubas back to firing him in a matter of days. And then offered his version of events in a press conference that left people inside the organization confused and upset.

'It doesn’t make any sense': Kyle Dubas’ dismissal leaves Maple Leafs staff confused and hurt

There's an overall sense of disillusionment around the Maple Leafs right now according to members of the team's front office.

theathletic.com

They sound like regular employees/people who have had their boss fired.

Anyone who's been around/worked long enough has likely experienced that.

There is a weather report today as well.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

What do you expect Shanahan had to clean up another Dubas mess?.

It was Dubas that tossed the core 4 under the bus at his PC suggesting "all options on the table". Shanahan had to call the core 4 to do damage control and tell them disregard anything Dubas said because he has relieved him of his duties. So now its no longer out there for the players to accept as gospel with the messenger of that message sent packing by the organization.

So anyone can make an educated guess (that understands contract clauses) that its more likely than not that the core 4 will be in tact come July 1st, particularly without a GM in place. Shanahan telling and/or reassuring them the organization is not actively shopping them, can be taken as they might all be back, but its not guaranteed regardless of what Chris Johnston claims as Toronto is certainly not bound by his unverified reporting..

The first paragraph contains logic I can accept. However, if what you say in the second paragraph is true, and Matthews goes into July 1st without a signed contract extension-in-principle, then Shanahan should be fired on the spot. Nylander can be dealt with as his NTC would allow trades during next season if necessary. Marner's contract is a whole other kettle o' fish. Total stinkage.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

Honestly, stepping back in to the fray here, it feels more acrimonious then tank/anti-tank days.

Definitely agreed.

Not really though. The reaction of the Athletic has been partisan and kind of weird. They are sort of the viewpoint of the cultured fan, who wants to pay a subscription and say the right thing in social settings, this obvious biased journalism is fun to illuminate.

There are several GM/Dubas/Shanny/ImpactofDubas every single one of them has the same discussion. Some are genuinely copy-pasted with a bit of a different line with very little insight offered or discussion.

Thats why I posted the beating the dead horse

 

[Mess]

When reading this thread it gives me a picture in my head of Jonas Siegel, James Mirtle and Chris Johnston all sitting around a small table preparing for their next Leafs Report podcast together, and crying uncontrollably.. Their meal ticket Dubas has been fired, and they're all in deep mourning and shock now over the loss of their #1 insider source for information and future reporting.

Without a real source now they might even resort to making things up and reporting them as fact without verification.

 

[justashadowof]

In other industries, I bet it's rare to experience a manager get fired. I've experienced a manager choosing to leave, others going to new departments, another seemingly promoted on paper to some position where they can do less harm to the business, I've even seen someone with the title warehouse supervisor (effectively a manager however) get demoted to caretaker (yes, it really happened).

Firing of co-workers were rare in my experience although each time it happened was quite shocking until you'd later find out the reason(s): theft, breaking of corporate security policies, although one time it was an honest individual wasn't producing the right kind of stability data.

 

[ULF_55]

I also believe Shanahan might be "naive" enough to think the array of Dubas regime nouveau hockey front office types aren't dyed in the wool Dubas loyaists who won't turn into saboteurs without Dubas as their boss. I don't think Shanahan actually understands the psyche of some of these people. Think of less extreme versions of that loose cannon analytics lady who worked for the Devils and Canucks.

Yeah, I don't believe this will be true.

People will grumble, people will talk / whisper but unless they have no concern about money, they'll be adult enough to know life goes on and their money never ever came from Dubas. They'll suck it up and do their best to make themselves look good to the new guy, or their next employer.

I've seen it many times over my career, good people let go, "we're going in a different direction"...

It isn't like they can go across the street to the next NHL hockey team.

Now if they're ready to pull the plug or have been working because it's fun and Dubas made it fun yeah sure, but odds are they just say, "I'm going in a different direction." This is exactly what has happened to someone very close to me in the past month. Boss at the top changed, direction of the organization changed, employee with million$ has been working because it was fun, but said the fun is gone and so am I.

 

[PromisedLand]

Must be a very important report Siegel wrote because he put it up on twitter yesterday and then reposted the very same report with the in case you missed it ICYMI heading today.

View attachment 713131

View attachment 713132

Then he joined James Mirtle on his pod cast to cover it all again.,

Mirtle + Seigel + CJ = Grade A 100% absolute TRASH

 

[ULF_55]

The first paragraph contains logic I can accept. However, if what you say in the second paragraph is true, and Matthews goes into July 1st without a signed contract extension-in-principle, then Shanahan should be fired on the spot. Nylander can be dealt with as his NTC would allow trades during next season if necessary. Marner's contract is a whole other kettle o' fish. Total stinkage.

There are 3 scenarios with Matthews.

1. He is traded before July 1st.
2. Leafs have faith he'll re-sign. Note 1
3. He walks July 1st. 2024.


Note 1.
They can discuss an extension and agree in principle about a contract, but there is nothing binding they can do until July 1st.
People do change their minds ... ask Shanahan ... ask Dubas.

Edit. You know, this is such a Leafie thing, Shanahan changed his mind after offering a deal to Dubas. So Matthews agrees to a deal in principle and then July 1st. says, "Dubas says hi!", I've changed my mind. Okay, okay just that dark place coming through ...

 

[57 Years No Cup]

There are 3 scenarios with Matthews.

1. He is traded before July 1st.
2. Leafs have faith he'll re-sign. Note 1
3. He walks July 1st. 2024.


Note 1.
They can discuss an extension and agree in principle about a contract, but there is nothing binding they can do until July 1st.
People do change their minds ... ask Shanahan ... ask Dubas.

True. Then the only risk limiting and damage mitigating strategy option the club has is to trade him. And Marner, for that matter

 

[notbias]

The amount of whining in here is hilarious.

Bunch of old men crying like kids over words.

 

[PromisedLand]

Who is mourning?

One week anniversary of dubas not being a GM

look what I am doing....

 

[horner]

I think it's definitely fair to say someone like Jonas has a pro Dubas bias - and he's far from the only Toronto media type that has a sympathetic view of him.

It's also not someone like Jonas: job to prop up Shanny/MLSE's version of events either.

In relation, people have been throwing a lot of hate towards Chris Johnson here the past few days because he reported some news they didn't want to hear about Shanny's reluctance to move any of the core four. They're not just here to make fans feel good with their reports

My only question did Chris Johnson get his information directly from Shanahan.
If that is the case why haven't we heard this from Shanahan directly.
We don't even know who they are interviewing for a GM , Dreger was on tsn yesterday saying it is air tight only speculation.
Pittsburg and Calgary not so much an open book.

 

[3blizzard4]

When your only source in the mecca of hockey is fired and you have no once else to turn to you get these two morons who are about to become obsolete.

 

[justashadowof]

The amount of whining in here is hilarious.

Bunch of old men crying like kids over words.

Whining about whining. How meta.

 

[notbias]

Whining about whining. How meta.

I want it to continue, I think it is funny.

 

[PromisedLand]

When reading this thread it gives me a picture in my head of Jonas Siegel, James Mirtle and Chris Johnston all sitting around a small table preparing for their next Leafs Report podcast together, and crying uncontrollably.. Their meal ticket Dubas has been fired, and they're all in deep mourning and shock now over the loss of their #1 insider source for information and future reporting.

Without a real source now they might even resort to making things up and reporting them as fact without verification.

 

[justashadowof]

I want it to continue, I think it is funny.

 

[New User Name]

I don't know who is right or who is wrong.

If it's true Shanahan called Matthews, Marner and Nylander and told them they would not be traded, no reputable person would want to be GM.

Just another day in the SNAFU Toronto Maple Leafs organization.

 

[ULF_55]

Once a new GM is in place, the Leafs will want the same sort of free publicity that these "reporters" provide.

It's just noise.

 

[horner]

There's been reports that delays caused by the board and Shanahan kept them from getting a top pair defenceman at the TDL.

That would be either Ekholm or Chychrun. Well, the Ekholm deal happened after the McCabe deal. And Chychrun was available for more than a year.

Ekholm's cap hit is 6 mil + 6 rd pk
Nashville got
Barrie 4.5 mil + 1st + 3 rd

We don't have a Barrie
Nashville can trade him this summer for a 2nd rd pk

Kerfoot would have needed to be traded
Nashville probably wanted Knies ( non-starter for me)

How do you fit in Ekhom for the next 2 yrs

Chycrum got hurt shortly after playing for Ottawa. Iam glad we didn't go after him .
Good defenseman with a great shot which is what we need but way to injury prone

If the trade got blocked iam glad

 

[notbias]

Whatever helped you out.

I see a bunch of old men saying our core is soft, and they are whining about articles being written that don't fit their narrative, I find it funny.

 

[Donnie740]

Meh, it seems like Jonas is taking flack for an embarrassing comment by a MLSE employee. Not his problem that someone said something that ridiculous.

Anyways l like Jonas and think he fits really well on his days filling in Overdrive with Hayes and Odog.

Between him and Mirtle, I think Mirtle is the one more genuinely hurt by the Dubas situation. Jonas has always been pretty critical of Dubas at times and I wouldn’t call him a hard pro Dubas guy but he for sure leans towards Dubas. Jonas is far from a pure analytics guy and he makes that pretty clear in his podcasts.

I know its 2023 where you have to take a side and draw a line in the sand, but it is possible to dislike the way the split went but also have no issues with the Leafs moving in from Dubas… or even to acknowledge that changing your mind in a week after a decision is made over a year can be concerning.

I felt like change needed to happen. I liked Dubas and I think he is a good GM. I also don’t care much that he isn’t back. The team needed change.

So if some irrelevant coffee fetch makes a “ridiculous comment” why would he make it a breaking news story?

 

[A1LeafNation]

I think they were calling out the idiocy of Shanahan making an emotional decision and the remaining GMs available are mediocre at best.

He identified Dubas as the Leafs GM but decided to change his mind. Dubas remains as GM and the next 6 weeks aren't a shitshow that it is now.