Oilers waive Jack Campbell

[fuswald]

A $25M asset isn’t priority for Schwartz? Media making excuses

Regardless it's a good thing to keep Schwartz away from him.


Should find an ex hof goalie to coach not a bad ex goalie it makes sense. Just because Shwartz read a lot of books doesn't make him a good goalie coach. Some things can only come from experience obviously!
Every other trade or skill in the world one wants to learn from a master. Why would goalie be different.

I don't get it.
Campbell will learn from Legace how to be a mediocre goalie but I guess better than a bad goalie.

 

[GMofOilers]

The new coach bump for Campbell is going to be huge when he gets back. He didnt have no trust in Woody. Woody sunk him

 

[McFlash97]

Wonder if Campbell finding his game in the minors is another black eye for Dustin Schwartz

 

[guymez]

The new coach bump for Campbell is going to be huge when he gets back. He didnt have no trust in Woody. Woody sunk him

Campbell sunk hiimself.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Unfortunately Schwartz isn't at his disposal. He's responsible for the NHL roster goaltenders and supporting a team that has to now play at a +.600 clip for any hope to make the playoffs. Trying to fix a $25 million man why not cater to his request for some personalized coaching support? Unfortunately the biggest issue is between Jack's ears which has been his kryptonite since draft day. Lots of athletic ability but the internal confidence and mental skills (resiliency, coping etc.) comes and goes too much for the most difficult position on the ice.

Unfortunately? Schwartz has been there every step of the way since he got here and he has struggled mightily under his direction. I agree that Campbell's biggest issues have been mental, but on the flip side if his form isn't where it's supposed to be then that will also affect his mental game.

I watched highlights.. One of them was incredibly soft. Really should we really be saying that's a decent stat line in the AHL when it's our starting goalie? I guess I'm out to lunch thinking he should be close to lights out or it's not good enough at this point in his career.

Well if you expect a goalie to be better than 0.917sv% on average that is expecting a lot. Yes it is at the AHL level but his team was badly outshot and he gave them a chance to win. 2 of the guys that beat him were Wright and Lind, 2 pretty good talents IMO.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Wonder if Campbell finding his game in the minors is another black eye for Dustin Schwartz

Dude already looks like a raccoon from all of the goaltending blunders here so it likely wouldn't change anything even if Campbell somehow came back and played like a NHL goalie again. It would probably piss him off if his pupil would lose the starters net to Jack.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Unfortunately? Schwartz has been there every step of the way since he got here and he has struggled mightily under his direction. I agree that Campbell's biggest issues have been mental, but on the flip side if his form isn't where it's supposed to be then that will also affect his mental game.

Well if you expect a goalie to be better than 0.917sv% on average that is expecting a lot. Yes it is at the AHL level but his team was badly outshot and he gave them a chance to win. 2 of the guys that beat him were Wright and Lind, 2 pretty good talents IMO.

Campbell's issues have existed since draft day. Up and down pattern of his game consistent inconsistency throughout his pro career. It's not a new thing just that Campbell's athleticism masks the critical mental lapses when he runs hot but come back when the confidence inevitably waivers.
Now talking every step of the way, Schwartz has actually helped several young, developing goaltenders from junior age into becoming NHL goaltenders with Hart, Skinner, Jary, Broissoit. There is some evidence of positive success.

It's not a binary issue. Fire Schartz, but do it based on his lead along with Kenny's kid that Campbell was the final piece in a hopeful Cup window team. That $25 million 5 year deal has crippled this team. Thank goodness Skinner overachieved and didn't wilt last year onboarding in what was suppose to be an NHL back-up support role.

Jack Campbell is the only one who is going to salvage Jack Campbell. Wresting his mental game is the struggle of his game and the unseen component that sinks or swims many good goaltenders fighting to earn a living at apex level of competition.

 

[ujju2]

Apparently he's called Manny Legace to come help him find his game in Bako. Clearly more trust there than in Schwartz.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Regardless it's a good thing to keep Schwartz away from him.


Should find an ex hof goalie to coach not a bad ex goalie it makes sense. Just because Shwartz read a lot of books doesn't make him a good goalie coach. Some things can only come from experience obviously!
Every other trade or skill in the world one wants to learn from a master. Why would goalie be different.

I don't get it.
Campbell will learn from Legace how to be a mediocre goalie but I guess better than a bad goalie.

Some of the elite goalie coaches never played in the NHL. Francois Allaire, Mitch Korn, Ian Clark. Having good raw putty to work with is a critical consideration. Campbell's worked with a ton of coaches and regrettable the mental component of playing this brutal position re-occurs and sinks the consistency in performance demanded by the hardest, most unforgiving position likely in professional sports.

Jack Campbell needs to conquer the space between his ears is a tough reality. This team needs him and hopefully an AHL reset can help him retain the confidence, resiliency and coping skills needed to play against NHL apex competition.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Regardless it's a good thing to keep Schwartz away from him.


Should find an ex hof goalie to coach not a bad ex goalie it makes sense. Just because Shwartz read a lot of books doesn't make him a good goalie coach. Some things can only come from experience obviously!
Every other trade or skill in the world one wants to learn from a master. Why would goalie be different.

I don't get it.
Campbell will learn from Legace how to be a mediocre goalie but I guess better than a bad goalie.

Being a good goalie also doesnt guarantee that they're a good goalie coach.

 

[ujju2]

Some of the elite goalie coaches never played in the NHL. Francois Allaire, Mitch Korn, Ian Clark. Having good raw putty to work with is a critical consideration. Campbell's worked with a ton of coaches and regrettable the mental component of playing this brutal position re-occurs and sinks the consistency in performance demanded by the hardest, most unforgiving position likely in professional sports.

Jack Campbell needs to conquer the space between his ears is a tough reality. This team needs him and hopefully an AHL reset can help him retain the confidence, resiliency and coping skills needed to play against NHL apex competition.

Wonder if the mental coach Holtby used to work with would be able to help. Clearly did wonders for Holtby.

 

[Hockeylife2018]

Being a good goalie also doesnt guarantee that they're a good goalie coach.

Agreed, I'm all about how well a goalie coach can coach, regardless of what they've done as a player

Having said that schwartz was both a terrible goalie AND coach

 

[TB12]

Wonder if the mental coach Holtby used to work with would be able to help. Clearly did wonders for Holtby.

John Stephenson was credited by Holtby when he won the Cup and is a local product doing some very cool and innovative work with eye tracking and training.

 

[ujju2]

John Stephenson was credited by Holtby when he won the Cup and is a local product doing some very cool and innovative work with eye tracking and training.

Yup. I was always a huge Holtby fan so I remember reading a lot about Stevenson's work. Would be worth a shot imo.

 

[guymez]

Well if you expect a goalie to be better than 0.917sv% on average that is expecting a lot. Yes it is at the AHL level but his team was badly outshot and he gave them a chance to win. 2 of the guys that beat him were Wright and Lind, 2 pretty good talents IMO.

Well...I hope Skinner gets this kind of leeway from the fans on here moving forward.
Unlike Campbelll...Skinner has actually earned it.

 

[foshizzle]

Jack Campbell is a $25M asset?

Yes, he is. 5x5 makes him a 25M asset

Regardless it's a good thing to keep Schwartz away from him.


Should find an ex hof goalie to coach not a bad ex goalie it makes sense. Just because Shwartz read a lot of books doesn't make him a good goalie coach. Some things can only come from experience obviously!
Every other trade or skill in the world one wants to learn from a master. Why would goalie be different.

I don't get it.
Campbell will learn from Legace how to be a mediocre goalie but I guess better than a bad goalie.

Oh I agree

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Well...I hope Skinner gets this kind of leeway from the fans on here moving forward.
Unlike Campbelll...Skinner has actually earned it.

If he gets more 0.917sv% games he certainly should. He's had exactly 4 games above that benchmark this season in 14 games or 29% of his games. Campbell had 1 game above that benchmark here in 5 games or 20% of his games. You'd like to see your goalies get around 1/2 their games at or above that mark ideally.

 

[foshizzle]

The new coach bump for Campbell is going to be huge when he gets back. He didnt have no trust in Woody. Woody sunk him

You know what, I was thinking about this too. Woody clearly had no time for Jack and I’m sure that played into his mental state

 

[Bryanbryoil]

You know what, I was thinking about this too. Woody clearly had no time for Jack and I’m sure that played into his mental state

Yes but Schwartz is still here and supposedly making the calls in terms of who plays so there's that too.

 

[guymez]

Yes, he is. 5x5 makes him a 25M asset

I think you are confusing an asset with a liability.
Jack Campbell is not an asset. Thats why trading him involves a 100% cap dump.

Maybe he can be an asset one day but its unlikely.

 

[guymez]

If he gets more 0.917sv% games he certainly should. He's had exactly 4 games above that benchmark this season in 14 games or 29% of his games. Campbell had 1 game above that benchmark here in 5 games or 20% of his games. You'd like to see your goalies get around 1/2 their games at or above that mark ideally.

I agree with the benchmark however it only matters when the sample size is large enough. I would also suggest that sv% is not at all independent of defensive play. Skinner didnt just play well last game...Skinner played well in large part due to the fact that the defensive shit show in front of him drastically improved for a game.
Just imagine being the last line of defence (a goalie) on a team that doesnt bother to play defence. Players running all over the place chasing the puck...missing assignments...not bothering to block the seam passes or get in the shooting lanes. Playing horrible gap control.
Just a free for all.
That is an impossible job.
Thats what has been taking place in front of every Oilers goalie most games so far this season.

So for me until the team can play consistent defence last season matters more.
Skinner gained a lot of leeway last season. Campbell dropped the ball (multiple times) and Skinner (a raw rookie) picked up the ball and ran with it. Skinner was exceptional in the latter half of the season.
Now towards the end of the playoffs Skinner was worn down and that is not on him at all.
That being said...many posters on here wrongly put that squarely at Skinners feet.

Skinner has struggled this season but (not only is he being hung out to dry by the lack of team defence) once again he gets NO veteran help at all from the $5M man Jack Campbell. Skinner is on his own again. Once again Jack Campbell has f*cked things up so bad they he had to be sent down the AHL.

Now (for some odd reason) its become anybody but Skinner for a lot of posters.

IMO if there is a goalie that is likely to turn things around...its Skinner....not Campbell. If the team is focusing resources (coaching) on the guy they think has more value to this organization then that IMO is just smart business.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I agree with the benchmark however it only matters when the sample size is large enough. I would also suggest that sv% is not at all independent of defensive play. Skinner didnt just play well last game...Skinner played well in large part due to the fact that the defensive shit show in front of him drastically improved for a game.
Just imagine being the last line of defence (a goalie) on a team that doesnt bother to play defence. Players running all over the place chasing the puck...missing assignments...not bothering to block the seam passes or get in the shooting lanes. Playing horrible gap control.
Just a free for all.
That is an impossible job.
Thats what has been taking place in front of every Oilers goalie most games so far this season.

So for me until the team can play consistent defence last season matters more.
Skinner gained a lot IMO last season. Campbell dropped the ball (multiple times) and Skinner (a raw rookie) picked up the ball and ran with it. Skinner was exceptional in the latter half of the season.
Now towards the end of the playoffs Skinner was worn down and that is not on him at all.
That being said...many posters on here wrongly put that squarely at Skinners feet.

Skinner has struggled this season but (not only is he being hung out to dry by the lack of team defence) once again he gets NO veteran help at all from the $5M man Jack Campbell. Skinner is on his own again. Once again Jack Campbell has f*cked things up so bad they he had to be sent down the AHL.

Now its become anybody but Skinner for a lot of posters.

IMO if there is a goalie that is likely to turn things around...its Skinner....not Campbell. If the team is focusing resources (coaching) on the guy they think has more value to this organization then that IMO is just smart business.

Smart business would be trying to get both going because unless the goalie is a Vasilevsky, Brodeur or Hasek you will need 2 goalies.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Hold on, so the coach Campbell worked with over the off-season that resulted in Campbell playing so poorly he is now playing in the AHL, that's the guy that Campbell is asking to work with to improve? Am I missing something?

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Hold on, so the coach Campbell worked with over the off-season that resulted in Campbell playing so poorly he is now playing in the AHL, that's the guy that Campbell is asking to work with to improve? Am I missing something?

Not sure, it's definitely mental, maybe as the struggles mounted he abandoned everything he did in the summer, back to bad habits.

Doesn't really matter, imo, Campbell probably isn't salvageable

 

[guymez]

Smart business would be trying to get both going because unless the goalie is a Vasilevsky, Brodeur or Hasek you will need 2 goalies.

Its not like they left Jack high and dry.
There are resources for him down in Bakersfield but the focus should be with the Oilers...not with Bakersfield.
Once again an almost rookie goalie in Skinner has no vet help because the vet (once again) shit the bed.
It makes sense that you need to give Skinner max support on the NHL side of things.

So especially considering the circumstances the main coaches should be working with the current NHL goalies...not the farm team goalies.
I just dont see the problem here. Its exactly what I would do if I were in charge.

I also wouldnt be bringing Campbell back up until after Christmas. Let him make sure that his game has recovered so you dont have to worry about him costing the team like he did last season.