Confirmed with Link: Oilers Do Not Match Broberg ($4.58M X2) & Holloway ($2.29M x 2) Offer Sheets | Oilers acquire STL 3rd '28 & Paul Fischer for Futures

[Broberg Speed]

let's play the "your team is in cap crunch territory game" where your favorite NHL team is up against the cap ceiling


round 1
Broberg, Philip Cap Hit $4,580,917 x 2yrs = $9,161,834 vs Stecher, Troy Cap Hit $787,500 x 2yrs = $1,575,000
winner: Troy Stecher


round 2
Holloway, Dylan Cap Hit $2,290,457 x 2yrs = $4,580,914 vs Savoie, Matthew Cap Hit $886,666 x 3yrs = $2,659,998 (that's an extra year contestants)
winner: Matthew Savoie

if you chose correctly both times you receive a bonus 2nd & 3rd rounder

 

[Drivesaitl]

Waiving isn't the same as trading a player.

Just answered my own questions. The wording on the CBA is clearer than many have postulated.

The Prior Club, within seven (7) days after36ARTICLE 10 10.3-10.3the date it receives the Offer Sheet, may exercise or not exercise its Right of First Refusal, whichshall have the legal consequence set forth below. Once an Offer Sheet for a Restricted FreeAgent has been received by the Prior Club, the Prior Club may not Trade or otherwise Assign itsRight of First Refusal for such Restricted Free Agent.


The key words being the prior club "may not trade or otherwise assign" the player. Clearly waiving the player would be "otherwise assigning"

So that the whole speculation of the lowetide thread was complete bunk as its not allowed in first place. just as I thought.

The CBA wording though is careless. its spelled out completely in a clause A, and not in a clause B. But the ruling is quite clear. People have carelessly read the CBA document thinking that only a trade is prohibited. Trade AND reassigning is prohibited for a one year period as per the CBA.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Interesting. NHLEdge show different results:

Desharnais
Top Speed: 22.91 (82 percentile)
His burst speed is mainly in the 18-20 MPH range

Broberg
Top Speed: 22:50 (63 percentile)
His burst speed is mainly in the 18-20 MHL range

Stetcher
Top Speed: 21.53 (below 50 percentile)
His burst speed is mainly in the 18-20 MPH range

Maybe the smaller guy looks faster versus the bigger, long stride defenders.

I love the concept, but NHL Edge's skating numbers should be taken with a grain of salt.

It shows Vinny as having a higher top speed than Kulak or Nurse. Plus Ceci also being right there with them. The old starting 6 are all also within 1 mph of eachother when it comes to top speed... It's just not reliable data.

Ranked

Vinny
22.91 top speed with 29 bursts over 20mph

Kulak
22.85 top with 81 bursts

Nurse
22.68 top with 94 bursts

Ceci
22.56 top with 62 bursts

Bouchard
21.96 top with 75 bursts

Ekholm
21.92 top with 27 bursts

Stecher
21.53 top with 31 busts (54games)

 

[Arpeggio]

I'm kinda on the let both guys go train today. I feel like we like the idea of both players, but giving them these contracts based on their results is a massive risk. Broberg I'm 100% out on, I don't think you can sign that contract. Holloway I'm 50/50 on, but is his production really irreplaceable? What do we think Savoie or Lavoie do over a full NHL season next year?

Also if Holloway is a 40 point guy, which I think many agree would be a solid year for him, are you not able to just pick up a similar player for the third round draft pick at the deadline? It's not like we're talking about a first line player here.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

St. Louis will likely be trading their 1st or more to San Jose for Broberg haha

It's kind of a win win for San Jose and Edmonton

In which case we can cut out the middle man and say "give us a 1st, we don't match on Broberg, and we will return your 2nd"

 

[oobga]

I don't need to imagine it though. NHLEdge had them tops in playoff ozone time at 93 percentile.

What I've asked people who claim luck, NHL Final level goaltending results, and other stuff is to benchmark the Broberg playoff data points against the d-corp of Tampa, Boston and Rangers who were previous cannon fodder to the playoff 93 percentile offensive zone buzz saw. Let's compare and draw conclusions from real data.

Regarding the information about Broberg, I've listed two years of situational usage that can inform about the player. Not included is his stellar AHL season in which he finally received stable ice-time, important situational play, and actual trust to play through mistakes. He killed it. And he leveraged the learning, confidence, and ability to jump into NHL Final 4 competition including keeping his head above water against Florida's high o-zone, physical, relentless forecheck style of play.

Now because of misreading the market, the Oilers have painted themselves into a corner with a margin call on their only 2 NHL ready, prime year young talent.

Hypothetically, I'd pose a question of which organization has a better read on identifying and building blueline talent. St. Louis has shown a pretty good record with their Cup defense built on size, skill and depth. Oilers have been spotty with having to go to market to build up a still largely average defense.

What we have for NHL time, IMO, is not nearly enough to make a call on a player. And I still would not make a 4.5M call on a 1.101 PDO in 10 playoff games and the scattered low expectations largely sheltered previous regular season time. You're far more bullish on the kid than me, and that's fair. There are ways to be positive about him, and ways to still be very skeptical. And now we're stuck having to choose because of Armstrong.

I do think the Blues have lost their touch a bit with D. All in Krug, Leddy and Faulk, meh. In a position where they have to fill their LHD with middle finger to our org and a fat overpay. Armstrong in general seems to be getting stale, and what is Chia even doing there? hehe.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm kinda on the let both guys go train today. I feel like we like the idea of both players, but giving them these contracts based on their results is a massive risk. Broberg I'm 100% out on, I don't think you can sign that contract. Holloway I'm 50/50 on, but is his production really irreplaceable? What do we think Savoie or Lavoie do over a full NHL season next year?

Also if Holloway is a 40 point guy, which I think many agree would be a solid year for him, are you not able to just pick up a similar player for the third round draft pick at the deadline? It's not like we're talking about a first line player here.

You can probably sign a 40 point player in Kubalik right now, lol. The question is more about a bottom 6 that is suddenly very old looking and lacks some speed. A 3rd doesn't guarantee you a speedy player with upside to grow.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Klef, Petry, Nurse all did well in their first full year of playing.

Were they making 4.5 mil on a contender where cap space matters?

 

[Drivesaitl]

St Louis there a grenade at the Oilers. Oilers manage it just fine. Deters future offer sheets and players from signing them


Nope, none.


Nope. Just doing what the league allows.


It doesn’t though. You are allowed to place players on waivers.

This is all false. Its all clearly worded in clause A. Right of first refusal, Page 35.

https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/CBA.pdf

Offer Sheet and First Refusal Procedures.(a) When a Restricted Free Agent receives an offer to sign an SPC from any Club(the "New Club") other than his Prior Club, which offer the Player desires to accept, he shallgive to the Prior Club, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereto, a completed certificate substantiallyin the form of Exhibit 6 attached hereto (the "Offer Sheet"), signed by the Restricted Free Agentand the New Club, which shall contain the "Principal Terms" (as defined below) as well as allother terms of compensation of the New Club's offer. The Prior Club, within seven (7) days after36ARTICLE 10 10.3-10.3the date it receives the Offer Sheet, may exercise or not exercise its Right of First Refusal, whichshall have the legal consequence set forth below. Once an Offer Sheet for a Restricted FreeAgent has been received by the Prior Club, the Prior Club may not Trade or otherwise Assign itsRight of First Refusal for such Restricted Free Agent.


So there it is. All the side discussion on waiving Broberg after exercising Right of First refusal is for not. Its not allowed under the CBA.

One would think all those writers professionally writing and podcasting about hockey would've bothered to check carefully with the CBA. Falled on a punter to dispel this.

 

[Zoupa]

How would waiving Broberg work as how could they guarantee San Jose gets to pick him up? I have no idea how waivers works.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I still can't see any reason to do this. What gain is there for the Oilers in this?

A pro team shouldn't be making decisions just on basis of revenge.

I don't get the primary gain here.

Better assets?

 

[Arpeggio]

You can probably sign a 40 point player in Kubalik right now, lol. The question is more about a bottom 6 that is suddenly very old looking and lacks some speed. A 3rd doesn't guarantee you a speedy player with upside to grow.

Yeah the mix takes a bit of a hit to start the season for sure, and losing him definitely could hurt in a couple of years. But Holloway hasn't blown the doors off either, he was pretty suspect up until the playoffs.

I just think yes, the team will be old as balls, but if you switch Broberg out for Barrie or Schultz, and then use the picks to replace Holloway, you easily could have a better team over the next two seasons than you would've with Broberg and Holloway at those numbers.

I do think they'll end up matching Holloway though.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

This is all false. Its all clearly worded in clause A. Right of first refusal, Page 35.

https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/CBA.pdf

Offer Sheet and First Refusal Procedures.(a) When a Restricted Free Agent receives an offer to sign an SPC from any Club(the "New Club") other than his Prior Club, which offer the Player desires to accept, he shallgive to the Prior Club, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereto, a completed certificate substantiallyin the form of Exhibit 6 attached hereto (the "Offer Sheet"), signed by the Restricted Free Agentand the New Club, which shall contain the "Principal Terms" (as defined below) as well as allother terms of compensation of the New Club's offer. The Prior Club, within seven (7) days after36ARTICLE 10 10.3-10.3the date it receives the Offer Sheet, may exercise or not exercise its Right of First Refusal, whichshall have the legal consequence set forth below. Once an Offer Sheet for a Restricted FreeAgent has been received by the Prior Club, the Prior Club may not Trade or otherwise Assign itsRight of First Refusal for such Restricted Free Agent.


So there it is. All the side discussion on waiving Broberg after exercising Right of First refusal is for not. Its not allowed under the CBA.

You’re aware that this is talking about the 7 days the oilers have to match right?

It’s saying we can’t currently trade or waive him.

 

[Soundwave]

Just answered my own questions. The wording on the CBA is clearer than many have postulated.

The Prior Club, within seven (7) days after36ARTICLE 10 10.3-10.3the date it receives the Offer Sheet, may exercise or not exercise its Right of First Refusal, whichshall have the legal consequence set forth below. Once an Offer Sheet for a Restricted FreeAgent has been received by the Prior Club, the Prior Club may not Trade or otherwise Assign itsRight of First Refusal for such Restricted Free Agent.


The key words being the prior club "may not trade or otherwise assign" the player. Clearly waiving the player would be "otherwise assigning"

So that the whole speculation of the lowetide thread was complete bunk as its not allowed in first place. just as I thought.

The CBA wording though is careless. its spelled out completely in a clause A, and not in a clause B. But the ruling is quite clear. People have carelessly read the CBA document thinking that only a trade is prohibited. Trade AND reassigning is prohibited for a one year period as per the CBA.

That's tricky because I don't think they can stipulate that you can't waive a player. Like for what period of time? Forever? Unless a player has a NMC, you can waive any player.

We could waive Stuart Skinner or Arvidsson tomorrow for example.

"otherwise assign its right of first refusal" we'd have to know exactly what that means, but I don't see how it can mean you're not allowed to ever waive the player. How is that even supposed to work.

 

[Oilhawks]

“But…what if I disguised this trade as a waiver claim?”

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

This is all false. Its all clearly worded in clause A. Right of first refusal, Page 35.

https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/public/ext/CBA.pdf

Offer Sheet and First Refusal Procedures.(a) When a Restricted Free Agent receives an offer to sign an SPC from any Club(the "New Club") other than his Prior Club, which offer the Player desires to accept, he shallgive to the Prior Club, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereto, a completed certificate substantiallyin the form of Exhibit 6 attached hereto (the "Offer Sheet"), signed by the Restricted Free Agentand the New Club, which shall contain the "Principal Terms" (as defined below) as well as allother terms of compensation of the New Club's offer. The Prior Club, within seven (7) days after36ARTICLE 10 10.3-10.3the date it receives the Offer Sheet, may exercise or not exercise its Right of First Refusal, whichshall have the legal consequence set forth below. Once an Offer Sheet for a Restricted FreeAgent has been received by the Prior Club, the Prior Club may not Trade or otherwise Assign itsRight of First Refusal for such Restricted Free Agent.


So there it is. All the side discussion on waiving Broberg after exercising Right of First refusal is for not. Its not allowed under the CBA.

One would think all those writers professionally writing and podcasting about hockey would've bothered to check carefully with the CBA. Falled on a punter to dispel this.

It says we can’t waive him during the 7 day offer sheet period it doesn’t say we can’t decide to waive him after matching the offer.

At least that’s how I read it.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

What we have for NHL time, IMO, is not nearly enough to make a call on a player. And I still would not make a 4.5M call on a 1.101 PDO in 10 playoff games and the scattered low expectations largely sheltered previous regular season time. You're far more bullish on the kid than me, and that's fair. There are ways to be positive about him, and ways to still be very skeptical. And now we're stuck having to choose because of Armstrong.

I do think the Blues have lost their touch a bit with D. All in Krug, Leddy and Faulk, meh. In a position where they have to fill their LHD with middle finger to our org and a fat overpay. Armstrong in general seems to be getting stale, and what is Chia even doing there? hehe.

I shared context of his NHL sample play over multiple seasons which showed promised a month into his first year North American play in a lineup missing two veteran LD (Keith and Nurse). Prior to the Ekholm deal, he had a strong 10+ game run with fellow kiddy blue liner Bouchard. Notably both situations played on his natural shooting side. Exception snapshots like in year one a 22 minute big all situational play performance in Calgary playing right side due to Barrie's injury.

What I didn't include is the reality of killing his AHL demotion with mid-twenty toi all situational play including strong point production. A game high of low-mid 30 minutes reported. Critically most success coming on his natural shooting side.

He jumped into NHL Playoff Final 4 competition after missing a month of on-ice performance and delivered on his off-shooting side. That's exceedingly rare to do and this contribution was noted by his coach and truth speaker Ekholm, to name two. Ability to perform at the highest level of competition is a solid indicator of ability and latent potential.

St. Louis blew their own free agency defenseman situation letting Peter Angel walk out the door and then reacting in the market overpay to pick up Krug, hoping to extend their team's decade long success. Good example to hold on homegrown defensemen. However they built a championship level, league top d-corp via draft and solid trading. Edmonton's track record is largely forced to trade or go to market, both with high cost.

The Oilers now have to choose on their two young, entering prime years pedigree NHL talent because they took their eye off the ball of market conditions and the way it was always done.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That's tricky because I don't think they can stipulate that you can't waive a player. Unless a player has a NMC, you can waive any player.

We could waive Stuart Skinner or Arvidsson tomorrow for example.

"otherwise assign its right of first refusal" we'd have to know exactly what that means, but I don't see how it can mean you're not allowed to ever waive the player. How is that even supposed to work.

It says right in the CBA that no trade or reassignment is permitted. I linked the CBA, quoted the CBA, and gave page number for all to read. Its clear as day not permitted to waive the player after Right of refusal. (offer sheet matching)

 

[Soundwave]

It says we can’t waive him him during the 7 day offer sheet period not if we decide to waive him after matching the offer.

At least that’s how I read it.

That would make more sense.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

It says right in the CBA that no trade or reassignment is permitted. I linked the CBA, quoted the CBA, and gave page number for all to read. Its clear as day not permitted to waive the player after Right of refusal. (offer sheet matching)

It’s clear as day that this is talking about the 7 day period we have to match.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You’re aware that this is talking about the 7 days the oilers have to match right?

It’s saying we can’t currently trade or waive him.

Its again as I said carelessly worded. and clear as mud. Clause A says can't trade or reassigning a player. Clause B fails to mention reassigning, and only mentions can't trade player when I think clearly both are implied and in the gist of the document as worded.

In anycase the wording would give ample cause for the league to cancel such a deal.

Again I maintain the CBA is carelessly worded. Unprofessional really. Should be better spelled out.

Fair point in anycase.

 

[Soundwave]

It says right in the CBA that no trade or reassignment is permitted. I linked the CBA, quoted the CBA, and gave page number for all to read. Its clear as day not permitted to waive the player after Right of refusal. (offer sheet matching)

The part you're citing only applies for the 7 day period, I don't think it tells you what you can/can't do for the duration of the contract.

As far as I know the only way to prevent yourself from being waived outside of a offer sheet week as a player is to have a NMC, which Broberg would not have in his contract. We know the 1 year trade rule is a stipulation but I haven't seen any other stipulation about what you can do with a player waiver wise after matching.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It says we can’t waive him during the 7 day offer sheet period it doesn’t say we can’t decide to waive him after matching the offer.

At least that’s how I read it.

Its carelessly worded. Clause A and B of the document should be saying the same thing and its the spirt of it implied. Agreed with the bolded, in that its subject to contention as worded. But I think clear enough to see what NHL ruling (at least specific to Oilers) would be.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Its again as I said carelessly worded. and clear as mud. Clause A says can't trade or reassigning a player. Clause B fails to mention reassigning, and only mentions can't trade player when I think clearly both are implied and in the gist of the document as worded.

In anycase the wording would give ample cause for the league to cancel such a deal.

Again I maintain the CBA is carelessly worded. Unprofessional really. Should be better spelled out.

Fair point in anycase.

The nhl also loves to interpret the CBA differently depending on the team

It’s not saying the same thing on purpose though, when an offer sheet is out that asset is essentially frozen

 

[Canovin]

How would waiving Broberg work as how could they guarantee San Jose gets to pick him up? I have no idea how waivers works.

Last place team get first dips