Speculation: Offseason Thread XVII: Trade a spade for a jade

[Tawnos]

Stralman wanted 4 mil a year and never even got a phone call. As I said We gave it to Boyle had very little to do with Girardi.

I remember reading that he wanted a reasonable cap hit, but wanted it for 5 years. He was looking for stability. It was the term, and not the cap hit, that caused the Rangers to move on.

Girardi was simply not part of the decision.

 

[Kovalev27]

According to stralman he never even got an offer but was looking for 4 and 4 on a hometown discount.

Rangers wanted Boyle they liked short term and they wanted offense that stralman never showed us. Like I said calculated risk that failed. But they never even made an offer.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Ok I know I kinda started the stralman nonsense again, but I think it's time to shut it down again....
At this point why don't we just consider why we didn't jump on the Tyler seguin train and get him when he was available... Can't change the past

 

[silverfish]

According to stralman he never even got an offer but was looking for 4 and 4 on a hometown discount.

Rangers wanted Boyle they liked short term and they wanted offense that stralman never showed us. Like I said calculated risk that failed. But they never even made an offer.

If only there were a way to analyze the game of hockey where maybe we could make these calculated risks less risky

[this post is intended to be light-hearted]

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Is this the reminisce/Regret thread?

LOL. Seems like it.

Funny how thoughtless personnel moves stick with one. Like management broke the faith.

Every Rangers game - or every Tampa Bay game - I'm reminded again.

"The past isn't dead - it isn't even past."

C'mon Mr. Gorton.

 

[haohmaru]

Stralman wanted 4 mil a year and never even got a phone call. As I said We gave it to Boyle had very little to do with Girardi.

The Rangers, to my knowledge, have never really commented on it other than AV saying it was about "cap issues". I think it was more about term and NMC/NTC than it was about $/yr

 

[Savant]

I remember reading that he wanted a reasonable cap hit, but wanted it for 5 years. He was looking for stability. It was the term, and not the cap hit, that caused the Rangers to move on.

Girardi was simply not part of the decision.

I don't believe that.

They pretty clearly picked Girardi over Stralman. They were both hitting UFA that summer. They were able to sign Girardi midseason and then they stopped talking to Stralman. Then Stralman had that incredible playoffs and outplayed the offer the Rangers made. The rest is history.

They were going to get Boyle either way. That was their top target/Sather man crush that summer.

 

[RangerBoy]

Can Honka contribute?

You are downgrading from Zuccarello to Nichushkin and Klein to Honka.

We didn't really downgrade when we traded Brassard for Zibanejad. We got a player back that we know can contribute right away.

Trading Zucc for Nuke + Honka. Maybe. What are you going to do if you trade Klein and Honka/Skjei/McIlrath all struggle? Throw Girardi back on the top pairing? Force one of them to play over their heads and ruin their development?

Trading Klein when your only other option on RD is Girardi and you have 3 rookies on your right side is about as asinine as it gets. It might as well be a rebuild because the won't go very far. Keep Klein at least until the deadline and see who is ready to play where.

And no, they likely aren't winning the cup. Neither are 29 other teams. With that being said this team isn't nearly as bad as you make it sound.

Can Vesey and Buchnevich contribute starting this season? They have never played a single second of pro hockey and the Rangers are looking at them to fill top 6-9 roles on this team. You guys are so fixated on this season while Gorton will be playing two rookies in their top 6-9. It's not only about 2016-17. It can't be. Gorton would have dumped Girardi or Staal in a buyout to free up cap space and a roster spot. Kevin Klein is a 3rd pair D on a championship level team. He is not anything more than that. Honka has played two full pro seasons. He is more ready to contribute than Vesey and Buchnevich.

 

[TheTakedown]

I don't believe that.

They pretty clearly picked Girardi over Stralman. They were both hitting UFA that summer. They were able to sign Girardi midseason and then they stopped talking to Stralman. Then Stralman had that incredible playoffs and outplayed the offer the Rangers made. The rest is history.

They were going to get Boyle either way. That was their top target/Sather man crush that summer.

This was the primary issue.

The other issue was the organization resigning Girardi on the Honor system.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Can Vesey and Buchnevich contribute starting this season? They have never played a single second of pro hockey and the Rangers are looking at them to fill top 6-9 roles on this team. You guys are so fixated on this season while Gorton will be playing two rookies in their top 6-9. It's not only about 2016-17. It can't be. Gorton would have dumped Girardi or Staal in a buyout to free up cap space and a roster spot. Kevin Klein is a 3rd pair D on a championship level team. He is not anything more than that. Honka has played two full pro seasons. He is more ready to contribute than Vesey and Buchnevich.

Amazing how many people conveniently overlook this point. Gorton has done an AMAZING job positioning the team for 2017-2018. About the only thing that could screw it up would be a shortsighted move geared towards the current season. Stay patient, execute a couple more deals over the next 8-10 months... This organization could be set for half a decade.

(And the funny thing is that in the interim they'll still be much more fun to watch than last year's sinking ship.)

 

[McSauer]

Amazing how many people conveniently overlook this point. Gorton has done an AMAZING job positioning the team for 2017-2018. About the only thing that could screw it up would be a shortsighted move geared towards the current season. Stay patient, execute a couple more deals over the next 8-10 months... This organization could be set for half a decade.

(And the funny thing is that in the interim they'll still be much more fun to watch than last year's sinking ship.)

Totally correct, and I think the best thing about this upcoming season is that with luck and right players being hot in the playoffs (which I do see us making), I can see this team making a run for it. Really looking forward to this season and i absolutely LOVE that every is sleeping on us and already counting us out...keep it up.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Can Vesey and Buchnevich contribute starting this season? They have never played a single second of pro hockey and the Rangers are looking at them to fill top 6-9 roles on this team. You guys are so fixated on this season while Gorton will be playing two rookies in their top 6-9. It's not only about 2016-17. It can't be. Gorton would have dumped Girardi or Staal in a buyout to free up cap space and a roster spot. Kevin Klein is a 3rd pair D on a championship level team. He is not anything more than that. Honka has played two full pro seasons. He is more ready to contribute than Vesey and Buchnevich.

I don't like the way you responded to me and your supposed to be the adult on the board.

Small correction, Buchnevich has played 170 professional games, counting playoffs, but maybe you were talking about NA Pro games. He has played a lot in the KHL though.

 

[Fitzy]

2 rookies in the top 9...

07-08 - Dubinsky, Dawes (Dawes starts in AHL)
10-11- Stepan, Zuccarello (Zucc starts in AHL)

RB is right, that's pretty unusual of late for NYR.

 

[Ola]

RB- I agree on Klein for sure, he is definitely not a great D. Think he is getting very overrated. He isn't smart with the puck and pretty tentative defensively.

In this league, given his contract, no doubt he is a very valuable asset. Can be a solid mid/depth D for us, don't mind that one bit. But I wouldn't hesitate to move him in the right move either.

 

[silverfish]

RB- I agree on Klein for sure, he is definitely not a great D. Think he is getting very overrated. He isn't smart with the puck and pretty tentative defensively.

In this league, given his contract, no doubt he is a very valuable asset. Can be a solid mid/depth D for us, don't mind that one bit. But I wouldn't hesitate to move him in the right move either.

We'll be asking a lot from Klein to take the 1RD spot full-time this season (assuming AV doesn't use G there).

Brightside: He's better than G.
Shadyside: He's not a top-pairing guy.

 

[Avery16]

I'm worried about Buchnevichs weight and durability

 

[Ola]

I am sorry, but the "resigning Girardi was the worst move ever"-talk is complete bull ****.

Let's cut the crap, we have had a very good shot at the cup the last -- three -- years. Given how tough it is to win, with 30 teams and the cap, you cannot ask for much more than that. If we dump Callahan and then Girardi before the first Cup run, basically gutting the core of the team, you aren't getting that close.

I can't believe how some can claim that it was a bad move to resign Girardi??? That is downright dishonest by my book. Oh, it's not great to have his contract now? Well that's life. Let's see if he can come back or he will finish it on LTIR. But if you get a shot to make a real run at the Cup in this league, you got to take it. You just can't sit there at home with your keyboard 4 years later claiming that someone made the "worst move ever" because it wasn't enough. That's ridiculous...

 

[Gardner McKay]

We want Gurianov and Honka, with nichuskin as a throw in discounted, so the most we consider adding was a conditional pick, IF he returns from KHL, IF his numbers pan out.

Considered this w/Nash as upgrade on Hemsky, but think using Zuc seals Gurianov which is important; then we start w/Nash and have options to move him as his #s look good.

Zuc, Raanta, Calle Andersson, Halverson and Bernhardt
for
Gurianov, Honka, Nichushkin, cap dump Hemsky. Conditional 2nd rounder in 2019 to NY IF Nic has busted by then




Please stop with the WIN NOW posture that is and has been ruining our club.
Build.
Build some more.
Then MAYBE splurge






I am not sure, but I think the key is the date the contract ends, which I thought was last game played/final SC game, but I have been told ends with new NHL year on July 1, which is after the exp. draft.
so theoretically, IMO has to wait until July 2 to sign.

LV can try to sign him as UFA like anyone else at any time, but his UFA status supersedes team need to protect prior

You surely have to be able to acknowledge that there is other positions for this club aside from strictly rebuild or win now.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm worried about Buchnevichs weight and durability

Weight is overrated, his base is plenty strong and hes not easy to knock off the puck.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The choice was Boyle over Stralman specifically because they got the same amount of money. The Rangers didn't want to give the term Stralman was asking for, even if it was for less money, simple as that.

You remember the cap crunch the Rangers were in at the beginning of this summer? How we had to let Yandle go and couldn't pay a D as much as Boyle was making even if we wanted to?

That's exactly why Stralman was allowed to leave. With him here, the Rangers would have had to trade one of their important forward RFAs again this summer.

Not really. The Rangers needed someone who would replace Richards on the PP as a puck-mover. Stralman did not show he could produce to be valuable on the PP. sure, he had 39 points in his first season in Tampa, but he had only 38 in 3 seasons combined with us.

The narrative that it was Stralman or Boyle doesn't seem to make sense. Sure, we lost Stralman and signed Boyle, but not because we did not want Stralman. It was because there were other needs.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Just to throw two other young RHD out there: would Carolina move Brett Pesce or would boston move Colin Miller?

 

[Gardner McKay]

Not really. The Rangers needed someone who would replace Richards on the PP as a puck-mover. Stralman did not show he could produce to be valuable on the PP. sure, he had 39 points in his first season in Tampa, but he had only 38 in 3 seasons combined with us.

The narrative that it was Stralman or Boyle doesn't seem to make sense. Sure, we lost Stralman and signed Boyle, but not because we did not want Stralman. It was because there were other needs.

If Stralman went to Tampa and played solid defensively but was offensively putrid there as he was with us I don't think there would be this constant pining for us to have signed him.

In hindsight of course it was a mistake but there was no way to know he was going to produce in Tampa the way he has.

Just to throw two other young RHD out there: would Carolina move Brett Pesce or would boston move Colin Miller?

Truth be told I know little to nothing about those players. I am not against acquiring a young RHD like those two guys or Honka. I just don't think this team benefits from trading Klein until we have seen that some of the young guys can really take a step in.

Klein isn't a top pairing defenseman by any means. But at the moment he is by far the best RHD we have in the organization. I would rather trade him after we know that our younger guns have shown they can consistently play top 4 minutes.

Ship him off at the deadline where his cheap contract and solid consistent play for us will likely yield a better return at that point than at any other time from now until the deadline.

 

[Idlerlee]

Weight is overrated, his base is plenty strong and hes not easy to knock off the puck.

I mean, 180 lbs is going to have a very bad time against 225 lbs. Having a strong base is only really helpful if your mass is ample to counter that of a bigger man barelling into you.

But weight is much more an advantage for a defender than a forward. Defenders often rely on not only coverage, but being able to use their muscle to wrestle a player away from the puck.

I wish Nash used his weight more. He's the strongest guy on this team by far when he's moving (yes, stronger than Kreider)

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

If Stralman went to Tampa and played solid defensively but was offensively putrid there as he was with us I don't think there would be this constant pining for us to have signed him.

In hindsight of course it was a mistake but there was no way to know he was going to produce in Tampa the way he has.

Exactly my point. Thanks

 

[Avery16]

Weight is overrated, his base is plenty strong and hes not easy to knock off the puck.

More worried about his lack of weight as could affect his durability over a season than I am it affecting his level of play