Offseason Roster Moves, Rumors, and Discussion

[tunnelvision]

Coaches incentives on this are sometimes better. They are fully focused on what the players are doing right now. So if they play like they did last year, I would expect Evason to know that Voronkov is the much better player. The players will also find ways of telling him who they want to play with.

Chinakhov and Marchenko liked playing with him last year, maybe they will try to suggest a reunion. Especially if language barrier is still a thing for Voronkov, learning a new system with two translators on his side might be easier and faster than without any.

I get what you’re saying but if he doesn’t make the decision that will “gain him respect from a certain part of the fanbase,” how will we know he didn’t make the decision he thought was best and not the one proscribed for him by the GM?

We couldn't know for sure unless they told us specific reason(s) for it. But a scenario where Sillinger -- against Evason's will -- is one of the centers on opening night lineup and Voronkov isn't, does not sound plausible at all, and therefore your question is kind of meaningless to me.

What I don’t want is Evason making decisions with the primary intent of “gaining respect from a certain part of the fanbase.”

Well I wouldn't worry about that too much if I was you.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

We couldn't know for sure unless they told us specific reason(s) for it. But a scenario where Sillinger -- against Evason's will -- is one of the centers on opening night lineup and Voronkov isn't, does not sound plausible at all, and therefore your question is kind of meaningless to me.

Then I guess I don’t understand your post which is fine I’ve been up since 2:45 PT and am currently awaiting a changeover in Vegas while trying to find a coffee line that isn’t 100 people deep.

 

[stevo61]

Yes Sokolov was a fan favorite, we expected him to be signed and were surprised he wasn't. He looked better than most of our prospects so it was not a good feeling to let him go and see him drafted in the second round the next year. Great personality too, we shared a lot of his clips here. We also had a lot of discussions about whether he'd make it with his skating, and that's still a big question mark with him in Ottawa.

More interesting for me - he talks about covid and the opportunity to train full time and how that helped him. I've been arguing that training is better than games for development and Sokolov just gave me another good example. That is around 11:45 for those interested.

I think its way more complicated and player specific with training vs game action for development. Also think a long period like covid gave Sokolov offers up a lot more than what Anaheim was doing with Carlsson. Personally I think that wasnt half as special as people made it out to be. Now if you were going to commit a month or something where they just practice and then train with the staff? Sure. Sitting out the odd game or 2 and getting 1 or 2 extra strength training days? nah

 

[tunnelvision]

Then I guess I don’t understand your post which is fine I’ve been up since 2:45 PT and am currently awaiting a changeover in Vegas while trying to find a coffee line that isn’t 100 people deep.

That earning respect part was meant to be a little joke.

Hopefully there are better options than Starbucks.

 

[NotCommitted]

When Olli Jokinen was traded to Rangers mid season, after a while his TOI dropped a lot - at the urging of the leadership group in NYR who thought he should play more - he finally went to Torts, who was coaching Rangers at the time and asked what he can do to get more minutes. Torts reply was something along the lines of "there's nothing you can do, you seem like a nice a guy but I don't really like your play style and I would've rather kept the player we traded to get you".

That was over 10 years ago but I always find stories like this very interesting, because it's a bit baffling to me how poorly the GM and the coach work together sometimes and how little actual input the coaches might be giving to individual players. It seems a pretty common (and rather sensible) assumption among fans that the players know what the coaches want and what they should be "working at" or how they should be playing, while in truth they often might have no idea. Likewise you might think the GM would give the coach a call on trades like that, but I guess that's not always the case

Granted, Jokinen at that point in his career was a veteran in his early 30s and essentially a rental, so it's not like it was Torts' business to "change his game" at that point. But you'd certainly hope coaches are a bit more hands on with guys who are potentially part of the long term plan.

Anyway, that story just popped into my head from the previous discussion, I really don't think experienced coaches at least let other people dictate what they should be doing. If anything, most of them seem grumpy, stubborn old men who'll rather stick to their guns than let someone give them suggestions

 

[CBJ goalie]

Save the cap space for a goalie, if Elvis doesn't rebound.

 

[Xoggz22]

So with the rumors/news that Waddell is open to "weaponize our cap space" by taking on a player (per Porty, a forward likely a W) with salary from a cap strapped team (or a team looking for more room), I've been trying to look for some candidates.

Here's some names I thought of that we could potentially add and recoup a potential pick for future considerations or something:

Caps: Nic Dowd (1 year, 1.3 million)
Flyers: Nic Deslauries (2 years, 1.75 million per)
Canucks: Pius Suter (1 year, 1.6 million)
Penguins: Lars Eller (1 year, 2.45 million)
Kraken: Brandon Tanev (1 year, 3.5 million, NTC)
Wild: Marcus Johansson (1 year, 2 million, NTC)
Golden Knights: Keegan Kolesar (1 year, 1.4 million)
Preds: Colton Sissons (2 years, 2.8 million)

Non exciting names for sure. There are other guys out there but I did my best to exclude guys who 1. Just signed 2. Had more than 2 years of term, and 3. had NMC/NTC (although I did include some).

I considered throwing Evander Kane on the list, as you could probably get a pretty penny to take the full contract, but I didn't because 1. I'm not sure you want to put a guy with his baggage around a young, bad team. 2. Waddell wants a player who can help us and Kane needs surgery and will miss most of the year.

I was thinking something more dramatic than that listening to GMDW. If there is a team that has players worth keeping and coming due for raises (ie. RFAs or UFAs to keep) and have a contract, say, 2 years, that will prevent them from doing so, is that more what he's thinking. I keep looking at Trouba on the NYR. Big contract, 2 years left but the Rangers have Shesterkin< Miller, Laf and Kakko to name a few. Do they want to keep all? some? Moving $8MM off next year's payroll would help quite a bit. I'm not a big Trouba fan but maybe that's a guy that you could acquire and then move with either retention or next year.

Not saying him, but that's a situation that I think is what Waddell is thinking. Other teams will want to move pieces for deadline deals as well. I think now woudl be the time to strike in such areas. I certainly wouldn't want anything more than 2 years unless we're actually talking about a player that is 25ish and would be a long term piece in a bigger deal that would cost CBJ future CAP money by re-signing them... There are a lot of options I suspect. Will they use the space... that's the big question.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I was thinking something more dramatic than that listening to GMDW. If there is a team that has players worth keeping and coming due for raises (ie. RFAs or UFAs to keep) and have a contract, say, 2 years, that will prevent them from doing so, is that more what he's thinking. I keep looking at Trouba on the NYR. Big contract, 2 years left but the Rangers have Shesterkin< Miller, Laf and Kakko to name a few. Do they want to keep all? some? Moving $8MM off next year's payroll would help quite a bit. I'm not a big Trouba fan but maybe that's a guy that you could acquire and then move with either retention or next year.

Not saying him, but that's a situation that I think is what Waddell is thinking. Other teams will want to move pieces for deadline deals as well. I think now woudl be the time to strike in such areas. I certainly wouldn't want anything more than 2 years unless we're actually talking about a player that is 25ish and would be a long term piece in a bigger deal that would cost CBJ future CAP money by re-signing them... There are a lot of options I suspect. Will they use the space... that's the big question.

The problem with Trouba is you are effectively shutting the door on Jiricek. Not just this year but potentially next year too. That would come with its own share of issues. Is that worth it? I would be interested to see what the rangers would attach to Trouba, but iirc he has a NMC/NTC and wasn’t enthusiastic about getting traded to Detroit this summer.

I think I’d rather just see what Jiricek can do.

But yeah, I think we have lots of potential options out there. But I think it’ll be a forward.

 

[NotWendell]

Save the cap space for a goalie, if Elvis doesn't rebound.

Or we could hire Tanya Harding to kneecap him, put him on LTIR and use the money to get Swayman.

(No, I don't seriously wish him any physical injury)

 

[CBJ goalie]

Prefer to see Elvis rebound, which I think is a possibility with a good coach and a good team structure/D - but if he crashes again, they have to move on with Tarasov and maybe use that cap space.

 

[Xoggz22]

The problem with Trouba is you are effectively shutting the door on Jiricek. Not just this year but potentially next year too. That would come with its own share of issues. Is that worth it? I would be interested to see what the rangers would attach to Trouba, but iirc he has a NMC/NTC and wasn’t enthusiastic about getting traded to Detroit this summer.

I think I’d rather just see what Jiricek can do.

But yeah, I think we have lots of potential options out there. But I think it’ll be a forward.

Was more about the idea than the player. I don't disagree on your point above

 

[VT]

Personally I tend to prefer this year's center lineup to be

Monahan
Jenner
Voronkov
Kuraly

Those are our best centers right now, and they put me at ease defensively without any of the four being great at it. I don't feel the need to bring in anyone. Nic Dowd isn't a big step up in that context. He is a big step up defensively for Sillinger or Fantilli. But the simple solution there is just to not put those kids at center at this point in time. I'm personally not a believer in this misbegotten idea that young centers have to be at center or we're somehow ruining them.

I am not against this roster:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Marchenko (if you so want Kirill to Johnny )
Fantilli - Jenner - K. Johnson
Voronkov - Sillinger - Chinakhov (Dima and Cole could change their spots)
Olivier - Kuraly - Danforth
Pyyhtia (let Malatesta, LDBB and Brindley play a lot of time in Cleveland)


Werenski, Severson
Provorov, Gudbranson
J. Johnson, Jiříček
Harris/Svozil

Tarasov/Greaves

But what with Elvis?

 

[VT]

I think the most important thing will be how Evason will use the players, what the system will be, whether the lines will complement each other, how the defense will work. And most importantly, how the team leaders will play in important moments. It's not important for the players to be there 82 points and above, but to be better in key moments, to withstand the pressure of the opponent. I won't mind if Gaudreau scores around 70 points, as long as he pulls the team in critical moments.

Next, we can join Russian together, but what lines will be next? If

Gaudreau - Monahan - Fantilli
Chinakhov - Voronkov - Marchenko

the third line would be

Sillinger - Jenner - Johnson

and I somehow doubt that Cole and Boone would be the ideal partners for Kent. One yes, both no. We can split the Russians, creating a line

Voronkov - Sillinger - Chinakhov/Marchenko

But it will automatically be the 3rd line (I don't believe Boone will play on the 3rd line), he will get less time, thus not using the potential of the players. About equal time 5v5 TOP 9 would solve it, but, frankly, I don't believe so.

 

[tunnelvision]

Anyone wanna guess which of the current 4th liners (Kuraly, Danforth, Olivier) will be kept beyond this season? They're all pending UFAs.

 

[koteka]

Anyone wanna guess which of the current 4th liners (Kuraly, Danforth, Olivier) will be kept beyond this season? They're all pending UFAs.

I think Kuraly will be traded at the deadline. He is a good vet and has made a Cup run before. I could even see his old team (Boston) having some interest.

I think we keep Olivier. He is a good guy to have as your 12/13 and we can use his toughness.

I think what Danforth does is up to Danforth. He is basically a decent league minimum pickup. He can decide there is just something magical about Ohio as he has played his best hockey here (both in Cincinnati and Columbus) and decide to stay. Or he can chase a Cup or play for his boyhood favorite team.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Anyone wanna guess which of the current 4th liners (Kuraly, Danforth, Olivier) will be kept beyond this season? They're all pending UFAs.

I think they’ll all probably walk but I think the one with the best chance of sticking is Olivier. Strikes me as a guy who’s going to stay in the lineup most nights for Evason.

 

[majormajor]

the third line would be

Sillinger - Jenner - Johnson

and I somehow doubt that Cole and Boone would be the ideal partners for Kent. One yes, both no.

Sillinger hasn't helped any particular linemate but one of the guys that has made it work is KJ. I think in general KJ plays well off of straight line players, we've seen that a lot with creative players, they need the predictable straight line players to read off of.

Anyone wanna guess which of the current 4th liners (Kuraly, Danforth, Olivier) will be kept beyond this season? They're all pending UFAs.

It's tough because they could all return a pick at the deadline, and as much as I'd love a few ~third round picks, I think the team needs to stop the turnover and keep its character veterans. These guys can play hard defensive minutes too. I would try and keep them.

My guess is that one or two are gone at the deadline.

I think they’ll all probably walk but I think the one with the best chance of sticking is Olivier. Strikes me as a guy who’s going to stay in the lineup most nights for Evason.

Every time I can remember that we went for a clean slate fourth line it was a severe downgrade.

I hope we keep some of them, or all three even.

 

[CBJx614]

I think Kuraly will be traded at the deadline. He is a good vet and has made a Cup run before. I could even see his old team (Boston) having some interest.

I think we keep Olivier. He is a good guy to have as your 12/13 and we can use his toughness.

I think what Danforth does is up to Danforth. He is basically a decent league minimum pickup. He can decide there is just something magical about Ohio as he has played his best hockey here (both in Cincinnati and Columbus) and decide to stay. Or he can chase a Cup or play for his boyhood favorite team.

I think Olivier stays as we currently don't have anyone else on the roster who can do what he does.

Danforth was a Jarmo project and I think Waddell moves on unless Danforth solidifies himself on the roster

 

[majormajor]

Danforth was a Jarmo project and I think Waddell moves on unless Danforth solidifies himself on the roster

Danforth is already a lineup regular. Was he even healthy scratched once last year? Not sure what you're asking of him.

His level of play will matter, he's at times been better than a fourth liner and also had stretches towards the end of last year where he was not effective. If I remember correctly he had something like nine goals by December and only one after that.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Anyone wanna guess which of the current 4th liners (Kuraly, Danforth, Olivier) will be kept beyond this season? They're all pending UFAs.

If Kuraly plays well and signs for less than he makes now, it's possible all 3 could be back. It's not a bad 4th line and is easy on the budget.

Olivier's toughness and Danforth's skill level are probably both above 4th liner average in the league. Also-as has been mentioned by others-there's probably a benefit to having longer term hard working vets remain on the team for continuity's sake if nothing else.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

imo both kuraly and danforth are gone via trade at the deadline.

1. there's always a market for useful bottom-six guys
2. there's always a market for cap relief

the jackets could be active in both of those markets (perhaps in the same deal!) thanks to the laine trade.

they could take salary back in a kuraly or danforth deal, meaning that the team getting them would also be getting cap relief for other deadline moves and potentially even the following season.

waddell would be smart to lay the groundwork for a move that double-dips like this (getting extra assets to take on a contract, then flipping that player as a rental the next year) – like what montreal did with monahan.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I think Olivier stays as we currently don't have anyone else on the roster who can do what he does.

Danforth was a Jarmo project and I think Waddell moves on unless Danforth solidifies himself on the roster

Not to mention there was brief buyout rumors for both Olivier and Danforth this summer.

 

[majormajor]

Not to mention there was brief buyout rumors for both Olivier and Danforth this summer.

That was completely implausible, someone was just confused there.

 

[VT]

Sillinger hasn't helped any particular linemate but one of the guys that has made it work is KJ. I think in general KJ plays well off of straight line players, we've seen that a lot with creative players, they need the predictable straight line players to read off of.

Now we will have a new system coach. That will change the transition to offense, the use of players. I have a feeling Cole is going to play great.

If Cole shows his potential, you're right. But playmakers like Kent would be better utilized if they played with snipers like Chinakhov, Fantilli or Marchenko.

 

[majormajor]

If Cole shows his potential, you're right. But playmakers like Kent would be better utilized if they played with snipers like Chinakhov, Fantilli or Marchenko.

Every player would be better off playing with better forwards like that, but I'll disagree that KJ especially would.