Offseason GDT III

[tsanuri]

Agree that they will do something with the money they would have given Lucic, just not sure if it will be a big splash or a couple of smaller signings while leaning on youth and keeping some cap space available.

I think it will be more of the latter as the Kings don't have the space to get into bidding wars with UFA players.

It's not going to just be the money it's expansion now.
Of course there is no confirmation yet but there is plenty of smoke.

DL as well as every other GM will be looking at how to limit exposure.
Which I think sadly means going with our current D unless he can find someone with one year left really cheap.

 

[YP44]

I recently met a Leaf fan in the course of doing business.
He asked what I thought about the #1 overall pick (Auston Matthews) plus a prospect, for Doughty. I responded, how about Muzzin, King and Kempe?

at least the fan recognized what side the plus needed to be on...but barf

 

[kings11]

The guy won't be able to sign for that $4.4MM cap hit he got on his last contract, but is he really going to go for $2MM or less on the open market?

I think it will depend on demand as always but like I've said i just threw numbers out there to see how the total salaries would look and we would have enough cap space to everyone on there...

 

[YP44]

I think it's amusing that fans think the Kings are gonna lose Lucic and Lombardi is just gonna sit on his hands. What the roster looks like now and what it looks like on Opening Night are two totally and unpredictable things. As a fan who went through the good and bad years I enjoy this regime, Dean always seems to pull something out of a hat and at the very least I know he is trying to win another Cup. The same can't be said of the bumbling fools who came before him. As of right now the Kings could lose Lucic to Edmonton or Vancouver and sign a guy like Ladd for less money, maybe, and I'd be just as happy as a fan (and I love Lucic and what he brings to the table).

Just to ad, we are very fortunate that the kings ownership allows DL to go to the cap. Look at Ottawa and Anaheim.

Ottawa is wasting prime years of Ryan and karlsson because their owner will not spend to the cap. So the team will never need a miracle run to win a cup as they do not have the funding to build around these guys.

Anaheim has one of the best you blue lines in the league but will be forced to deal instead of re-signing as they to are working with an internal cap.

The kings have good players in the tail end of their prime (crazy that this team is aging, remember 2012 when LA was young and big), and have the funding to build around those key players.

Something to be thankful for

 

[tsanuri]

Just to ad, we are very fortunate that the kings ownership allows DL to go to the cap. Look at Ottawa and Anaheim.

Ottawa is wasting prime years of Ryan and karlsson because their owner will not spend to the cap. So the team will never need a miracle run to win a cup as they do not have the funding to build around these guys.

Anaheim has one of the best you blue lines in the league but will be forced to deal instead of re-signing as they to are working with an internal cap.

The kings have good players in the tail end of their prime (crazy that this team is aging, remember 2012 when LA was young and big), and have the funding to build around those key players.

Something to be thankful for

I wonder how much of these internal caps are overblown? Both teams mentioned were within 7M of the cap last year. Which put them more than 12M above the floor. So they are both well above the mid-point.

 

[Omni Owl]

I wonder how much of these internal caps are overblown? Both teams mentioned were within 7M of the cap last year. Which put them more than 12M above the floor. So they are both well above the mid-point.

The Ducks could've used that extra 6 or so million for a good player to put them over the top to a Cup final at the very least. I'd be livid if I were Ducks fan right now, specifically at the ownership.

 

[Trolfoli]

I'm calling it now. Brown will have a MONSTER season.



No, really, I'm serious.

I think we've reached a point where Lombardi is tired of patching and we'll see some changes. As in significant roster moves. Not just something like Greene/King/Clifford.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

I wonder how much of these internal caps are overblown? Both teams mentioned were within 7M of the cap last year. Which put them more than 12M above the floor. So they are both well above the mid-point.

Think I read the Ducks owner said he'd be willing to spend more if they won. Hard to win when you're playing $6-8 million short though. That's a top 6 forward/top 4 d-man they could add with that money. Also read the Ducks are losing money every year which is why he's not willing to spend more money.

 

[Trolfoli]

The Ducks could've used that extra 6 or so million for a good player to put them over the top to a Cup final at the very least. I'd be livid if I were Ducks fan right now, specifically at the ownership.

It is beautiful how close they are, and how soon Kesler/Baldy are going to fall apart. Not to mention that Bieksa contract at 4M that looks like it will cost them Vatanen and has a NMC.

 

[YP44]

I wonder how much of these internal caps are overblown? Both teams mentioned were within 7M of the cap last year. Which put them more than 12M above the floor. So they are both well above the mid-point.

I did not look into what contracts on Sens and Ducks are ones where the cap hit > actual salary.
Those types of deals are always of value for budget clubs and help bridge the gap you are talking about.

Like Omni Owl I would be pissed if I was a Duck fan. That team is deep and good, and ownership could have gotten them over the hump (could have also lost out anyway). I would rather a team go for it.

As a Kings fan I am happy that Anaheim is a budget team.

 

[tsanuri]

The Ducks could've used that extra 6 or so million for a good player to put them over the top to a Cup final at the very least. I'd be livid if I were Ducks fan right now, specifically at the ownership.

Think I read the Ducks owner said he'd be willing to spend more if they won. Hard to win when you're playing $6-8 million short though. That's a top 6 forward/top 4 d-man they could add with that money. Also read the Ducks are losing money every year which is why he's not willing to spend more money.

The Ducks outside their first 10 games where they were abysmal had one of the best records in the league.
If I was the GM and coach I wouldn't have wanted to change anything. They just ended up falling apart once they reached the playoffs. Which guess what so did we. And we spent over the cap. So that isn't any guarantee.

 

[YP44]

I'm calling it now. Brown will have a MONSTER season.



No, really, I'm serious.

I think we've reached a point where Lombardi is tired of patching and we'll see some changes. As in significant roster moves. Not just something like Greene/King/Clifford.

Define "Monster". I think he will have an improved season but his best days are still well behind him.

 

[tsanuri]

I did not look into what contracts on Sens and Ducks are ones where the cap hit > actual salary.
Those types of deals are always of value for budget clubs and help bridge the gap you are talking about.

Like Omni Owl I would be pissed if I was a Duck fan. That team is deep and good, and ownership could have gotten them over the hump (could have also lost out anyway). I would rather a team go for it.

As a Kings fan I am happy that Anaheim is a budget team.

From what I can see their actual payroll is about 1M more than their cap.
And Ottawa is almost even.
Should add as more players are on contracts from the new CBA these numbers will be closer and closer.
Can't have inflated numbers.

 

[YP44]

From what I can see their actual payroll is about 1M more than their cap.
And Ottawa is almost even.
Should add as more players are on contracts from the new CBA these numbers will be closer and closer.
Can't have inflated numbers.

You can just not to the extremes that they once were. jeff Carter's deal is a good old one where he last year he will make $2M with a $5.27M hit. Quick's tails off too. In comparison Kopitar's deal starts out paying $14M a year but goes to $7M the last couple of years on the deal. So it still will happen

 

[Kingspiracy]

I was just looking over some past trades, and was looking at the Boston deals. Lucic and Hamilton traded on the same day for similar returns. I know Hamilton had a pretty average year for the flames, but did we get the wrong guy?

 

[tsanuri]

You can just not to the extremes that they once were. jeff Carter's deal is a good old one where he last year he will make $2M with a $5.27M hit. Quick's tails off too. In comparison Kopitar's deal starts out paying $14M a year but goes to $7M the last couple of years on the deal. So it still will happen

And Kopitar's deal has the max spread you can have. 50% over the total contract.
If you want one of the most extreme examples that would be Weber's contract. Where is starts at 14M a year and ends with 1M for the final 3. To come in just under 8M on cap hit.

 

[YP44]

I was just looking over some past trades, and was looking at the Boston deals. Lucic and Hamilton traded on the same day for similar returns. I know Hamilton had a pretty average year for the flames, but did we get the wrong guy?

at the time of the trade pretty much everyone was saying how well Lucic would fit in LA. Hind site is 20/20, but it was seen as a good get at the time

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Hamilton really didn't help Calgary all that much and is very weak in his own end of the ice. Funny thing is many thought Calgary had one of the best bluelines in the league, and as it turned out, their performance was among the worst in the league.

 

[Kingspiracy]

at the time of the trade pretty much everyone was saying how well Lucic would fit in LA. Hind site is 20/20, but it was seen as a good get at the time

I liked the Lucic trade, and still like the player. Just wondering if a big 23 yr old 2nd pairing dman with upside (although soft as ****) was in hindsight the better option.

 

[tsanuri]

I was just looking over some past trades, and was looking at the Boston deals. Lucic and Hamilton traded on the same day for similar returns. I know Hamilton had a pretty average year for the flames, but did we get the wrong guy?

Biggest difference was getting a player signed for that year at a reduced rate. vs Having to sign a player and pay the full cost. You have to remember Hamilton wasn't signed. And that 2.5M for the whole season would have been crippling.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Biggest difference was getting a player signed for that year at a reduced rate. vs Having to sign a player and pay the full cost. You have to remember Hamilton wasn't signed. And that 2.5M for the whole season would have been crippling.

Good point, The caphit probably wouldn't have fit us.

 

[tsanuri]

at the time of the trade pretty much everyone was saying how well Lucic would fit in LA. Hind site is 20/20, but it was seen as a good get at the time

He was a great get and fit like a glove.
Too bad the business side is now taking over.
He wants a longer term to protect himself.
We want a shorter term because we think he might break down.
I think the teams could come together on money by splitting the middle. But the term would still be the sticking point.

 

[YP44]

Hamilton really didn't help Calgary all that much and is very weak in his own end of the ice. Funny thing is many thought Calgary had one of the best bluelines in the league, and as it turned out, their performance was among the worst in the league.

Hamilton struggled to adjust to Calgary's system but really played better in the 2nd half of the year.
I am anything but a flames fan but Brodie, Giordano and Hamilton are all good D-men. The biggest drop from expectation on calgary's D was not Hamilton IMO it was Wideman.

Wideman had a great 2014-2015 season, and did not reproduce.

Hartley also did not have the best defensive system and I imagine whomever they bring in will improve their team's d

 

[YP44]

He was a great get and fit like a glove.
Too bad the business side is now taking over.
He wants a longer term to protect himself.
We want a shorter term because we think he might break down.
I think the teams could come together on money by splitting the middle. But the term would still be the sticking point.

I completely get it from Lucic's POV. This is the last time in his career he will be able to cash in on a big money deal. It's easy for us to say there is a good fit here and he should give up some to stay...but would any of us give up millions to stay with our current employers? I guess Millions is not fair, would any of us give up the % of salary Lucic would be to stay with our employers?

 

[BigKing]

Lucic is/was a great fit but fitting him into the cap was always going to be an issue, just like Sekera.

Guys don't take big discounts to come back to teams that don't make the playoffs or get blown out in five games.

Signing Gaborik was no problem because the guy left Ohio to go to LA and won a Cup. Regher was no problem. Carter being stoked to be here after his trade wasn't a problem. Toffoli took a huge discount. Even signing Penner wasn't a problem and he took only a one year deal.

A lot easier to pitch discounts and whatnot when the pitch is to play for a perennial contender. DL made two deals where he bet on the team winning with said winning providing him some high cards at the poker table in the off-season.

He didn't have a good hand last off-season and he has a poorer hand this off-season. Why should someone give up ~3 years of guaranteed $6MM+ per to play for this current incarnation of the Kings when their only experience is getting blasted in five games by a rival, especially if they already have their name on the Cup?

Get those checks, baby. These guys only have so many bites at the apple and most guys in Milan's age range aren't taking a discount on a contract at this stage of their career.