GDT: Offseason GDT II

[YP44]

If and man is that a big IF we could do that it would be great.
But what incentive does a 29 year old UFA have in signing a 1 year deal? He's considered in his prime for a D man in a big way. And that means multi year deal.

only incentive is that he does not get stuck in Vegas do to expansion draft. However someone in yandle's shoes will be able to get a NMC to counter act that. Just wishful thinking.

 

[YP44]

It also a case there has to be an owner willing to go there.
I couldn't believe there wasn't a big for a second team in the GTA.
We know there would have been a fight but they could have placed the bid.
Being from the market not just a fan of the Kings I am ok with letting markets grow. Otherwise not only would we have not gotten a team that team would have been ripped away. Hockey didn't even come onto the map for me really until the 1980 Olympics and the Miracle on Ice. I was 10 at the time. I knew there was a hockey team in LA but had never watched or gone to a game. Nobody in my family was a hockey fan. And it didn't help there was no live TV games of the Kings. Games were rebroadcast late at night. Even once I became a fan the games were rebroadcast, edited, after the Lakers games. And just a few years later I was watching one of those games and it turned out to be the Miracle on Manchester. I was then hooked.
But I didn't get to go to my first game for 4 more years. After I had gotten a job and I had to sneak down to the Forum. I lived in the burbs and that wasn't a good place.

I'm all for GTA 2, but where do you think in the US is underserved?
And adding Canadian teams won't help the problem of the two currencies. It would actually make it worse. I can't think of a single US market that could add a team and be an instant hit. There are some maybes there. Seattle, Portland, Hartford and Huston. But once again we have the problem of needing an owner, arena, or both. But all those places had a chance but failed to apply as well. Which means at the cost there were no owners avail.

Adding a 2nd GTA team would make currency fluctuations cap impact worse. However it would definitely increase revenue for all making cap go up.

As for where is undeserved in the States I truly do not know as I do not know where Hockey Hotbeds are located that have a large corporate base and large population to draw from.
I am skeptical of Seattle as the only way that happens is if the NBA is involved and then the team would be competing for entertainment dollars. I was liking the idea of Milwaukee, but truthfully do not know about the market.
Like a decade ago there were rumblings about Kansas City which made some sense to me do to not having to compete with NBA. But college ball is so huge there it already is sorta competing.

Can I throw that question back to you? What markets (if any) do you think are underserved? Also do you think there are any markets where the league has taken it as far as they can go?

I think that Carolina has to be near that point. If a Cup Championship does not create loyal long term fans not sure what does. new jersey was looking that way too.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

A UFA signing a contract in fear of being exposed in an expansion draft can simply ask for a NMC that would restrict him from being exposed in any upcoming expansion drafts for X amount of years. Problem solved.

I don't think any UFA will be signing a one-year deal in fear of being plucked in an expansion draft.

 

[tsanuri]

Adding a 2nd GTA team would make currency fluctuations cap impact worse. However it would definitely increase revenue for all making cap go up.

As for where is undeserved in the States I truly do not know as I do not know where Hockey Hotbeds are located that have a large corporate base and large population to draw from.
I am skeptical of Seattle as the only way that happens is if the NBA is involved and then the team would be competing for entertainment dollars. I was liking the idea of Milwaukee, but truthfully do not know about the market.
Like a decade ago there were rumblings about Kansas City which made some sense to me do to not having to compete with NBA. But college ball is so huge there it already is sorta competing.

Can I throw that question back to you? What markets (if any) do you think are underserved? Also do you think there are any markets where the league has taken it as far as they can go?

I think that Carolina has to be near that point. If a Cup Championship does not create loyal long term fans not sure what does. new jersey was looking that way too.

There are none that wouldn't have to grow the game in my opinion. That is just the nature of the beast.
There are areas that hockey is known but we're in a chicken of the egg debate then. Without a team why incentive do people in the area have to become rabid fans?
And then you can go back to the moving of teams. If teams aren't given the ability to struggle, which they will, in the first few decades really in the States. Why should people invest into the team? Of course there are always times when it can't be avoided, Atlanta, really comes to mind.
Carolina had an opportunity to get themselves going very well. But what have they done since the cup?
They have made the playoffs once and that was 2 years later. But they haven't made it again. And for the most part haven't even been close any of the years. They really wasted it.
The Kings kind of hit a perfect storm. 3 very good years in a row 2 of them ending in Cups right around the time of the time of that 2nd generation. Only thing that sucks to me is I'm looking at moving back down into the market and getting my season seats back will not only be harder to get but cost me a lot more.
As to the question of Milwaukee, just don't see it. The only reason the Packers even work is they are an institution. And I have friends in Wisconsin.

 

[Herby]

My wife is from just outside Milwaukee, just don't see it as an NHL market, combination of being to small, and not a huge hockey following. Madison is a good hockey town but it's an hour and a half away.

Also, the Hawks would put up a big stink because it would be a competitor only 90 minutes away.

 

[Fishhead]

Adding a 2nd GTA team would make currency fluctuations cap impact worse. However it would definitely increase revenue for all making cap go up.

As for where is undeserved in the States I truly do not know as I do not know where Hockey Hotbeds are located that have a large corporate base and large population to draw from.
I am skeptical of Seattle as the only way that happens is if the NBA is involved and then the team would be competing for entertainment dollars. I was liking the idea of Milwaukee, but truthfully do not know about the market.
Like a decade ago there were rumblings about Kansas City which made some sense to me do to not having to compete with NBA. But college ball is so huge there it already is sorta competing.

Can I throw that question back to you? What markets (if any) do you think are underserved? Also do you think there are any markets where the league has taken it as far as they can go?

I think that Carolina has to be near that point. If a Cup Championship does not create loyal long term fans not sure what does. new jersey was looking that way too.

The biggest factor in the US is that the biggest untapped areas aren't in "hockey" areas. Atlanta is top 10 in population as far as urban areas, and that failed twice. Phoenix is 12 - struggling. Miami is 4th with over 5M people and the Panthers still struggle. Seattle is the only northern market that has the population to support a team, but they can be fickle about their sports there so it's a risky market.

Undeserved is a tough adjective to use, because really, there aren't any options out there. You could say Arizona doesn't 'deserve' a team if there was an open market with untapped potential, but they just aren't there. Milwaukee has less people than the inland empire, it's tiny as far as cities go. For all their struggles, the Hurricanes draw pretty well considering the entire city population is below 500K It's very close to Calgary and Edmonton in metro size, unless you start adding Durham and Chapel hill, then it hits 2M but that's a spread out area.

I know the league is high on Vegas but I think it's a disaster waiting to happen, the economics in that area are like a violent see-saw. I think any expansion outside of Canada is going to ultimately fail. I firmly believe hockey is saturated in the US and is peaked in nearly every market, unless the league suddenly decides to greatly increase marketing.

 

[tsanuri]

The biggest factor in the US is that the biggest untapped areas aren't in "hockey" areas. Atlanta is top 10 in population as far as urban areas, and that failed twice. Phoenix is 12 - struggling. Miami is 4th with over 5M people and the Panthers still struggle. Seattle is the only northern market that has the population to support a team, but they can be fickle about their sports there so it's a risky market.

Undeserved is a tough adjective to use, because really, there aren't any options out there. You could say Arizona doesn't 'deserve' a team if there was an open market with untapped potential, but they just aren't there. Milwaukee has less people than the inland empire, it's tiny as far as cities go. For all their struggles, the Hurricanes draw pretty well considering the entire city population is below 500K It's very close to Calgary and Edmonton in metro size, unless you start adding Durham and Chapel hill, then it hits 2M but that's a spread out area.

I know the league is high on Vegas but I think it's a disaster waiting to happen, the economics in that area are like a violent see-saw. I think any expansion outside of Canada is going to ultimately fail. I firmly believe hockey is saturated in the US and is peaked in nearly every market, unless the league suddenly decides to greatly increase marketing.

Portland could support a team and think they would. But it would take time and Allen really wanting the team. He's shown interest but not at the current price for expansion. But if he felt it made financial sense he would be a relocation owner. He owns the arena and the Trail Blazers already. And of course he owns the Seahawks in Seattle and part of the Sounders. So he's very familiar with what it takes to run a sports team.

 

[mattgkg]

.wrong thread.

 

[Omni Owl]

Yeah I'd much rather see an NHL expansion team make it up to Seattle or Portland instead. The idea of Vegas having a hockey team seems odd to me, it doesn't seem like a good fit and more of a side attraction to the city. Hopefully Quebec will get a team at some point, I miss those Nordiques uniforms.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah I'd much rather see an NHL expansion team make it up to Seattle or Portland instead. The idea of Vegas having a hockey team seems odd to me, it doesn't seem like a good fit and more of a side attraction to the city. Hopefully Quebec will get a team at some point, I miss those Nordiques uniforms.

Even as a guy who wants to keep seeing the league grow, I totally agree. U.S. is oversaturated right now. Pacific NW US (Portland, Seattle) would be great because they do have a pretty solid hockey history but outside of that I'd love to see two more teams in Canada.

Really though I think the league, after this, needs to stop expanding until the economy shows more promise.

 

[The Tikkanen]

I'll be waiting for a Tuesday night game in middle January vs Carolina to see how the Vegas team attendance is. Seems like a very bad idea to me.

 

[YP44]

The biggest factor in the US is that the biggest untapped areas aren't in "hockey" areas. Atlanta is top 10 in population as far as urban areas, and that failed twice. Phoenix is 12 - struggling. Miami is 4th with over 5M people and the Panthers still struggle. Seattle is the only northern market that has the population to support a team, but they can be fickle about their sports there so it's a risky market.

Undeserved is a tough adjective to use, because really, there aren't any options out there. You could say Arizona doesn't 'deserve' a team if there was an open market with untapped potential, but they just aren't there. Milwaukee has less people than the inland empire, it's tiny as far as cities go. For all their struggles, the Hurricanes draw pretty well considering the entire city population is below 500K It's very close to Calgary and Edmonton in metro size, unless you start adding Durham and Chapel hill, then it hits 2M but that's a spread out area.

I know the league is high on Vegas but I think it's a disaster waiting to happen, the economics in that area are like a violent see-saw. I think any expansion outside of Canada is going to ultimately fail. I firmly believe hockey is saturated in the US and is peaked in nearly every market, unless the league suddenly decides to greatly increase marketing.

thank for the insight, definitely appreciate it. Just wanted to point out Calgary has a population over $1.2M and Edmonton over $1M.

 

[YP44]

Even as a guy who wants to keep seeing the league grow, I totally agree. U.S. is oversaturated right now. Pacific NW US (Portland, Seattle) would be great because they do have a pretty solid hockey history but outside of that I'd love to see two more teams in Canada.

Really though I think the league, after this, needs to stop expanding until the economy shows more promise.

I think the talent pool could support it though. Teams are very very deep now, with guys having to go to Europe or retire but still having a fair amount of game left.

 

[Fishhead]

thank for the insight, definitely appreciate it. Just wanted to point out Calgary has a population over $1.2M and Edmonton over $1M.

Yes sorry, should have been clearer! 500K is the city proper, Metro Raleigh is in the low millions, depending on how far you go out. If you go out all the way to the colleges and Durham it's around 2M. It's not as quite as compact as Calgary, can't say much about Edmonton because I haven't made it there yet! But you can see why the NHL struggles there.

The only market I see in the USA would be in the Northwest. I actually think Houston would work, but I'm sure there are arena problems there.

 

[Omni Owl]

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/from-the-ice/mckenzie-think-tyson-barrie-going-traded/

C'mon DL, I would give Martinez + up for someone like Barrie.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

C'mon DL, I would give Martinez + up for someone like Barrie.

I'd rather they offer whatever package for Trouba than Barrie.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think the talent pool could support it though. Teams are very very deep now, with guys having to go to Europe or retire but still having a fair amount of game left.

I totally agree the talent pool can and diluting it with a few more teams would be good imo because it will cause more separation between the top and bottom players. I just meant from a financial perspective

 

[Seventyx7]

C'mon DL, I would give Martinez + up for someone like Barrie.

Doesn't this just fill one hole by opening up another?

Need to fill the VV slot without giving up a top 4 D or we're just going in circles.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=118980613#post118980613

“So there’s lots going on there. I can’t sit here and unequivocally tell you, ‘Yeah, Trouba is going to be traded because the Jets aren’t going to get a deal done with him.’ The Jets may very well get a deal done with Jacob Trouba, end of story, that’s that.

“But I can you this – there are going to be a bunch of National Hockey League teams calling the Jets and saying, ‘What are you doing with Trouba? If you’re going to move him, we’re interested.’

“So you get two concurrent things going down separate rails – the negotiation for the contract, and always aware at the same time what his trade value is, and if you do have to move him, what you might be able to get back for him.”

 

[YP44]

i know it's a pipe dream but would be awesome if Colorado traded Barrie to us. If LA is not re-sign Lucic that's money that can go to Barrie

 

[Omni Owl]

i know it's a pipe dream but would be awesome if Colorado traded Barrie to us. If LA is not re-sign Lucic that's money that can go to Barrie

Barrie is the guy I'd want, he's a tad better than Martinez. Who knows if the Jets are going to trade Trouba, but if Bobby Mac says Barrie is getting moved, he'll be moved. It is a bit of a pipe dream, but that's all we're stuck with nowadays.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Doesn't this just fill one hole by opening up another?

Need to fill the VV slot without giving up a top 4 D or we're just going in circles.

It would depend on what else happens. Just for the sake of argument, Martinez gets traded for Barrie, then sign Yandle. That would leave a hole up front, but they're going to be missing a ready made top 6 forward or top 4 defenseman when the season starts either way.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

It would depend on what else happens. Just for the sake of argument, Martinez gets traded for Barrie, then sign Yandle. That would leave a hole up front, but they're going to be missing a ready made top 6 forward or top 4 defenseman when the season starts either way.

Highly doubt they can afford Yandle and Barrie unless they dump Brown and/or Gaborik for no salary.

 

[Seventyx7]

It would depend on what else happens. Just for the sake of argument, Martinez gets traded for Barrie, then sign Yandle. That would leave a hole up front, but they're going to be missing a ready made top 6 forward or top 4 defenseman when the season starts either way.

True, I guess in that situation it could work. Would be a shame to move Martinez though IMO.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Highly doubt they can afford Yandle and Barrie unless they dump Brown and/or Gaborik for no salary.

They'll also go after Steven Stamkos and offer sheet Trouba as well.