i would do Martinez +. I know it would move one top 4 for another, but looking 2-3 years ahead I like the chances of us filling out a top 4 with a LHD than a RHD
GDT: Offseason GDT II
- Thread starter Raccoon Jesus
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
- Status
i would do Martinez +. I know it would move one top 4 for another, but looking 2-3 years ahead I like the chances of us filling out a top 4 with a LHD than a RHD
tsanuri
Registered User
I have no problem moving a top 4 D for another top 4 D. But do have problems with suggesting we go to FA to sign another D only to have to expose a top 4 D in expansion. At which point losing them for nothing.
I know the draft rules as leaked are designed to make teams make these exact choices.
I know the draft rules as leaked are designed to make teams make these exact choices.
lumbergh
It was an idea. I didn't say it was a good idea.
What's the big deal with the right hand vs. left hand thing? Martinez plays either side.
Barrie's a bit on the small side. Not sure I'd put my money on Lombardi or Sutter trying hard to acquire him. I'm not saying he's not a good player; I remember when he absolutely buried the Kings in January. The Kings just haven't had anyone below 6'0" play defense in recent memory.
I would if the exposed D could be the FA. Basically buying a one year rental without losing anyone
basically just sets up better. for example in the offensive end it is easier for the D on the right side to keep the puck in the zone if they are right handed. Also on the PP havign a LHD and RHD allow for better shooing paths. there are way fewer RHD in the league than LHD so it drives up their value (supply and demand), so currently a LHD is easier to replace
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Current bluelines for the remaining teams in the Cup Final:
Dumoulin-Letang
Maata-Lovejoy
Cole-Schultz
Daley (injured)
Pouliot
Vlasic-Braun
Martin-Burns
Dillon-Polak
Tennyson
DeMelo
Compare that to what the Kings iced in the playoffs:
McNabb-Doughty
Muzzin-Schenn
Scuderi-McBain
Martinez (injured)
McNabb was in over his head, Schenn was bumped up due to Martinez being out, and Scuderi was out of his element when he had to face the speed of the Sharks and he was especially useless when used on the PK.
What this team needs is to have Muzzin back with Doughty and to have another mid-pairing dman who is capable of being paired with Martinez. Gravel could possibly fill a role in the top 4 similar to what Dumoulin has done playing with Letang. Dumoulin is 24 and has three full seasons of AHL experience under his belt before becoming a regular in the Pens' lineup this season.
Gravel is the same height, same age, but with two seasons of AHL experience. If he makes the team, chances are he'll be eased in by being used as a bottom pairing guy. If there are no changes made to the lineup, I'd like to see them try this lineup in the preseason games:
Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-Martinez
Forbort-Greene (should he be ready to return)
McNabb
Dumoulin-Letang
Maata-Lovejoy
Cole-Schultz
Daley (injured)
Pouliot
Vlasic-Braun
Martin-Burns
Dillon-Polak
Tennyson
DeMelo
Compare that to what the Kings iced in the playoffs:
McNabb-Doughty
Muzzin-Schenn
Scuderi-McBain
Martinez (injured)
McNabb was in over his head, Schenn was bumped up due to Martinez being out, and Scuderi was out of his element when he had to face the speed of the Sharks and he was especially useless when used on the PK.
What this team needs is to have Muzzin back with Doughty and to have another mid-pairing dman who is capable of being paired with Martinez. Gravel could possibly fill a role in the top 4 similar to what Dumoulin has done playing with Letang. Dumoulin is 24 and has three full seasons of AHL experience under his belt before becoming a regular in the Pens' lineup this season.
Gravel is the same height, same age, but with two seasons of AHL experience. If he makes the team, chances are he'll be eased in by being used as a bottom pairing guy. If there are no changes made to the lineup, I'd like to see them try this lineup in the preseason games:
Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-Martinez
Forbort-Greene (should he be ready to return)
McNabb
tsanuri
Registered User
But we're back to what's the incentive for any player to do this?
It's more a dream that it could happen and not a reality.
Forbort or Gravel. Everyone shouldn't discount Forbort. He had a good year in the AHL. I agree with everything you mention though. I believe the Kings will look at Forbort first more so. Forbort has to clear waivers next year, Gravel doesn't. Its my belief Forbort would not clear waivers. Trades can readjust the lineup as well. Also, both Forbort and McNabb are RFA. So, something could give there as well. Its going to be interesting right up until opening day.
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
- 7,615
Teams wouldn't have to protect only 3 defensemen. Say Forbort and/or Gravel, or even McNabb, turn into great defensemen next year, and there's an expansion draft. Protect Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez. Still probably going to lose a top 4 defensemen for nothing, either way. Whether it's a free agent or, say, Gravel.
Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-Martinez
Forbort-Greene (should he be ready to return)
McNabb
This is garbage for next year. One injury away from Greene getting bumped up? Gravel/Forbort ARE going to have growing pains. They may become top 4D in the future.
If the plan isn't to ice a competitive D next year what is the plan? For me that should be acquiring guys for the long term with more skill then what the Kings presently have and/or get younger.
Muzzin-Martinez
Forbort-Greene (should he be ready to return)
McNabb
This is garbage for next year. One injury away from Greene getting bumped up? Gravel/Forbort ARE going to have growing pains. They may become top 4D in the future.
If the plan isn't to ice a competitive D next year what is the plan? For me that should be acquiring guys for the long term with more skill then what the Kings presently have and/or get younger.
I am going to die of laughter if either one of Gravel/Forbort picks next year to break out and the Kings lose them in the expansion.
KingsOfCali25
Start up the Tank!
The Kings can also go the 8 and 1 route and keep 4 dmen. They really only have to protect Kopitar, Carter, Toffoli, Pearson as the forwards. It's not like we have a lot of super offensive threats to worry about protecting. Only real worry is if we need to protect Kempe.
KingsOfCali25
Start up the Tank!
Omni Owl
▽
- Mar 9, 2008
- 6,908
- 1,555
not sure I would offer the 1st just because of then having to expose someone else to expansion. Also Martinez holds way more value than McNabb so I think that would be an easy decision for the jets or avs
People keep saying that teams can only protect 3 D, but I thought the team could pick 4 but then would be able to protect a couple less total skaters. If so than maybe I would. I don't know, i keep flip flopping.
KingsOfCali25
Start up the Tank!
?
I'd definitely give up one of Martinez or McNabb (other team would probably take Martinez) + one of Gravel or Forbort (doesn't matter which one) + N.Shore (Dowd has already passed him) + 2017 1st (this one hurts a lot but for Trouba or Barrie, I'd move it)
KingsOfCali25
Start up the Tank!
It's either...
7 Forwards + 3 dman + 1 goalie
OR
8 skaters ( Forwards and Dman) + 1 goalie
I'm starting to think protecting the 8 + 1 would be better for the Kings
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Voynov was listed at 6'0 but seeing him in person you'd know that's generous. He was also pretty slight. BUT he was fantastic positionally and great at pinching/leveraging people on the boards, he wasn't a bruiser, but he was an effective checker. Barrie is listed at 5'10" 190 so far, so he's a little bit smaller, but not significantly, and has similar attributes. McBain is 6'1" 180 so. They're all comparable. But I agree that's why a guy like Trouba makes more sense, but he'd also be tougher to get.
I practically guarantee this happens. The only saving grace might be that many other deeper teams will have similar problems. No one is going to self-gut their roster to make sure they don't get sniped by an expansion team, thought it may facilitate some trades so a guy doesn't just get lost (i.e. McNabb or Gravel or Forbort would make a great bottom pairing d for an expansion team, so trade one of them for a pick or something). But I'm sure as the date grows closer and we look at other rosters, that'll be less scary.
Omni Owl
▽
- Mar 9, 2008
- 6,908
- 1,555
Martinez's value is much much higher than McNabb's, so you can trim that offer down a bit.
Omni Owl
▽
- Mar 9, 2008
- 6,908
- 1,555
Someone around here mentioned signing Brian Campbell, who would provide some veteran presence, and if he gets poached by an expansion team, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. He hasn't aged that horribly.
Campbell-Doughty
Muzzin-Barrie
Fobort-Gravel
McNabb/Greene?
That's a highly skilled and mobile defense. The only question mark is that last pairing.
Campbell-Doughty
Muzzin-Barrie
Fobort-Gravel
McNabb/Greene?
That's a highly skilled and mobile defense. The only question mark is that last pairing.
I think it would be for sure.
Kopitar, Carter, Toffoli, Pearson up front
Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez and an acquired D on the backend
tsanuri
Registered User
This is a different issue than trading away assets that aren't a D to get a D. Or signing a UFA and then losing someone.
I'll take this problem if it happens and actually be happy that one of them stepped up and grew.
I would be game for Campbell..I have come to terms with Lucic leaving and am now thinking that LA should use that money on the market.
Edit: Just saw you also snuck Barrie in there too.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I'm actually surprised to see people ragging on McNabb hard enough that they have him penciled OUT of the lineup and have Forbort AND Gravel over him.
I was as hard on him as anyone but because he was miscast not because he is terrible.
The guy is already a good NHL d-man. You don't dump him out of the lineup for wildcards. He's up and coming with a high ceiling as well (lower than Gravel imo because of Gravel's IQ).
I was as hard on him as anyone but because he was miscast not because he is terrible.
The guy is already a good NHL d-man. You don't dump him out of the lineup for wildcards. He's up and coming with a high ceiling as well (lower than Gravel imo because of Gravel's IQ).
- Status
