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GDT: Offseason GDT II

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YP44 said:
considering he has been seen at Reign games I would think he expects to be back..hell i think he said as much (sorry did not open article if it says all that)
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Hopefully he's getting a good look at some potential future Kings towards next season.

Given how many young players have played pivotal roles on the remaining playoff teams, it is due time that the Kings transitioned to be a younger team by replacing some of the fillers with players who have played a big role in Ontario's success.

Auger in place of Lewis
Dowd in place of Lecavalier
Mersch in place of King
Gravel in place of Schenn
Forbort in place of Scuderi

And if Brown is jettisoned out of here, find room for Kempe. These transactions would also permit the Kings to re-sign Lucic and add an additional top 4 dman. They could go for a cheap option to serve as a backup to Quick or just promote Budaj.
 
Lisa Dillman posted an article today Re: Sutter

http://www.latimes.com/sports/kings...ource=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=53285

“We have a lot of players that are free agents and a lot of young players that are close to playing here,” Sutter said. “As coaches, you’re trying to get through where you could be next year with your roster. That was more important to me the last two or three weeks than any of my stuff.

“The [contract] parameters are pretty clear. We just wanted to make sure … trying to get everything lined up to make sure everything works out.”
“Two things for me are important,” Sutter said. “Family obviously. Wanda and Chris really like it here. The next part is: Our team is going to change. We have to be able to adjust. You want to be able to do it sooner than later. So you want to know what you’re going to have and how you’re going to play. That’s the challenge, and that’s the good thing.”
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sounds like Sutter is concerned with team structure/roster problems going forward, which is interesting. hopefully Dean makes the right moves this summer
 
AlphaBravo said:
Whether to keep Gaborik largely depends on what the team's 2-3 year plan is. If we plan on playing the youth and doing a mini-retool or rebuild, then we should trade Gaborik because of his term alone.

If we want to compete for the cup next year, than I have mixed feelings about trading Gaborik. On the one hand, if we cannot get rid of Brown, trading him is the only option to open cap space for a top 4 defenseman (other than simply not signing Lucic). On the other hand, with this team's system, getting goals is tough and Gaborik is still good for 20+ goals, and has skill and speed.
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YP44 said:
This is pretty much why I think he should be dealt. I think the team will do a mini re-tool to ensure they are more competitive past just next next year, but still be competitive next year. However to still be a contender they need lucic, who also is good for 20+ goals.
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I actually think is movable with the right pieces , however if we cant move him then you dont trade a guy like Gabby. We need his game breaking speed and sniping capabilities. It would be wiser to move Martinez because he is a borderline 4/5 defenseman. If we can move Martinez + King + for a top 4 RHD then this helps open up space for another dman via ufa. You can promote Gravel and Mersch. Gravel is underrated and can grow on us fast if given the opportunity. The kid is very sound positionally and uses his stick very well. Has speed to go along with it. We need a Mitchell type with Doughty why not them play now.

Lets say hypothetically you can move Martinez + King + for Trouba

Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-Trouba
Mcnabb/Forbort-UFA( Demers/Miller/Russel)

Is much better than anything else we can ice defensively and will be one of the deepest lineups in the league already. If you move Gaborik you are losing offense and have to see Brown on the 1st line again and leave another hole in the bottom 6. Its bad choices. We are challenged offensively , not defensively. Our team defense makes up for it. The entire team along with our stars werent playing in the post season it wasnt just on the defense.

Lucic cap works simply because you add 2.5 to his current caphit , with King moving and promoting within and Lewis moving and Martinez moving you have enough cap space for Lucic and keeping Gaborik and having a top 4 RHD and a bottom 5/6 via ufa. Richards cap hit is lowered and you move Greene and his 2.5 because he is also slow and there are many better options oh and also he hasnt played for 2 years.

Pearson-Kopitar-Gaborik
Lucic-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Dowd-Brown
Clifford-Shore-Andreoff
Nolan

Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-Hypothetical
Mcnabb/Forbort-UFA

Is better than


Lucic-Kopitar-Brown
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
King-Dowd-??
Clifford/Mersch-Andreoff-Shore
Nolan


and whatever defense will make Mcnabb a top 4 dman. Sutter couldnt even trust him , he was playing him fairly half of what he was giving him in the regular season

You both have great ideas as well but i would just hate to see Gaborik leave and our biggest challenge is offense. We would only be creating more holes. I really like the thought of upgrading Martinez + King who is slow for a top 4 dman and some youth.
 
Is the adjustment Sutter's talking about competing now vs a development year? That would make a difference in ice time for players and who gets played. Wouldn't really effect the style of play.

If it's a development year, I guess the only question left is: Is Brown glued to Carter for a year enough to get this team in the lottery?
 
Kingsfan1 said:
I actually think is movable with the right pieces , however if we cant move him then you dont trade a guy like Gabby. We need his game breaking speed and sniping capabilities. It would be wiser to move Martinez because he is a borderline 4/5 defenseman. If we can move Martinez + King + for a top 4 RHD then this helps open up space for another dman via ufa. You can promote Gravel and Mersch. Gravel is underrated and can grow on us fast if given the opportunity. The kid is very sound positionally and uses his stick very well. Has speed to go along with it. We need a Mitchell type with Doughty why not them play now.

Lets say hypothetically you can move Martinez + King + for Trouba

Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-Trouba
Mcnabb/Forbort-UFA( Demers/Miller/Russel)

Is much better than anything else we can ice defensively and will be one of the deepest lineups in the league already. If you move Gaborik you are losing offense and have to see Brown on the 1st line again and leave another hole in the bottom 6. Its bad choices. We are challenged offensively , not defensively. Our team defense makes up for it. The entire team along with our stars werent playing in the post season it wasnt just on the defense.

Lucic cap works simply because you add 2.5 to his current caphit , with King moving and promoting within and Lewis moving and Martinez moving you have enough cap space for Lucic and keeping Gaborik and having a top 4 RHD and a bottom 5/6 via ufa. Richards cap hit is lowered and you move Greene and his 2.5 because he is also slow and there are many better options oh and also he hasnt played for 2 years.

Pearson-Kopitar-Gaborik
Lucic-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Dowd-Brown
Clifford-Shore-Andreoff
Nolan

Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-Hypothetical
Mcnabb/Forbort-UFA

Is better than


Lucic-Kopitar-Brown
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
King-Dowd-??
Clifford/Mersch-Andreoff-Shore
Nolan


and whatever defense will make Mcnabb a top 4 dman. Sutter couldnt even trust him , he was playing him fairly half of what he was giving him in the regular season

You both have great ideas as well but i would just hate to see Gaborik leave and our biggest challenge is offense. We would only be creating more holes. I really like the thought of upgrading Martinez + King who is slow for a top 4 dman and some youth.
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I hear what you are saying, but remember Gaborik is signed till 2021. That is frightening if his play drops off because of old age 2 years from now and no team is willing to trade for him. As much as we need offense, we can fill that hole through other means, like trading for players like McGinn or Versteeg at the trade deadline who are low cost, no term, and can contribute a decent amount to help the team. If we don't trade Gaborik now, then we might not get another chance to get his cap hit and term off the books. With the cap hits of Brown and Gaborik this team has no chance of being a cup contender in 3 years.

Again, like it said, whether to trade Gaborik depends on if the Kings are going all in next year. The hypothetical roster you listed in your post is not even close to competing for the cup. Player by player it pales in comparison to the likes of the Blues, Lightening, Pens, Dallas etc. It might barely make the playoffs and get kicked out of the first round. That is fine in my book, as long as the kids develop and learn from it, like the Kings of 2010 and forward. But if the goal is to use the next two years to get the kids prepared to be contenders, then we don't need Gaborik to do that.
 
Kingsfan1 said:
I actually think is movable with the right pieces , however if we cant move him then you dont trade a guy like Gabby. We need his game breaking speed and sniping capabilities. It would be wiser to move Martinez because he is a borderline 4/5 defenseman. If we can move Martinez + King + for a top 4 RHD then this helps open up space for another dman via ufa. You can promote Gravel and Mersch. Gravel is underrated and can grow on us fast if given the opportunity. The kid is very sound positionally and uses his stick very well. Has speed to go along with it. We need a Mitchell type with Doughty why not them play now.

Lets say hypothetically you can move Martinez + King + for Trouba

Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-Trouba
Mcnabb/Forbort-UFA( Demers/Miller/Russel)

Is much better than anything else we can ice defensively and will be one of the deepest lineups in the league already. If you move Gaborik you are losing offense and have to see Brown on the 1st line again and leave another hole in the bottom 6. Its bad choices. We are challenged offensively , not defensively. Our team defense makes up for it. The entire team along with our stars werent playing in the post season it wasnt just on the defense.

Lucic cap works simply because you add 2.5 to his current caphit , with King moving and promoting within and Lewis moving and Martinez moving you have enough cap space for Lucic and keeping Gaborik and having a top 4 RHD and a bottom 5/6 via ufa. Richards cap hit is lowered and you move Greene and his 2.5 because he is also slow and there are many better options oh and also he hasnt played for 2 years.

Pearson-Kopitar-Gaborik
Lucic-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Dowd-Brown
Clifford-Shore-Andreoff
Nolan

Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-Hypothetical
Mcnabb/Forbort-UFA

Is better than


Lucic-Kopitar-Brown
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
King-Dowd-??
Clifford/Mersch-Andreoff-Shore
Nolan


and whatever defense will make Mcnabb a top 4 dman. Sutter couldnt even trust him , he was playing him fairly half of what he was giving him in the regular season

You both have great ideas as well but i would just hate to see Gaborik leave and our biggest challenge is offense. We would only be creating more holes. I really like the thought of upgrading Martinez + King who is slow for a top 4 dman and some youth.
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That's a horrible bottom 6. No speed, no offense, nothing. Don't know if that's your cup contending lineup but the Kings aren't winning anything with that bottom 6.
 
Trolfoli said:
Is the adjustment Sutter's talking about competing now vs a development year? That would make a difference in ice time for players and who gets played. Wouldn't really effect the style of play.

If it's a development year, I guess the only question left is: Is Brown glued to Carter for a year enough to get this team in the lottery?
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Nope, I expect playoffs next year if without addressing D and if lucic walks. All times who miss the playoffs are technically in the lottery.
 
YP44 said:
Nope, I expect playoffs next year if without addressing D and if lucic walks. All times who miss the playoffs are technically in the lottery.
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If next year is a development year where they know they aren't going for a cup they should really consider tanking.

Given the core, the division, and looser points, limping into the playoffs seems more likely.
 
So, yeah: the answers are already on the roster. Might not be the answers you are looking for but that's what is happening.

No dry powder and little-to-no cap space to make moves for anyone legit.

Top 6 is 11-77-17-73-12 and probably 70.

Bye-bye Lewis unless DL gives him a 5 year+ contract to keep the cap low. Don't bet against this. Bottom 6 is going to have a lot of competition at camp.

8-6-27 3 ??

Got to think Forbort and Gravel are both up. Wold not surprise to see 8-6-27 each paired with one of the rookies/McNabb to try to ease the transition with Greene mixing in. Expect Forbort and Gravel to watch from the press box some nights.

Not sure the "changes" DL and Sutter have spoken about are impending paradigm shifts in playing style but more so in regards to the type of player being drafted and scouted at both the amateur and pro levels (i.e. it is not all about size). For the immediate future, the change is some of the old guard moving on but I think it will be confined to the Bottom 6 more than the Top 6 because moving anybody from there leaves a hole. Impending expansion draft comes in to play as well when dreaming about a #3-4D.

Still expect to see Brown on this team opening night.
 
With Sutter's signing soon to be announced, we can all just forget about getting Lewis and King. That will never happen unless Lewis demands more than $3 million. Expect those two on this team for better or worse.
 
AlphaBravo said:
With Sutter's signing soon to be announced, we can all just forget about getting Lewis and King. That will never happen unless Lewis demands more than $3 million. Expect those two on this team for better or worse.
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not many players bring what King can for less than $2M if he is still with the club I have no issue.

As for Lewis I still think he is gone
 
http://lakingsinsider.com/2016/05/12/martinez-surgery-brown-minor-procedure-nolan-advances-in-rehab/

Defenseman Alec Martinez underwent surgery and forward Dustin Brown underwent what was described as a “minor procedure” at the conclusion of the 2015-16 season, LA Kings Insider has learned from Kings hockey operations.

Though Martinez was limited to 11:43 of ice time in the five-game, first round defeat to the San Jose Sharks because of a groin injury, the surgery was actually to correct shoulder discomfort that had been bothering him for much of the season. The expected recovery time for the surgery is in the ballpark of three months, according to a source in hockey operations, so the timing was right to correct the injury at the outset of the off-season. Everything appears to be “in order,” so barring any unforeseen variable, he should be expected to participate fully in training camp.
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AlphaBravo said:
I hear what you are saying, but remember Gaborik is signed till 2021. That is frightening if his play drops off because of old age 2 years from now and no team is willing to trade for him. As much as we need offense, we can fill that hole through other means, like trading for players like McGinn or Versteeg at the trade deadline who are low cost, no term, and can contribute a decent amount to help the team. If we don't trade Gaborik now, then we might not get another chance to get his cap hit and term off the books. With the cap hits of Brown and Gaborik this team has no chance of being a cup contender in 3 years.

Again, like it said, whether to trade Gaborik depends on if the Kings are going all in next year. The hypothetical roster you listed in your post is not even close to competing for the cup. Player by player it pales in comparison to the likes of the Blues, Lightening, Pens, Dallas etc. It might barely make the playoffs and get kicked out of the first round. That is fine in my book, as long as the kids develop and learn from it, like the Kings of 2010 and forward. But if the goal is to use the next two years to get the kids prepared to be contenders, then we don't need Gaborik to do that.
Click to expand...

WHOneedsSOX said:
That's a horrible bottom 6. No speed, no offense, nothing. Don't know if that's your cup contending lineup but the Kings aren't winning anything with that bottom 6.
Click to expand...


Fair enough however , we are not going to be bringing up the next Toffoli or Pearson. We need an injection of a pulse which rookies bring and some hunger. Mersch is a great puck possessing monster and goes to the front of the net . He would bring much needed intensity to the bottom 6. If we dont want to move King we move Clifford, who i think is useless. Dowd deserves his chance , he has energy and can provide a spark for the team. I also think he will bring more offense than Shore. Auger is intriguing option as well. Gravel and Forbort already upgrade our defense over the likes of Scuderi, Greene, Mcnabb , Mcbain.

Look at the Pens and Sharks. They have each 4-5 rookies on their roster who are big difference makers. Or for the Blues Fabbri and Parayko. We definitely have to give the kids a chance, so they play for less than a million contribute and we shed dead weight so we can add more important pieces. Might even give us a chance to get a 3rd line center.

Pearson-Kopitar-Gaborik
Lucic-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Fiddler/B.Richards-Brown
King-Dowd-Andreoff/Auger
Shore

Sounds much better ? Clifford is traded instead of King , the cap works with Richies cap hit going down, Lewis caphit gone, Clifford and Martinez save about 1 mill. The youngsters coming in save 1 mill. Greene gone saves 2.5 cap going up . Its very doable. We can ice a pretty good roster. You can sign a Vernon Fidler or Brad Richards for around 1.5-2 mill.

And the defense is just orgasmic ; judging by Sutters comments that 5-6 players can be on the roster that are in the AHL im hoping we see Gravel up full time and save cap space from Scuderi, Greene and co to addnother important pieces.

Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-Trade(Martinez+ for RHD)
Mcnabb/Forbort-UFA(Demers/Russell/Miller)

Will be one of the best defenses we have had in years. Remember the cup winning team in 2014 saw a rookie Muzzin with Doughty in the playoffs and a Mitchell mold player like Gravel and Voynov can be replaced with the trade. Regehr will be the UFA signed for the bottom pairing. There are many options that make us better than we currently are. Idk just my 2 cents but i like it!
 
AlphaBravo said:
With Sutter's signing soon to be announced, we can all just forget about getting Lewis and King. That will never happen unless Lewis demands more than $3 million. Expect those two on this team for better or worse.
Click to expand...



I hope aftwr Deans comments about adapting and changing and Sutters comments about adapting and having 5-6 guys in the AHL who can play in the NHL that Lewis is priced out because if he demands 2 million we still save 1 million by replacing him with Dowd . Lewis doesnt bring much to us besides intensity which the youngsters will provide
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
The one in which he was healthy most of the year. Also, even the low end is a 20+ goal pace...and that's ignoring assists.

It's a gamble but healthy Gaborik is scary Gaborik.
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Healthy Gaborik has gone off to hockey heaven. Averaged less than 60 games per season over the last 5 years. That's including 2011-12, when he played all 82 games. Take that season out and you're looking at ~50 games per season.

He has averaged ~20 goals a season for the last 5 seasons, again counting 11-12 when he scored 41. Take that out and you have 15 goals per season for the last 4.

I like Gaborik, but it's not looking good going forward. If the Kings can get something of value, then Lombardi should take a serious look.
 
It's impossible for a team with Doughty, Kopitar and Quick to tank. Unless ofcourse one of these 3 guys got injured.

It's also impossible to contend with a d-core as bad as our is. The division is really bad though, so the Kings will probably still be a playoff team next season.
 
lumbergh said:
Healthy Gaborik has gone off to hockey heaven. Averaged less than 60 games per season over the last 5 years. That's including 2011-12, when he played all 82 games. Take that season out and you're looking at ~50 games per season.

He has averaged ~20 goals a season for the last 5 seasons, again counting 11-12 when he scored 41. Take that out and you have 15 goals per season for the last 4.

I like Gaborik, but it's not looking good going forward. If the Kings can get something of value, then Lombardi should take a serious look.
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He's only had the classic Gaborik injury for a bit in the '15 season (soft tissue) with this year's injury being a fluke.

Agree that trading him sooner rather than later is smart to get out in front of his decline but, so far, he's averaging 27 goals a season for the Kings when including playoffs with 58 goals in 172 total games.

It didn't "look good" when he went to Columbus and appeared to be dead. He still has the wheels and the speed this team is lacking for the most part.

If they are going to compete next season, he needs to be on the roster and healthy. Totally get the fear of injury but it would be hard to replace his contribution with the team's current assets and at a similar/lower cap hit.
 
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