GDT: Offseason game thread

[WHOneedsSOX]

Brown has been a nonfactor for years now. Opposing teams don't have to account for him. He's not scouted. He doesn't draw top defensive pairings. He is a nonfactor, another faceless, low threat depth winger. For all of Gaborik's struggles this past year, he still needs to accounted for on the ice, and will draw coverage.

Brown was never a smart hockey player. He possessed freakish physical tools that allowed him to outwork opposing players. Now with his knee shot, and these tools slowly rusting away, his low hockey IQ has been exposed. He will never again crack 20 goals. He's done as a top six player.

With that said, it's obvious that Brown can be effective in a bottom six role. Unfortunately, he's being paid top six money. That's simply unacceptable. If you go down the list of players on this team, how much they're making, and what kind of impact they leave on any given game, Brown is the most glaring problem. He needs to be dealt with.

We'll see what Dean can pull out of his hat this offseason. But it should be clear to him, as it's clear to all of us, that he doesn't have a place on this team anymore with that cap hit. It's sad. It sucks. We all love the guy. If he was producing even 20-30-50, this would be a nonissue. But it's clear this guy just doesn't have it in the offensive zone anymore.

I'd even take 15-25-40 but he's not even getting close to that. Add in the horrible neutral zone turnovers and you have a pretty bad player. Already have one NZ turnover machine, don't need two of them.

 

[Cook24]

We should target Shattenkirk. He'll be a UFA after next season so St. Louis may entertain trading him. If Looch is resigned, use Pearson as trade bait.

 

[onlyalad]

Was listening to Sirius nhl this morning.
They were talking about trading Brown. They said either Brown or Gabi had to be traded.
Their opinion was Brown stays. He is too hard to unload. They talked about his leadership (they think he has)
They think Gabbi is easier to replace with young players. They also said Dean values Browns loyalty to the team and community.
If Brown were making 3 mil I would agree. Love the guy. Love he was underpaid for a long time. The Kings are now paying what he was worth when he was making 3 mil. Hoping the hockey fairy sprinkles magic dust in his gloves this off season

 

[TonySCV]

Brown is getting SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS next season.

*barf*

Wish he could re-discover his game, because it's been missing now for 2 full seasons.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Brown is getting SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS next season.

*barf*

Wish he could re-discover his game, because it's been missing now for 2 full seasons.

Three seasons actually. Observe his points per game average since 2012...

2011-12: .66 points per game
2012-13: .63 points per game
2013-14: .34 points per game
2014-15: .33 points per game
2015-16: .34 points per game

The past three seasons he's had 27 points, 27 points, 28 points, and he's only missed three games (all of which was in 2013-14).

There really is no excuse for his downfall in production, he is just a below average hockey player at this point.

Look at what Shane Doan is doing in his late 30s. The guy is 39 and he came off a season where he had 28 goals and 47 points. That is in his 20th season of hockey. I don't buy the excuse that he's played a bunch of games, that is complete ******** and an excuse I've seen used by those who don't know any better.

If Brown is ineffective as a top six forward and he's not very good as a checking line forward, then what the hell is he good for? Community service?

 

[BigKing]

Was listening to Sirius nhl this morning.
They were talking about trading Brown. They said either Brown or Gabi had to be traded.
Their opinion was Brown stays. He is too hard to unload. They talked about his leadership (they think he has)
They think Gabbi is easier to replace with young players. They also said Dean values Browns loyalty to the team and community.
If Brown were making 3 mil I would agree. Love the guy. Love he was underpaid for a long time. The Kings are now paying what he was worth when he was making 3 mil. Hoping the hockey fairy sprinkles magic dust in his gloves this off season

I can easily see Brown being a Dave Taylor figure for this organization, never playing with a different franchise.

Gaborik is easier to trade at a $4.8MM cap hit since he still appears to be a 20-goal scorer when healthy. Why trade him now though? Maybe it is easier for other teams to replace 20 goals but not the Kings.

I will be surprised if either is moved, but Brown more so.

If it weren't for Richards and others testing Dean's loyalty, it wouldn't even be a thought. Have a feeling that when it comes to "his guys", Brown is right at the forefront of the group.

 

[Herby]

A team that is already extremely thin on skill and speed is going to trade their fastest and most skilled winger?

Just move on from Lucic, write it off as yet another disaster move by Lombardi (basically every move since they got Gaborik).

 

[damacles1156]

You guys have this fantasy of NHL teams are littered with 20 Goal scorers everywhere in the lineup

Carter/Kopitar/Lucic/Toffoli scored 20+Goals this season, what do all these guys have in common ?

No teams third/fourth liner regulars are 20G scorers, heck they are barely even 10-15G scorers.

It's tough to score in the NHL for everyone.

Brown's production was fine for his role, not his pay grade, but for his role it was fine.

 

[damacles1156]

A team that is already extremely thin on skill and speed is going to trade their fastest and most skilled winger?

Just move on from Lucic, write it off as yet another disaster move by Lombardi (basically every move since they got Gaborik).

I don't think the trade was bad.

Resigning Lucic to a retirement contract will be a disaster though.

 

[The Tikkanen]

I don't think his energy or speed is the issue. He actually looked great this season in that regard. The problem is that he cannot finish and also, he has deviated from what initially made him successful: standing in front of the net like Lucic and getting those garbage goals. He is trying too hard and overcomplicated his role. On many occasions he comes flying into the blue line with the defender keeping him on the perimeter and just flinging the puck with a weak wrist shot. Also, because he does not have the set up skills like Kopitar, he cannot even use his energy to make a good play or pass.

He's on the perimeter too much and that may come from fatigue. Going to the dirty part of the ice takes up more energy, you're banging around, stopping and starting. On the outside you don't get hit as much and can coast. So while I agree with his positional play has fallen off I still believe it's all tied to his off season training program. He needs to get leaner, if that happens some of the things we ALL see might come back.

 

[damacles1156]

There is literally no one here ignoring Brown's production. No need for the red herring to prove your point.

For the role Brown played this year, his production was just fine if you ask me.

Unless people seriously think Any Kings player with third/Fourth line minutes, and some PP time is going to be a 15-20G, 45P bottom six player.(top six numbers on the Kings)...

Seriously, Toffoli is the first Kings player to hit 30G since 09-10.

 

[Minor Boarding]

For the role Brown played this year, his production was just fine if you ask me.

Unless people seriously think Any Kings player with third/Fourth line minutes, and some PP time is going to be a 15-20G, 45P(top six numbers on the Kings)...

Seriously, Toffoli is the first Kings player to hit 30G since 09-10.

no, it really wasn't.

 

[damacles1156]

no, it really wasn't.

So what numbers should Brown have had with his minutes ?

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Williams Kopitar Gaborik
Pearson Carter Toffoli
Mersch [Connor] Brown
King Dowd Nolan
Andreoff

Doughty Gravel
Muzzin Amart
McNabb Greene
Forbort/Scuderi

Quick
Jones

oh wait...

Exactly. I truly thought on draft day, the Kings were taking Kyle Connor. They were said to be high on him. He scored and led U of Mich 71 pts in 38 games as a Freshman. Oh well. He'd be our #1 prospect and ready by 2017-18 for sure. Jones? He was probably going to be dealt for some help elsewhere. Lucic for: Connor, Jones and Colin Miller was NOT a good deal.

 

[damacles1156]

Exactly. I truly thought on draft day, the Kings were taking Kyle Connor. They were said to be high on him. He scored and led U of Mich 71 pts in 38 games as a Freshman. Oh well. He'd be our #1 prospect and ready by 2017-18 for sure. Jones? He was probably going to be dealt for some help elsewhere. Lucic for: Connor, Jones and Colin Miller was NOT a good deal.

Why was it not a good deal ?

None of those prospects help the Kings contend now. The window is now.

Colin Miller is not a Defensive D-Man.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

For the role Brown played this year, his production was just fine if you ask me.

Unless people seriously think Any Kings player with third/Fourth line minutes, and some PP time is going to be a 15-20G, 45P(top six numbers on the Kings)...

Seriously, Toffoli is the first Kings player to hit 30G since 09-10.

I did a filter of NHL forwards who registered 40 or less points to get a frame of mind of the types of names who are capable of putting up AT LEAST 40 points or more than Brown's paltry 28 points. Those names include:

Jason Chimera, 40 points (averaged 14 mins of ice time)
Jamie McGinn, 39 points (averaged 14 mins)
Carl Hagelin, 39 points (averaged 15 mins)
Matt Beleskey, 37 points (averaged 16 mins)
Blake Comeau, 36 points (averaged 16 mins)
Andrew Shaw, 34 points (averaged 14 mins)
Erik Haula, 34 points (averaged 12 mins)
Casey Cizikas, 29 points (averaged 12 mins)
Antoine Roussel, 29 points (averaged 14 mins)
DUSTIN BROWN, 28 POINTS, (AVERAGED 16 MINS)

And like I said before, it goes beyond his points. All areas of his game have gotten worse, from passing to hanging onto the puck to making simple plays.

I can't believe some people think his performance was fine and acceptable. You guys must have low standards.

 

[damacles1156]

I did a filter of NHL forwards who registered 40 or less points to get a frame of mind of the types of names who are capable of putting up AT LEAST 40 points or more than Brown's paltry 28 points. Those names include:

Jason Chimera, 40 points (averaged 14 mins of ice time)
Jamie McGinn, 39 points (averaged 14 mins)
Carl Hagelin, 39 points (averaged 15 mins)
Matt Beleskey, 37 points (averaged 16 mins)
Blake Comeau, 36 points (averaged 16 mins)
Andrew Shaw, 34 points (averaged 14 mins)
Erik Haula, 34 points (averaged 12 mins)
Casey Cizikas, 29 points (averaged 12 mins)
Antoine Roussel, 29 points (averaged 14 mins)
DUSTIN BROWN, 28 POINTS, (AVERAGED 16 MINS)

And like I said before, it goes beyond his points. All areas of his game have gotten worse, from passing to hanging onto the puck to making simple plays.

So nine guys out of 30 NHL teams....

Two of them have 29 points, about what Third/Fourth liners score.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So nine guys out of 30 NHL teams....

Those are examples. There are many more, have at it if you'd like:
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?rep...points&aggregate=0&filter=points,lte,40&pos=F

 

[damacles1156]

Those are examples. There are many more, have at it if you'd like:
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?rep...points&aggregate=0&filter=points,lte,40&pos=F

For Browns pay grade, he is not producing enough.

For the Role, Sutter used him in, and the minutes he played, it was just fine.

Tanner Pearson was in a similar role, tweener role (more top six most nights) and produced Eight more points.

Other than that, Brown was an effective bottom six player.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Pretty sure most of those guys played more PP time and in a more offensive role. Chimera was on the Caps PP, Comeau was on the Avs, Hagelin played top 6 for the Pens, McGinn was in a top 6 role all season, Shaw spent time on Toews wing, Beleskey was on the Bruins PP.

 

[damacles1156]

Based on the link provided, I'll maybe make a spreadsheet.

Guys that played 14-16 minutes a game look to be anywhere between 25-35 points with a small select few(like 5) scoring 40+.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

For Browns pay grade, he is not producing enough.

For the Role, Sutter used him in, and the minutes he played, it was just fine.

Tanner Pearson was in a similar role tweener role (more top six most nights) and produced Eight more points.

Other than that, Brown was an effective bottom six player.

It wasn't just fine. Did you see the comments Sutter made towards Brown and his play throughout the season? It wasn't very complimentary of him.

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/201...-on-dustin-brown-he-has-to-be-a-better-player

“He hasn’t played really well lately,†Sutter said of Brown, who was held without a point in three games in a row and six of seven. “We’re getting into regular-season performances. They’re based on not just this year, but over the last couple seasons. He needs to be a better player.â€

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20151111/la-kings-coach-darryl-sutter-expects-more-from-dustin-brown

Asked if it was good to see Brown score his first goal of the season, Sutter said after the Kings’ 3-2 loss to the Arizona Coyotes, “Hopefully, he remembers how he did it. He’s got to play a power game. I’m not sure that was a part of his game tonight. That goal didn’t mean anything at the end.â€

https://frozenroyalty.net/2016/01/04/sutter-on-brown/

“We need him to be a good player for us,†Sutter emphasized. “We need him to play the role that he’s played for us when we’ve been a successful team. Hopefully, this is a step in the right direction.â€

There's more and I'm sure you can find 'em from Sutter's post game comments throughout the season on lakingsinsider, but he was quite critical of his performance and the team needing more out of him. They didn't get enough from Brown. He didn't play to his best, and I'm sure Brown and everyone within the Kings organization will tell you that.

 

[damacles1156]

It wasn't just fine. Did you see the comments Sutter made towards Brown and his play throughout the season? It wasn't very complimentary of him.

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/201...-on-dustin-brown-he-has-to-be-a-better-player


http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20151111/la-kings-coach-darryl-sutter-expects-more-from-dustin-brown


https://frozenroyalty.net/2016/01/04/sutter-on-brown/


There's more and I'm sure you can find 'em from Sutter's post game comments throughout the season on lakingsinsider, but he was quite critical of his performance and the team needing more out of him. They didn't get enough from Brown. He didn't play to his best, and I'm sure Brown and everyone within the Kings organization will tell you that.

I can find comments where Sutter was not happy with several Kings players play.

That's nothing new with Sutter. It's why Sutter put Brown where he belongs, in the bottom six.

You are 100% correct about Brown not producing enough for his pay.
But for his bottom six role, he is about league average it looks.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I can find comments where Sutter was not happy with several Kings players play.

That's nothing new with Sutter.

I'm sure you can, most us weren't pleased with the collective effort of this squad this season. But one thing consistent since 2014 is Dustin Brown's decline.

I didn't even get into his putrid shooting percentage, a statistic that is all on him.

 

[damacles1156]

The team wasn't even bad this season, they simply didn't play well when it counted.

This happens in Hockey.