GDT: Offseason game thread
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I hate Brown on this team as much as anyone, but the fact is he's just overpaid. If he was making 2 mill a year no one would be complaining. Also, he just doesn't give a **** anymore. He has won 2 cups, and I think he is over being a hockey player. He is just going through the motions. That said trading him is the best option for the kings, but he will veto because he has 49 kids, and he wouldn't want to move his family. I don't blame him for that, but at the end of the day its business.
Dustin Brown plays the 5th most minutes among forwards on the team. Only a minute less than Toffoli and Lucic. Hardly fair to call that a bottom sixer. If he was good in the other areas your typical third liner is good at that would be one thing but he's not.
Gaborik scored more goals in 30 less games played and playing fewer minutes playing all over the line up. You can't have a guy with a 5.8m cap hit scoring 11 goals a season. "What's the problem other than he is overpaid." is the understatement of the century.
Gaborik scored more goals in 30 less games played and playing fewer minutes playing all over the line up. You can't have a guy with a 5.8m cap hit scoring 11 goals a season. "What's the problem other than he is overpaid." is the understatement of the century.
Getting rid of Gaborik to keep Lucic is not the right move, the move is to get rid of Brown.
We need more skilled guys who can skate like Gaborik not more grinding forwards who go thru long stretches of not scoring like King and Brown.
As I stated in an earlier post, Brown doesn't fit anywhere anymore.
At this point he is a third line player, but so is Dwight King. No matter what center the Kings put there; Shore, Andreoff, Dowd, Vinny...no center should play between two big grinding forwards. If you replace King with Mersch, same problem. No speed, just Mersch and Brown on either wing. The only way you can counter this is moving Toffoli or Gaborik down to the 3rd line and Brown up. Those players are not 3rd line players.
Kings to revamp that 3rd line completely by dumping Brown and King - or at least Brown.
Mersch/King-Shore/Dowd-UFA (with speed) or re-sign Lewis
The 4th line essentially set with either Shore/Dowd flanked by either Andreoff/Clifford and Nolan at RW.
The 3rd line has been an issue since 2012 when it was King-Stoll-Lewis. That was a rookie King - who was motivated, and younger versions of Stoll and Lewis.
We need more skilled guys who can skate like Gaborik not more grinding forwards who go thru long stretches of not scoring like King and Brown.
As I stated in an earlier post, Brown doesn't fit anywhere anymore.
At this point he is a third line player, but so is Dwight King. No matter what center the Kings put there; Shore, Andreoff, Dowd, Vinny...no center should play between two big grinding forwards. If you replace King with Mersch, same problem. No speed, just Mersch and Brown on either wing. The only way you can counter this is moving Toffoli or Gaborik down to the 3rd line and Brown up. Those players are not 3rd line players.
Kings to revamp that 3rd line completely by dumping Brown and King - or at least Brown.
Mersch/King-Shore/Dowd-UFA (with speed) or re-sign Lewis
The 4th line essentially set with either Shore/Dowd flanked by either Andreoff/Clifford and Nolan at RW.
The 3rd line has been an issue since 2012 when it was King-Stoll-Lewis. That was a rookie King - who was motivated, and younger versions of Stoll and Lewis.
Reaper45
Registered User
So do you take Gaborik, whos skilled, but is on the wrong side of 30 and is made of glass or do you take Brown, who's not as skilled but who's a bet fit for the physical make up of this team but is overpaid.
Little Psycho
Registered User
Omni Owl
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- Mar 9, 2008
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The 3rd line is going to be an even bigger issue next year with Shore/Dowd centering it next year, though Dowd had some nice flashes. We're going to be missing Vinny in the 3C slot big time. That's another area DL has left neglected. Shore has shown nothing more than being a Trevor Lewis light, which isn't a compliment.
I looked at the UFA list for 3rd line centers or RW's...man, it's bad.
Vern Fiddler and Matt Cullen were the only names that stood out for me and those guys are old. The other guys like Neilson will be asking for more money than the Kings can pay.
At RW, or the Lewis replacement position....there are a few options. Fontaine, Parenteau...
Vern Fiddler and Matt Cullen were the only names that stood out for me and those guys are old. The other guys like Neilson will be asking for more money than the Kings can pay.
At RW, or the Lewis replacement position....there are a few options. Fontaine, Parenteau...
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
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Another question to ponder is, if they do end up signing Lucic, plus Toffoli and Pearson next year, how much can you invest in the wing position? We're all worried about Brown's contract, but would there be a case for trying to get rid of both Brown and Gaborik this summer? Not that I think either guy is really moveable.
After the last 2 years, I think there are too many questions to go all in. Sure, the not great players didn't play well against SJ, but nobody played well. At least in 2013, Quick was great until Chicago, and Voynov, Carter, and Richards led the way offensively. I get that Martinez was out, but at least show something individually. This team has to prove it again. I think they've lost whatever benefit of the doubt they had. In my mind I think they have anyway. That 2017 1st round pick, don't trade it. Not now at least. At the deadline, if things look alright, then maybe. If you could get Trouba without giving up Muzzin or even Martinez, I'd be surprised, but that would be a case where the 1st could go in a deal.
My guess is the Kings are stuck for the time being. There's going to be at least one big hole on the roster for the start of the season no matter what they do. They'll have to pay to get rid of Brown's contract, and even that might not work. They all talked a good game this year, but failed to deliver, on top of the 14-15 mess. I'm sure Lombardi will try something, I'm just no longer sure what's worth trying.
After the last 2 years, I think there are too many questions to go all in. Sure, the not great players didn't play well against SJ, but nobody played well. At least in 2013, Quick was great until Chicago, and Voynov, Carter, and Richards led the way offensively. I get that Martinez was out, but at least show something individually. This team has to prove it again. I think they've lost whatever benefit of the doubt they had. In my mind I think they have anyway. That 2017 1st round pick, don't trade it. Not now at least. At the deadline, if things look alright, then maybe. If you could get Trouba without giving up Muzzin or even Martinez, I'd be surprised, but that would be a case where the 1st could go in a deal.
My guess is the Kings are stuck for the time being. There's going to be at least one big hole on the roster for the start of the season no matter what they do. They'll have to pay to get rid of Brown's contract, and even that might not work. They all talked a good game this year, but failed to deliver, on top of the 14-15 mess. I'm sure Lombardi will try something, I'm just no longer sure what's worth trying.
Chazz Reinhold
Registered User
Toffoli would be going the other way in a deal for Trouba (or any other young, right handed top-4 D). There's no other way to make it work, especially if Lucic is going to be re-signed.
Kings need to rebuild down the middle and on defense. Being strong down the middle and on defense is what set the Kings up to win 2 Cups. Tying up inordinate amounts of cap space on streaky wingers (Brown and Gaborik included), instead of rebuilding a strong 1-6 on defense and 1-4 down the middle, will not get the Kings back to being a serious contender.
WHOneedsSOX
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- Mar 1, 2015
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Kings just don't have that cheap talent anymore. Toffoli+Pearson+Gaborik were making a combined, $5 million in 2014? Add in Brown and that's $11 million for your top 4 wings. Lucic, Toffoli, Gaborik, Pearson are now about $5 million more than that. Add in Brown and it's double.
If Lucic signs for 5.5-6M it leads me to believe that the type of defensman the Kings need simply isn't available at this point in time. Lucic isn't terrible at that price at all, it's a fair one for what he brings. If there isn't anything available right now, losing Lucic for nothing isn't a good option. Signing him is the correct move for now.
You never know what's going to happen during the season. There could be another Hamonic situation, a team expecting to contend may completely crap the bed, a team could fire their GM leading to changes, etc. Hell, Gravel may make us glad that we didn't waste assets on a top-4 guy. Or maybe Dowd comes in, tears it up, and we trade King/Clifford and a prospect for one.
That assumes nothing is available though. If someone could be had, I think DL would be much better off spending what we he has on the back end.
You never know what's going to happen during the season. There could be another Hamonic situation, a team expecting to contend may completely crap the bed, a team could fire their GM leading to changes, etc. Hell, Gravel may make us glad that we didn't waste assets on a top-4 guy. Or maybe Dowd comes in, tears it up, and we trade King/Clifford and a prospect for one.
That assumes nothing is available though. If someone could be had, I think DL would be much better off spending what we he has on the back end.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
Here we go again, DL thinking with his heart instead of his brain. Same thing that got him into trouble with Richards in 2014 and Stoll in 2012, but atleast those years he could justify the loyalty by saying they were coming off a Stanley Cup.
I don't know if we can trust Lombardi to make rational decisions on guys like Lucic, Brown, Clifford, King etc.
I don't know if we can trust Lombardi to make rational decisions on guys like Lucic, Brown, Clifford, King etc.
Omni Owl
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- Mar 9, 2008
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Agreed.
Double agreed. Don't forget that atrocious 4 year Matt Greene contract.
Tadite
Registered User
Dare we start to talk about the expansion draft? June 2017!
Existing teams would be allowed to protect seven forwards, three defencemen and one goaltender or eight skaters and a goaltender. Players under two years as a professional are exempt. The biggest news is that NMC can't be drafted and must be protected but critically NTC are not. So on the Kings I think we only have Kopitar as a NMC. Only a few Kings players have NTC like Brown and Quick.
A. No idea what the two years means (AHL counts? Or are ELC guys also exempt? Really matters for guys like Gravel).
B. We don't know how many teams created (at least one player is suppose to be lost with one and two with two).
Existing teams would be allowed to protect seven forwards, three defencemen and one goaltender or eight skaters and a goaltender. Players under two years as a professional are exempt. The biggest news is that NMC can't be drafted and must be protected but critically NTC are not. So on the Kings I think we only have Kopitar as a NMC. Only a few Kings players have NTC like Brown and Quick.
A. No idea what the two years means (AHL counts? Or are ELC guys also exempt? Really matters for guys like Gravel).
B. We don't know how many teams created (at least one player is suppose to be lost with one and two with two).
I hated the Lucic trade but LA has made it's bed with him. He fits the organization like a glove and all of the Kings had a bad playoffs not just him. He will be signed and he will be a big part of this team for the next few years.
Brown and Gabby will be shopped hard. Not saying they will be moved but DL has little other recourse.
Trouba would be awesome but LA can't afford him or give the necessary assets up for him.
Brown and Gabby will be shopped hard. Not saying they will be moved but DL has little other recourse.
Trouba would be awesome but LA can't afford him or give the necessary assets up for him.
Pearson Kopi Gabby
Lucic Carter Toffoli
King Dowd Brown
Mersch Andreoff Nolan
Clifford
Doughty Gravel
Muzzin LaDue
Amart Forbort
Greene
(Play the rookies/cap is what it is)
Quick
Budaj
Vinny/Versteeg/Schenn/Lewis all walk
Trade Shore/McNabb for picks.
Bury Scuderi
Lucic Carter Toffoli
King Dowd Brown
Mersch Andreoff Nolan
Clifford
Doughty Gravel
Muzzin LaDue
Amart Forbort
Greene
(Play the rookies/cap is what it is)
Quick
Budaj
Vinny/Versteeg/Schenn/Lewis all walk
Trade Shore/McNabb for picks.
Bury Scuderi
WHOneedsSOX
Registered User
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Actually the wording sounds like NMC's would have to be protected and can be drafted.
AlphaBravo
Registered User
If trading Toffoli is what it takes to get Trouba, then it is a price worth paying. With us likely resigning Lucic, we can't even afford Toffoli's $6-7 million price tag next year and solve our problem on defense. To be honest, after seeing what happened the past two seasons without that solid top 4 defenseman and what happened in the first round, we simply wont be a contender even if Toffoli nets 40 goals. Also, wingers are more easy to replace. I am sure Dean can acquire a cheap winger at the deadline that can net 15-20 goals a year (at least half of Toffoli's production).
AlphaBravo
Registered User
LaDue is fresh out of college with no professional experience. There is no way he will make the NHL club next year. We will likely see him on the team in 2-3 years.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Not at you in particular but I find it funny that a lot of this page is lamenting overpaid depth wingers then you bring up two guys that can't stick with their teams because they're underperforming AND soft...
Brown is a popular hate target but Damacles is 100% correct, look at his 'potential replacements' around the league and the grass is always greener.
He's simply overpaid for his role. He's a leader, energy guy, great PKer, fantastic corsi player which like it or not fits our system like a glove. It will cost more to move him AND bring in a sub-par replacement than simply to keep him unless DL has some magic beans.
I don't see Kempe OR LaDue making the team next year. Kempe needs to work on strength, overall consistency, and in-game consistency. LaDue will need to play en entire pro season like Gravel and continue to get stronger.
3C might hurt but we have options, someone could surprise by training camp. Guys like Dowd, Brodzinski, Amadio..who knows.
damacles1156
Registered User
- Feb 5, 2010
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100 Correct.
Dustin Brown also holds the upper hand with a NTC. You can bet, Brown will have the teams listed, that can fit him cap wise.
deeshamrock
Registered User
Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger Apr 27
Multiple NHL teams with continued interest in KHL defenceman Michal Kempny. Could agree to NHL contract as early as next week.
Kempny is 6'0 , 200 lb, who Dreger compared to Zidlicky.
I wonder if the Kings are in that mix?
Multiple NHL teams with continued interest in KHL defenceman Michal Kempny. Could agree to NHL contract as early as next week.
Kempny is 6'0 , 200 lb, who Dreger compared to Zidlicky.
I wonder if the Kings are in that mix?
Corsi? Brown is probably the reason that the Kings Corsi numbers don't correlate well with winning. If only we had a math major that could who felt like cranking out some R values. (Damn... I really want to look at the correlation Corsi has to Winning when guys like Lewis/Brown are moved off the team. I have a hunch the numbers will be hillarious.)
Grass is always greener:
Really? Lucic replaced the old version of Brown, and is an upgrade. The current suck ass version could literally be replaced by any wing the Kings already have on the roster. Even Nolan would be an upgrade because the savings in cap space could bring in another defender, making the team better overall.- Status
