GDT: Offseason game thread

[damacles1156]

Pretty sure most of those guys played more PP time and in a more offensive role. Chimera was on the Caps PP, Comeau was on the Avs, Hagelin played top 6 for the Pens, McGinn was in a top 6 role all season, Shaw spent time on Toews wing, Beleskey was on the Bruins PP.

I was hoping Brown would be more of a 15G 25A 40P guy. Sort of like Jannik Hansen is now (although he plays with Sedins a lot).

On the Kings bottom six with declining PP time, that would tough for even someone like Pearson(close though). Pearson has yet to crack 40P.

 

[damacles1156]

Hehe, just for fun.

The Last Kings bottom six player to score more than 35 points in a full season was.....

Wayne Simmonds, guess the year.

 

[Omni Owl]

Can't believe people are still defending Brown.

 

[Minor Boarding]

So what numbers should Brown have had with his minutes ?

He got most of his production being centered by Kopitar/Carter... He didn't produce those numbers with Lewis-King-Shore-LeCavalier...
If he produced the points mainly with bottom six players it would've been decent,
now it isn't.

 

[Minor Boarding]

The team wasn't even bad this season, they simply didn't play well when it counted.

This happens in Hockey.

disagree. The team relied on 3 defensman and the production of 4 forwards all year...
Thats it, that's what the teams downfall was. Once Martinez got injured it was game over...

 

[Minor Boarding]

Hehe, just for fun.

The Last Kings bottom six player to score more than 35 points in a full season was.....

Wayne Simmonds, guess the year.

Simmonds produced his numbers playing mainly with Handzus and other bottom six players.
Terry Murrays hockey wasn't exactly high octane either.

 

[Trolfoli]

For Browns pay grade, he is not producing enough.

For the Role, Sutter used him in, and the minutes he played, it was just fine.

Tanner Pearson was in a similar role, tweener role (more top six most nights) and produced Eight more points.

Other than that, Brown was an effective bottom six player.

This is completely wrong. Brown played plenty in the top 6 last year, probably more then in the bottom 6. I guess we could look up which players he was paired with the most.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Scoring log of all 29 points (including playoffs) from Dustin Brown:
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/b/browndu01/scoring/2016/

6 with Kopitar
5 with Carter
4 with Lucic
4 with Pearson
4 with Doughty
4 with Shore
4 with Lewis
4 with Muzzin
4 with Martinez
4 with Schenn
2 with Clifford
2 with Lecavalier
2 with King
1 with Gaborik
1 with Toffoli
1 with McNabb

Brown certainly did get opportunities as a top six forward throughout parts of the season, he just never gave the coaching staff any reason to leave him there because as we all know by now, he sucks a line dry of any chemistry because of his constant mishandling of the puck.

 

[damacles1156]

Scoring log of all 29 points (including playoffs) from Dustin Brown:
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/b/browndu01/scoring/2016/

6 with Kopitar
5 with Carter
4 with Lucic
4 with Pearson
4 with Doughty
4 with Shore
4 with Lewis
4 with Muzzin
4 with Martinez
4 with Schenn
2 with Clifford
2 with Lecavalier
2 with King
1 with Gaborik
1 with Toffoli
1 with McNabb

Brown certainly did get opportunities as a top six forward throughout parts of the season, he just never gave the coaching staff any reason to leave him there because as we all know by now, he sucks a line dry of any chemistry because of his constant mishandling of the puck.

So he produced half his points with top six players, and the rest with Bottom six assignments. The vast majority of it at Even Strength....

What's the problem ? Other than he is overpaid.

Also are you trying to say, that you expected Brown to be a top six player this year ? Is that what you are saying ?

Cause that would have been an unrealistic expectation of Brown if you ask me, after his last two seasons prior.

I could probably dig up posts from last year by a lot of people on this board saying Brown should never been in the top six ever again.

Well Sutter did the right thing, and put Brown where he belongs this year, the Bottom six.

 

[damacles1156]

Simmonds produced his numbers playing mainly with Handzus and other bottom six players.
Terry Murrays hockey wasn't exactly high octane either.

Is Sutter hockey high octane ? Also Sutter runs the same system Terry Murray does pretty much.

 

[damacles1156]

disagree. The team relied on 3 defensman and the production of 4 forwards all year...
Thats it, that's what the teams downfall was. Once Martinez got injured it was game over...

So a 100+ point team that almost won the Division, is a bad team ? Is that what you are saying ?

Set a Kings franchise record in wins too didn't they ?

With the way the Cap is, and expansion being uncertain. I am just betting Lombardi doesn't do much.

His hands are kinda tied.

 

[Trolfoli]

So he produced half his points with top six players, and the rest with Bottom six assignments. The vast majority of it at Even Strength....

What does even strength have to do with anything? I remember sitting through Brown/Stoll/Williams as the 2nd power play unit. Brown doesn't get PP time because of Brown. He hasn't even found a way to be effective on the Kings PP. Which would take standing in front of the goalie while Muzzin fires the puck all over creation. That's it... that's all he has to do... and yet isn't able to find a way of getting it done. That's on Brown.

 

[Trolfoli]

So a 100+ point team that almost won the Division, is a bad team ? Is that what you are saying ?

Set a Kings franchise record in wins too didn't they ?

With the way the Cap is, and expansion being uncertain. I am just betting Lombardi doesn't do much.

His hands are kinda tied.

Scuderi/Doughty
Muzzin/Schenn

That is a bad top 4, for a team built on defense.

It's cool if Lombardi isn't able to get anything done because his hands are tied. Then the state of the team will remain where it is today. Not a contender.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So he produced half his points with top six players, and the rest with Bottom six assignments. The vast majority of it at Even Strength....

What's the problem ? Other than he is overpaid.

Also are you trying to say, that you expected Brown to be a top six player this year ? Is that what you are saying ?

Cause that would have been an unrealistic expectation of Brown if you ask me, after his last two seasons prior.

I could probably dig up posts from last year by a lot of people on this board saying Brown should never been in the top six ever again.

Well Sutter did the right thing, and put Brown where he belongs this year, the Bottom six.

Brown's play has gone down the toilet. That's what I'm saying. He's not even that good of a bottom six player. There is no consistency in his game, there is not a single part of the game he excels at. Any dummy can throw a hit. Would you be satisfied with a more expensive version of John Zeiler? Notice that other bottom six guys aren't getting as much attention because they produce as expected out of them, and are paid as such. Brown however is a special circumstance and the team can't waste away so much cap space on such a mediocre player, and that's putting it nicely.

 

[Minor Boarding]

So a 100+ point team that almost won the Division, is a bad team ? Is that what you are saying ?

Set a Kings franchise record in wins too didn't they ?

With the way the Cap is, and expansion being uncertain. I am just betting Lombardi doesn't do much.

His hands are kinda tied.

I think the 1st round performance did speak enough to answer your question.
That record would be more impressive if it didn't involve 3on3 and shootouts hockey...

 

[Minor Boarding]

Brown's play has gone down the toilet. That's what I'm saying. He's not even that good of a bottom six player. There is no consistency in his game, there is not a single part of the game he excels at. Any dummy can throw a hit. Would you be satisfied with a more expensive version of John Zeiler? Notice that other bottom six guys aren't getting as much attention because they produce as expected out of them, and are paid as such. Brown however is a special circumstance and the team can't waste away so much cap space on such a mediocre player, and that's putting it nicely.

I fully agree with this.

 

[Minor Boarding]

So he produced half his points with top six players, and the rest with Bottom six assignments. The vast majority of it at Even Strength....

What's the problem ? Other than he is overpaid.

Also are you trying to say, that you expected Brown to be a top six player this year ? Is that what you are saying ?

Cause that would have been an unrealistic expectation of Brown if you ask me, after his last two seasons prior.

I could probably dig up posts from last year by a lot of people on this board saying Brown should never been in the top six ever again.

Well Sutter did the right thing, and put Brown where he belongs this year, the Bottom six.

What we try to explain you is that Brown sucks as a bottom 6 player too. No consistency. He lost his mojo on ice and just floats and shoots weak wristers on goalies chests. He got most of his points in his spurs on the top2 lines, there is little to no production coming from him in a bottom6 role and he mismanages way too many pucks at the offensive blueline...
It would be awesome if he could find his game say at least on the PK and ES by blocking shots and becoming a defensive specialist on wing (ala Handzus/Stoll but as a winger), because right now he's not a good player even without the contract...

Is Sutter hockey high octane ? Also Sutter runs the same system Terry Murray does pretty much.

Exactly my point...

 

[deeshamrock]

For what it's worth, per the 'source' Lucic's camp is in the 6M per range, which would be inclusive of the home town discount, Kings are in the 5.5 area on a LTC.
Not a good deal, IMO, but as Pierre LeBrun pointed out during the Kings -Sharks series, Lombardi told him he 'adores' Lucic...


Article mentions getting a top 4 D still a top priority, however the 2 mentioned, Hamhuis (said post season he's not leaving Vancouver) and Trouba. Trouba would be a good fit, young , physical, can move the puck but alot of teams are interesting in him and the Kings would have to find a way to fit the 6 yr/ 5 M per deal he is rumored to asking (based on what Morgan Reilliy got). Adding that to 6M for Lucic and potentially 7M plus of Toffoli, DL has his work cut out for him.

But I do think signing or trading for a D to incorporate into the top 4 is at the top of his list.

http://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rumors-los-angeles-kings-milan-lucic-gaborik-brown/2016/04/29/

 

[kingskring]

hmmm

gary lawless ‏@garylawless 1m1 minute ago
More #nhl expansion draft info. sources indicate no-moves must be protected by teams. no-trade clauses not exempt and can be left exposed.

 

[Omni Owl]

For what it's worth, per the 'source' Lucic's camp is in the 6M per range, which would be inclusive of the home town discount, Kings are in the 5.5 area on a LTC.
Not a good deal, IMO, but as Pierre LeBrun pointed out during the Kings -Sharks series, Lombardi told him he 'adores' Lucic...


Article mentions getting a top 4 D still a top priority, however the 2 mentioned, Hamhuis (said post season he's not leaving Vancouver) and Trouba. Trouba would be a good fit, young , physical, can move the puck but alot of teams are interesting in him and the Kings would have to find a way to fit the 6 yr/ 5 M per deal he is rumored to asking (based on what Morgan Reilliy got). Adding that to 6M for Lucic and potentially 7M plus of Toffoli, DL has his work cut out for him.

But I do think signing or trading for a D to incorporate into the top 4 is at the top of his list.

http://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rumors-los-angeles-kings-milan-lucic-gaborik-brown/2016/04/29/

God ****ing damnit that's way too much for Lucic unless its a 2 year deal. I don't give a **** how much DL "adores" him, he disappeared in the playoffs and took unnecessary penalties. Priority HAS to be a top 4 Dman, not re-signing ****ing Lucic. DL is not thinking with his head anymore.

 

[TonySCV]

Brown had 2 full seasons (arguably 3, but figure after his first poor season he was told to pick it up) to turn it around, and failed.

If he were being paid a million bucks for his production - fine. The problem is, he's not, and he's not been all that effective in any role he's been given over the last two seasons. Is that Dean's fault? No. He didn't know Brown would fall of a cliff, but now that he has seen it - Dean has to look for any opportunity to offload him and that albatross of a contract.

God ****ing damnit that's way too much for Lucic unless its a 2 year deal. I don't give a **** how much DL "adores" him, he disappeared in the playoffs and took unnecessary penalties. Priority HAS to be a top 4 Dman, not re-signing ****ing Lucic. DL is not thinking with his head anymore.

Meh. You're way more worked up about that than I am. I want to see Lucic back next season, or the team is going to struggle being top-tier. His good this season far outweighed the bad.

 

[Omni Owl]

This team is going no where with Lucic on board. He had a decent regular season but an abysmal post season, much like Toffoli. He ****ed over the team more than once with bad penalties and poor play. That contract is going to turn into a deal like Brown's, a huge ****ing albatross that will be untradeable. If DL can somehow land Trouba than I won't mind if we re-sign Looch, just address the most obvious and important hole first. Keep in mind Lucic is going to decline (unless he's Doan reincarnate), much like Brown.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

This team is going no where with Lucic on board. He had a decent regular season but an abysmal post season, much like Toffoli. He ****ed over the team more than once with bad penalties and poor play. That contract is going to turn into a deal like Brown's, a huge ****ing albatross that will be untradeable. If DL can somehow land Trouba than I won't mind if we re-sign Looch, just address the most obvious and important hole first. Keep in mind Lucic is going to decline (unless he's Doan reincarnate), much like Brown.

How in the world are the Kings going to be able to get Trouba though? I think Dean has to figure out what he wants to do first (which he probably does). Is he building for next season or is he building for the future? Trouba is definitely going to cost a first round pick + more. Is he willing to give up Kempe + d prospect + a first? That might not even be enough either.

 

[Omni Owl]

I'm not sure, Trouba is a pipe dream in my mind. My point is that I'd be able to swallow a Lucic re-signing if DL handled the top 4 D situation first. I think that's way too much money for Lucic in the first place. We're going to be regretting that contract in the future, much like Brown/Richards.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

I'm not sure, Trouba is a pipe dream in my mind. My point is that I'd be able to swallow a Lucic re-signing if DL handled the top 4 D situation first. I think that's way too much money for Lucic in the first place. We're going to be regretting that contract in the future, much like Brown/Richards.

When's the next lockout coming? 2019 as an early opt out? So sign Lucic for 6-7 years and then use the darn compliance buyout this time.