GDT: Offseason game thread

[DocWest]

Trading Toffoli would be insane. However if we do trade him, it can only be in a package deal along with Kempe and a few draft picks for a return of a single meh player on the Leafs' current roster.

 

[kingsfan28]

well that outcome wasn't as expected. long time, folks.

to me this was more disappointing than last years failure to even qualify. supposedly this team that was looking for redemption, a chip on the shoulder, every other lame sports analogy, etc.

they fell flat on their face when it mattered most. they were outplayed, out hustled and the scoreboard bore that out.

the org and the team need to take a serious look in the mirror and individually reassess what they bring to the end result.

DL -

needs to take some of the blame for making some moves that cost them both on the ice and also prospects/draft picks. the Sekera trade especially now stands out as a major mistake. yes he was scrambling trying to recover from Voynov's mess, but that was a disaster in the making. from the start there was always going to be a problem having the cap room to re-sign Sekera and of course he jumped to EDM for the paycheck.

next are some of the current contracts and player decisions that have been largely based on past results and loyalty. the Brown albatross contract is his new nightmare, which will continue to present issues for years to follow. based on what he did in '12 and '14, along with the timing made this a tough call for DL. its a brutal situation for a guy that has meant so much, but is quickly declining or totally lost his confidence.

the depth of plumbers on the roster needs to change moving forward. the game as always evolves and LA now looks big, tired and slow to often. personally i've had enough or D King and hope to never see him on the ice for LA again. that last stat i heard mentioned was he was without a point in like his last 19 games, not even an assist. i've heard enough about his Corsi rankings and the other "attributes", enough is a enough. the guy is now a liability on the offensive side, because he can't produce. i'm tired of watching him scrum on the walls with zero results.

Totally agree with this point. We win game 3, Sutter promotes King to the top line because...? Then he leaves him there the rest of the series, including an elimination game. He was flat out awful. Why not load up the top line and go for it? He refused to change anything. King had and has no business being anywhere near the top 6. Once again Sutter stubborness was all over this series.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Great post Whiskey.

I think Sutter's propensity for staying the course and playing vets worked in the past because the vets didn't suck. Scuds, Mitchell, Regehr were various shades of slow and didn't do much with the puck but get it out, but they played hardcore defense and DID get the puck out. They were reliable, steady. 2016 Scuds, Schenn, McNabb, didn't do much with OR without the puck and Sutter's reliance on vets hurt in this case because Gravel/Forbort didn't get enough seasoning to replace Martinez when he went down (I think trying would have been better than not though). ALso totally agreed with the redundancies on the roster, and I never, EVER thought Sutter would put Dwight King and his continually worsening play on the 'top' line. Derek Armstrong syndrome.

IT's like the Kings' system--when it works, it works, but when it doesn't, it looks terrible. Just like when we're talking about other teams "overcoaching" (massive lineup changes every game, swapping goalies after a loss), Sutter "undercoaching" (rarely changing anything, relying on vets, try try again) looks awful in defeat.

I don't think we need to overreact, but the roster and the system DO need an overhaul of some sort. Luckily the issues are clear and as I've said before DL doens't have the nostalgia excuse anymore.

 

[Trolfoli]

Totally agree with this point. We win game 3, Sutter promotes King to the top line because...? Then he leaves him there the rest of the series, including an elimination game. He was flat out awful. Why not load up the top line and go for it? He refused to change anything. King had and has no business being anywhere near the top 6. Once again Sutter stubborness was all over this series.

Sutter was using the Kopitar line as a shutdown line. It wasn't about generating offense. King wasn't moved up to the first line as much as Kopitar was moved into a different role.

The time to move Sutter was before missing the playoffs last year and going out in the first round this year. Now the team needs a slight re-tool... There's no point in moving him now.

Move some pieces for some assets, develop assets.. try to get things back on track in 1-3 years. Sutter can be replaced then. If/When the team is looking to turn the corner.

Same thing with Brown. Makes no sense to move him now.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Totally agree with this point. We win game 3, Sutter promotes King to the top line because...? Then he leaves him there the rest of the series, including an elimination game. He was flat out awful. Why not load up the top line and go for it? He refused to change anything. King had and has no business being anywhere near the top 6. Once again Sutter stubborness was all over this series.

This is the general criticism of Sutter(and probably all coaches really) in a nutshell, and it's funny how it happens. In your 2nd sentence, Sutter changed things. By the end of the paragraph, Sutter refuses to change things.

I get agreeing or disagreeing with what Sutter does, but we call him a mad scientist with a blender all the time. We also always say he's stubborn. Everybody sees what they want to see, as all aspects are present.

 

[Trolfoli]

Sorry... got the insomnia... was just thinking about Enroth not being happy with his 16 games played this year. 7,W/5,L/1,OT/2,SO

What was even the point of bringing him in. They could have just stuck with Berube.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Sorry... got the insomnia... was just thinking about Enroth not being happy with his 16 games played this year. 7,W/5,L/1,OT/2,SO

What was even the point of bringing him in. They could have just stuck with Berube.

the point is in case Quick goes down, which I have confidence that management know that the possibilities are greater with Quick than most goalies

Quick's style of play almost guarantees an injury, you don't need foresight to predict this

we were lucky having a Scrivens/Jones tandem a couple of seasons back, and we were lucky that Quick didn't get injured this season

before i say ''told you so'', LA better solidify the back end with a Reimer type back-up

because if we're stuck with a Budaj/X tandem for 3-4 weeks; goodbye 2017-18 season

 

[KingPuckChoo]

things to be addressed by LA: #3C/top 4D/#2G

i.e.

Backes @ $4.5m/3-4yrs
Hamhuis @ $4m/4yrs
Reimer @ $1.5m/2yrs

we have approx $8.6m in cap space, so one minor trade (i.e. Clifford) would help us fit all this in (and this is excluding the possibility of a cap increase by a 1m or so..)

and if DL manages to dump a Brown/Gaborik/Greene on a team then more power to him

 

[Kingsfan1]

Backes would be the ****in ideal # 3. Prototypical Dean and Kings forward wow . I hppe Blues get bounced in 2nd round so Backes decides to come here for a chance at a cup. Sign 3 year short deal. Somehow dump Brown and we are game. Resign Versteeg for cheap. I believe in Dean. I think Greene retires and joins the front office clearing up an extra 2.5. Resign Lucic like we are rumored to do so. Trade King for extra cap space to promote Mersch from within. Resign Schenn for cheap possibly for #6 role. Richards cap hit goes down as well. Caps going up a little. Might work if we trade Brown. I think we finally do. I hope and pray we do.

Cap geeks ?? Does it work

Pearson-Kopitar-Gaborik - Pearson improved alot could break out
Lucic-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Backes-Versteeg
Clifford-Dowd-Andreoff
Shore

Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-Martinez
Mcnabb-Schenn
Forbort

Quick
Ufa

 

[kingsholygrail]

All these proposals that rely on trading Brown are pipe dreams.

 

[funky]

All these proposals that rely on trading Brown are pipe dreams.

Agreed, not one team would want him. DL's second biggest screw up to date. Vastly overpaid and everyone knew it at the time. Everyone was thinking 4.5 mil territory. No agent, long term, wanted to stay. DL rolled out the shiny new red carpet. He was still producing somewhat, lots of people wanted him no where near the first line then. Then he fell off a cliff to add insult to injury.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Backes would be the ****in ideal # 3. Prototypical Dean and Kings forward wow . I hppe Blues get bounced in 2nd round so Backes decides to come here for a chance at a cup. Sign 3 year short deal. Somehow dump Brown and we are game. Resign Versteeg for cheap. I believe in Dean. I think Greene retires and joins the front office clearing up an extra 2.5. Resign Lucic like we are rumored to do so. Trade King for extra cap space to promote Mersch from within. Resign Schenn for cheap possibly for #6 role. Richards cap hit goes down as well. Caps going up a little. Might work if we trade Brown. I think we finally do. I hope and pray we do.

Cap geeks ?? Does it work

Pearson-Kopitar-Gaborik - Pearson improved alot could break out
Lucic-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Backes-Versteeg
Clifford-Dowd-Andreoff
Shore

Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-Martinez
Mcnabb-Schenn
Forbort

Quick
Ufa

the D... please....no please...

and Versteeg is as good as gone! it won't work if we keep Lucic and sign Backes (well because im also assuming that we're signing at least one D...)

Greene was skating and i doubt he retires without attempting at hockey for another season

 

[KingsFan7824]

All these proposals that rely on trading Brown are pipe dreams.

It's not so much the idea of trading Brown, it's the idea of trading Brown to open up all that cap space that's the pipe dream. With the way Ranger fans talk about them, if the Kings wanted to take M.Staal or Girardi back for Brown, they might do that. Not that fans have any say, but the idea would make some sense.

Nobody is just going to take Brown to help the Kings out though. Not the Coyotes, or Devils, or Hurricanes, or Sabres, or any other team just trying to reach the floor. You'd have to give them a 1st, or a 1st and Kempe, or something like that, to make 6 more years of Brown's contract worth their time. They're not expecting to suck forever. Teams can reach the cap floor in easier ways than taking Brown. You can sign some washed up vet at $6 million for 1 year, and then maybe trade that guy at the deadline.

 

[Fishhead]

All these proposals that rely on trading Brown are pipe dreams.

I agree that much couldn't be had for him and we'd have to up the ante, but I also think that Brown also holds value more around the league than we fans think. His leadership is highly valued, and it's not like his work ethic has waned. A lot of GM's think they can totally turn a guy around with a change of scenery, Dean just needs to find the GM that feels that way about Brown.

 

[Trolfoli]

the point is in case Quick goes down, which I have confidence that management know that the possibilities are greater with Quick than most goalies

Quick's style of play almost guarantees an injury, you don't need foresight to predict this

we were lucky having a Scrivens/Jones tandem a couple of seasons back, and we were lucky that Quick didn't get injured this season

before i say ''told you so'', LA better solidify the back end with a Reimer type back-up

because if we're stuck with a Budaj/X tandem for 3-4 weeks; goodbye 2017-18 season

I just don't see Enroth saving the season if Quick went down for an extended period of time. Maybe he could have stepped up his game.

If the cap comes in at 74, the Kings are looking at a possible roster of
Lucic(6)/Kopitar/Gaborik
Brown/Carter/Toffoli
King/Dowd/Pearson
Clifford/Shore/Nolan
Andy/Mersch

Gravel/Doughty
Muzzin/Martinez
McNabb(1.5)/Greene
Forbort

With about 1.25 for a backup. This comes in right under 74M, depending on what some guys resign for. Could be + or - half million here or there.

Clifford/King, moving these guys doesn't really help. 1.6/1.9, they have to be replaced with someone making 0.6-1M so you're shaving less then 1M off the cap after replacing them.

3C would have to wait for the trade deadline.

Defense would be in the same boat as this year. 1 injury to Doughty/Muzzin/Martinez and you can flush the whole year.

If Lucic walks you need another top 6 wing. Brown is on the 2nd line. That's already banking on Pearson/Kempe being able to step into a top 6 role, without thinking about a replacement for Lucic.

Kings need a top 6 wing, (if Brown/Pearson/Kempe can adequately fill one of the spots in the top 6), 3C (Dowd/Shore), top 4D(Gravel/Forbort). There is no way to fill all the holes currently. Also Lombardi signaling he's not going all in at the trade deadline. (5 year plan)

Could sit around and wait for the cap to grow, but Toffoli/Doughty will get new contracts at some point, that will cut into that.

Kings pretty much need Shore/Dowd to turn into a 3C that can win a cup and Gravel to turn into a top 4 D on their cheap contracts. I don't see how this happens.

If you can't fill all the holes what do you do? Nothing?

 

[Seventyx7]

DL needs to get back to the Kings identity and what made us successful; building from the net out and allowing Quick the confidence to be aggressive. Priority needs to be top 4 RHD, then #3C, then lastly the scoring wingers. That means Lucic goes, and if TT (who we all love obviously) being moved is required to get the Hamonic/Trouba we need before his huge payday, so be it. FAR too much cap tied up on the wing in Gaborik/Lucic/Brown/TT soon. Clearing a King or Clifford contract isn't going to solve that.

If we are going to be weak somewhere, it should be on the wing.

 

[Basilisk]

I agree that much couldn't be had for him and we'd have to up the ante, but I also think that Brown also holds value more around the league than we fans think. His leadership is highly valued, and it's not like his work ethic has waned. A lot of GM's think they can totally turn a guy around with a change of scenery, Dean just needs to find the GM that feels that way about Brown.

I'll tell you this. I personally have nothing to do with any of the up and coming expansion teams, but if I was the owner, I'd tell my GM to go out and get Dustin Brown. I'd want to grow my culture with him as the focal point. He brings Cup-winning experience, Captain-grade leadership, and he doesn't take shifts off. It doesn't matter that his skill has declined. If I own an expansion team, I wouldn't expect my team to challenge for a Cup until a decade or so has passed, anyway. And forget about the cap ceiling. I'd be more inclined to focus on the cap floor. And that doesn't include handing out $5 mil per year contracts to minor leaguers. That includes making the right deals at the right time. I'd love to start off an expansion team with a bunch of high-priced, over-paid vets who have a winning pedigree.

 

[KingsFan7824]

If we are going to be weak somewhere, it should be on the wing.

With most GM's thinking the same way. It took Johansen to get Jones. Even though he played RW when he first got here, Carter could play center, and has ended up being a center for the most part for the Kings. Hamonic or Trouba, they might get traded for each other, which would make more sense for the Jets and Islanders than getting Toffoli for either guy, and making your defensive group worse. Unless they have ready replacements for Hamonic or Trouba, like the Kings had with Voynov.

The Kings biggest needs are going to be the most difficult to get done. If this summer is about trading Brown, and getting a quality top 4 defenseman, especially a right handed one, then it's probably going to be a long summer.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

Budaj's made a solid case for being Quick's back-up next season and he has a cheap cap hit, 600K in the NHL.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Buying out Brown isn't the worst option.

http://www.generalfanager.com/buyouts/959

Better to have six additional seasons of a cap hit of $1,805,555 through 2028 than to have $5,875,000 of cap space wasting away at such a useless player.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

things to be addressed by LA: #3C/top 4D/#2G

i.e.

Backes @ $4.5m/3-4yrs
Hamhuis @ $4m/4yrs
Reimer @ $1.5m/2yrs

we have approx $8.6m in cap space, so one minor trade (i.e. Clifford) would help us fit all this in (and this is excluding the possibility of a cap increase by a 1m or so..)

and if DL manages to dump a Brown/Gaborik/Greene on a team then more power to him

The Kings need a forward who will be able to get under the skin of his opponents and rattle the likes of Getzlaf, Kesler, Pavelski, Thornton, Couture, etc. That's what this team has been missing for the past couple of seasons. Brown used to draw the ire of his opponents but now he's nothing more than an overpaid version of John Zeiler.

Guys like Stoll and Richards were good at that as well up until 2014. Sadly we can't expect Dowd or Shore to play that role, so they do have to look elsewhere for a player who can be good at that (damn do I miss having an Ian Laperriere on the team).

Backes could play that role but he's going to cost a lot as a UFA, so scratch him off. As for of trade options go, the Coyotes may move Hanzal and he could play that role. Another option outside of the NHL whom the Kings would have to trade the rights for is Vladimir Sobotka. He's in the KHL now but rumor is he may want to come back to the NHL.

Signing a guy like Helm would be a great addition because he would give the team a huge boost in speed but again, being a UFA, he may cost more than retaining a guy like Lewis would. Steve Ott will be a UFA but he's 33 and I'm not sure if he has much left in him. Then again you look at guys like Fiddler and Cullen and look at how great they've been as 3rd line center options for their respective clubs in these playoffs.

The Kings need to be an agitating team against opponents so they have to look at adding those types of players. Didn't seem like they did enough to rattle any of San Jose's top players in these playoffs nor have they been able to do the same to the Ducks during the regular season since the Ducks added Ryan Kesler. It's been frustrating seeing division rivals getting in Doughty's face and not seeing anyone do the same to the top guys on the opposition. That needs to change next season.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Ducks also have Garbutt, who can be annoying.

The Mayor linked an interview he did for the NHL Network, he thinks Brown is moveable and there is a market for him. I tend to agree.

You're still talking about a player who had 6 goals during the last cup run and only a few seasons out of a productive season on paper.

If Horton can get traded for Clarkson and Gagner can get traded for Pronger, anything is possible.

I think we can all agree Brown offers more than Gaborik, who is older and oft injured and mostly one dimensional. I don't see him moving.

 

[BigKing]

Dowd does agitate and, in today's weak NHL, what he was doing is good enough in an agitator role.

The problem with Brown isn't the loss of penalties from when guys got mad at him, but the lack of drawing penalties from diving on hooks etc. Now he just falls and the refs are wise to his rep and he gets zero calls.

This guy used to lead the league in penalties drawn. Now he gets blatantly tripped in a playoff game and nothing happens.

Regardless, he could definitely be traded. Kings probably have to take back some salary but I believe he can be traded.

This team isn't getting Backes. Hamhuis at 4/4 is asinine as well: guy could have gone to a contender at the deadline and basically nixed it.

The answer is going to have to come from within. So the Kings have an awesome development staff and the AHL team has been at the top of the league the last few seasons? Well...let's see it.

Team still has Kopitar,Carter,Toffoli, Lucic (most likely), Gaborik, Pearson up front and Doughty/Muzzin/Martinez on the back end. There isn't going to be much money to spend so--barring some KHL signing or something--I don't expect much different next season except for AHL graduates in the Bottom 6 and somewhere in our #4-7 spots on defense.

I don't hang my hat on the regular season point total, but they did get over 100 points and netted 48 wins with the garbage everyone wants to toss out. Need better skating and puck poise on defense? Gravel is going to get every shot to be that guy. Need more of a spark and young legs in the Bottom 6? Enter Mersch and Dowd.

You are all going to be blown away too when Lewis is re-signed. I see them making room for him somehow over the pipe dream that is a young, RHD with Top 2 potential.

You can't stay at the top in a cap world without ELCs making key contributions, plus a little luck. Luck left the building after 2014 and none of the ELCs look to be instant impact; however, there is the potential down there with some guys to impact this team positively in supporting roles with an outside chance at a #4 d-man.

Going to need to see it.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Just for fun (I not advocating this), if Edmonton wins the 1st overall pick, would they be willing to trade it to the Kings for Muzzin +? This will never happen, but imagine this scenario. We trade Muzzin and let's say Kempe to Edmonton for first overall, we draft Matthews, and sign Yandle in the offseason. Our lineup would look like this. We are still weak on defense or maybe the same as this season, but our center depth suddenly gets better.

Lucic-Kopitar-Gaborik
King-Carter-Toffoli
Pearson-Matthews-Versteeg
Clifford-Dowd-AA

Gravel-DD
Martinez-Yandle
McNabb-Greene

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

McDonagh might be on the trade block? Man, what could the Kings possibly give up to get the guy without including Toffoli? Pearson + Kempe + the next 10 first round picks?