GDT: Offseason game thread

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With largely-immovable long-term contracts to guys like Brown, Gaborik, Kopitar, and Carter, would it be in our best interest to trade Tyler Toffoli for a young defenseman and forward locked up longer-term? Something like Travis Hamonic and Brock Nelson or Jonas Brodin and Charlie Coyle. Or even straight-up for Justin Faulk or Adam Larsson, though I'm not sure the Hurricanes or Devils would do that.

Trying to think outside the box here.

You have to give to get. If we trade TT to get a solid top 2 defenseman (Harmonic or Trouba et al.), we can always pick up a winger around the trade deadline that can provide us with a 10-20 goal season (someone like Ladd, McGinn, Perron type). Of course, that winger wont be of TT's caliber and will not truly replace TT, who is a very special sniper. But you have to prioritize. Also, consider the amount of money TT will want when his contract is up next year. He is no longer a cost controlled player.

The fact remains that you cannot trade your garbage (Brown, King, Clifford etc) in a package deal to get the likes of Trouba or Harmonic. It ain't happening. But we need to take a step back to reestablish our defensive identity and build the team from the back out again. Plugging in aging vets and reclamation projects are not going to get the job done.
 
With largely-immovable long-term contracts to guys like Brown, Gaborik, Kopitar, and Carter, would it be in our best interest to trade Tyler Toffoli for a young defenseman and forward locked up longer-term? Something like Travis Hamonic and Brock Nelson or Jonas Brodin and Charlie Coyle. Or even straight-up for Justin Faulk or Adam Larsson, though I'm not sure the Hurricanes or Devils would do that.

Trying to think outside the box here.

I don't think Toffoli could land any of those mentioned
 
Toffoli is only going to get better , it would be taking a step backwards if he were traded. Brown is what is wrong with this team. Win his space we can improve on defense and 3rd line center.
 
We shouldn't be trading Martinez under any scenario. Our biggest priority is establishing a solid defensive lineup. Getting a third line center is a secondary priority during the summer and can be addressed by Dean at the trade deadline. Also, Gravel has not even had a full NHL season. Why would he play on the top pairing with Doughty? That defensive lineup will not even make the playoffs.

We played Mcnabb on he top pairing all season and came out with 100 points. Gravel uses his stick better has better hockey iq and has speed. I think you'd be surprised how much better Gravel will get throughout the season playing on the top pairing with Doughty.
 
We played Mcnabb on he top pairing all season and came out with 100 points. Gravel uses his stick better has better hockey iq and has speed. I think you'd be surprised how much better Gravel will get throughout the season playing on the top pairing with Doughty.

I hope so. I saw some good things from Gravel as well. I guess it comes down to if we want to be a cup contender next year or to eat another year or two to develop our young players in the NHL. If we trade Martinez, and play Gravel and McNabb, it is likely going to be a repeat of this season (possibly make the playoffs, but get booted in the first round). Martinez is one of the best defensemen we have with respect to breakout passes, shots from the point, and moving the puck out of the defensive zone. McNabb, on the other hand, got trapped in the defensive zone throughout the playoffs and at various points in the season. Gravel has shown good signs, but is a question mark.
 
I hope so. I saw some good things from Gravel as well. I guess it comes down to if we want to be a cup contender next year or to eat another year or two to develop our young players in the NHL. If we trade Martinez, and play Gravel and McNabb, it is likely going to be a repeat of this season (possibly make the playoffs, but get booted in the first round). Martinez is one of the best defensemen we have with respect to breakout passes, shots from the point, and moving the puck out of the defensive zone. McNabb, on the other hand, got trapped in the defensive zone throughout the playoffs and at various points in the season.
Gravel has shown good signs, but is a question mark.


I agree about Martinez , he is a great underrated defenseman who does get his shots through, hits, has quick breakout passes but I think when Dean signed him and Muzzin to identical deals it was to eventually make a choice between the two and this year when Martinez was called upon to be a top 4 defender, I wouldn't say he failed but he definitely is better suited for a 5/6 on this team. So 4 million for a bottom pairing is to much for our cap woes. I think Martinez gets dealt with a + for an upgrade or just to create cap space. However, I don't see the trade happening til next off season after we see what Gravel can do on the top pairing. If Gravel performs then Martinez will be expendable.

I hate Mcnabb. Hated that we even traded Fasching for him because Fasching looks like he has all the tools of a super star in the making.
 
Yeah, I agree that Martinez at $4 million is bad if he is slotted into the 5/6 defenseman role. This was an issue discussed on this board for a while, but I think with the loss of Voynov, the lack of defensive depth, and such a high demand for any decent defenseman by other hockey clubs, Martinez's cap hit is good in our current situation and the market conditions. If Martinez was a free agent, I wouldn't be surprised to see a team like Edmonton, Colorado or Calgary paying Martinez close to $6 million (even though I don't think he is worth that much). Its funny, reading the other fan boards, almost every single team out of the playoffs now says their number 1 priority is getting a top 4 defenseman. Not many mention getting a winger.

If we do not have an option to bring in a top 2 defenseman unless we trade back Martinez +, then that is a trade worth looking at. However, we will be partially solving the problem. I for one am willing to sacrifice offense for defense. Get this team back to its identity, where we could actually hold a 1 or 2 goal lead. We haven't had that since 2014.
 
The Martinez extension was handed out after Voynov blew it so I only think it became a "Who are we going to choose to keep?" scenario if Voynov were to be reinstated.

Since Voynov is gone, I don't think there is an issue with carrying both contracts.
 
That roster wont be competitive to win the cup. Other than Pearson, that third line looks horrible. Can't wait for Dean to pull off a miracle and trade Brown. Hopefully Shore, Dowd, Lewis and AA can hold down the third line center role until there are better options at the trade deadline. Also, based on recent comments, it looks like Lucic will be in that lineup as well.

I agree, I was just trying to see what the line up would look like if they purged salary but it's awful..
If we do resign Lucic and roll with what we have then it's looking like this....
Lucic-Kopitar-Gaborik
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Shore-Brown
4th line who knows

Doughty-
????????-Muzzin
Martinez-McNabb
Hell in not sure how Dean will fix the Defense, maybe Gravel with Muzzin but who plays with Doughty ???? Old man Scuderi??? I would hope not???
 
If Horton, Pronger, Gagner, Clarkson can get moved so can Brown.

Sadly, Willie Mitchell is now 39 and his career is likely over.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/1...s-indicate-willie-mitchell-career-likely-over

I think we can all agree besides Muzzin, this was one of the best defensive UFA signing's in the past two decades, maybe more. Willie Mitchell changed the dynamic of the D core the day he was paired with Doughty and the day he came back in 2014.

Different NHL back then, this is not the same league.

Cap space/flexibility, is the number one commodity right now with a stagnant cap.

Teams need all the cap space they can get, in order to sign their own drafted players off RFA/ELC.
 
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Different NHL back then, this is not the same league.

Cap space/flexibility, is the number one commodity right now with a stagnant cap.

Teams need all the cap space they can get, in order to sign their own drafted players off RFA/ELC.

I'm pretty certain every one of those players/contracts were moved less then a 2-3 years ago.


Edit: Brown... If the next 2 years are a retool, Lombardi adjusting to his new game plan. Then there is really no rush to move Brown. Just run Brown/Carter/Toffoli and sit back and enjoy Kings hockey.
 
People really should be thinking Forbort as well. His defensive game is consistent and steady, he skates well, and moves the puck well. There are reasons why he got drafted so high, and these are the basis to that. It ended up being the wrong pick because he never really developed offensively. But there are so many teams having problems in their own end these days, that actually having any sort of offensive dman that could handle their own end starts to become a commodity that is not in great supply. Gravel is good as well, but he's not going to be running around trying to create a whole lot of offense if he's playing next to Drew. Forbort almost seems like he might be the best thing we have going on our organization that could be put alongside DD, other than Martinez and Muzzin of course!! IMO Not a rap against Gravel. They'd both be close. I think they have to try Forbort first because he is waiver eligible. If he works out, you still plan on having Gravel afterwards and you find a way to fit him in.
 
Some interesting comments from the Mayor re Sutter and how some of the players weren't too happy with him with the way he coached the final 10 games. Me personally, I'm ready to move on from him and bring in someone else. I hated his attitude toward winning the division and possibly winning the conference, then later in the playoffs and how badly he was out coached.

http://mayorsmanor.com/2016/04/hoven-on-nhl-radio-kings-roster-plans-and-sutters-future/
 
People really should be thinking Forbort as well. His defensive game is consistent and steady, he skates well, and moves the puck well. There are reasons why he got drafted so high, and these are the basis to that. It ended up being the wrong pick because he never really developed offensively. But there are so many teams having problems in their own end these days, that actually having any sort of offensive dman that could handle their own end starts to become a commodity that is not in great supply. Gravel is good as well, but he's not going to be running around trying to create a whole lot of offense if he's playing next to Drew. Forbort almost seems like he might be the best thing we have going on our organization that could be put alongside DD, other than Martinez and Muzzin of course!! IMO Not a rap against Gravel. They'd both be close. I think they have to try Forbort first because he is waiver eligible. If he works out, you still plan on having Gravel afterwards and you find a way to fit him in.

Doesn't matter what Forbort has done or hasn't done-Tarasenko! Forbort's numbers in the minors are disappointing and King fans should know these dmen just take way too long to develop. Look how long it took Hickey to round into form. The fact that the Kings could have had Tarasenko and been an amazing power house and we're instead stuck with Forbort and his 10 point AHL seasons and it was a huge whiff by the Kings brass. Forcing him into the line up because there is nobody else is not how Lombardi and Sutter operate.
 
Some interesting comments from the Mayor re Sutter and how some of the players weren't too happy with him with the way he coached the final 10 games. Me personally, I'm ready to move on from him and bring in someone else. I hated his attitude toward winning the division and possibly winning the conference, then later in the playoffs and how badly he was out coached.

http://mayorsmanor.com/2016/04/hoven-on-nhl-radio-kings-roster-plans-and-sutters-future/

I agree with the players. Sutter should have obviously played Gravel more, and AA didn't play nearly enough in the playoffs despite his strong finish. Just garbage coaching. I think its time for him to go.
 
Doesn't matter what Forbort has done or hasn't done-Tarasenko! Forbort's numbers in the minors are disappointing and King fans should know these dmen just take way too long to develop. Look how long it took Hickey to round into form. The fact that the Kings could have had Tarasenko and been an amazing power house and we're instead stuck with Forbort and his 10 point AHL seasons and it was a huge whiff by the Kings brass. Forcing him into the line up because there is nobody else is not how Lombardi and Sutter operate.

We still drafted a pretty good 2 way player named Tyler Toffoli in round 2, who will be a consistent 30 goal scorer, and not have a 7.5 cap hit for the next 8 years. He may not be as sexy, but he plays in both ends and doesn't get all poutty when his pp time is reduced.
 
Doesn't matter what Forbort has done or hasn't done-Tarasenko! Forbort's numbers in the minors are disappointing and King fans should know these dmen just take way too long to develop. Look how long it took Hickey to round into form. The fact that the Kings could have had Tarasenko and been an amazing power house and we're instead stuck with Forbort and his 10 point AHL seasons and it was a huge whiff by the Kings brass. Forcing him into the line up because there is nobody else is not how Lombardi and Sutter operate.
And just what Forbort numbers are you referring to?? Goals and assists?? Is that all? Corsi? Plus/minus? High Reign PK rate? Low Reign PP success? Oh wait he doesn't play PP at all. How about the Calder Cup? Does any of this matter!! DS just doesn't want to be bothered bringing any of these kids in. It's really too bad. My point is that Forbort and Gravel are both good. Im just saying if we come out of camp, and they're both still on the team, we need to play Forbort first because if we send him down I guarantee some other team will claim him and say thank you Dean for developing him for us!! If we trade him and it helps get rid of a bad contract, well that will have to do then! Im in the camp that both Forbort and Gravel should be on this team. I have that much belief and confidence in both of them. Should Forbort have been drafted in the first? Absolutely not! Should Gravel have been drafted in the fifth? Absolutely not! But what we do from this point forward with these two has nothing to do with a 2010 draft and the fact Tarasenko got drafted after Forbort. Do you know who got drafted after Gravel?
 
well that outcome wasn't as expected. long time, folks.

to me this was more disappointing than last years failure to even qualify. supposedly this team that was looking for redemption, a chip on the shoulder, every other lame sports analogy, etc.

they fell flat on their face when it mattered most. they were outplayed, out hustled and the scoreboard bore that out.

the org and the team need to take a serious look in the mirror and individually reassess what they bring to the end result.

DL -

needs to take some of the blame for making some moves that cost them both on the ice and also prospects/draft picks. the Sekera trade especially now stands out as a major mistake. yes he was scrambling trying to recover from Voynov's mess, but that was a disaster in the making. from the start there was always going to be a problem having the cap room to re-sign Sekera and of course he jumped to EDM for the paycheck.

next are some of the current contracts and player decisions that have been largely based on past results and loyalty. the Brown albatross contract is his new nightmare, which will continue to present issues for years to follow. based on what he did in '12 and '14, along with the timing made this a tough call for DL. its a brutal situation for a guy that has meant so much, but is quickly declining or totally lost his confidence.

the depth of plumbers on the roster needs to change moving forward. the game as always evolves and LA now looks big, tired and slow to often. personally i've had enough or D King and hope to never see him on the ice for LA again. that last stat i heard mentioned was he was without a point in like his last 19 games, not even an assist. i've heard enough about his Corsi rankings and the other "attributes", enough is a enough. the guy is now a liability on the offensive side, because he can't produce. i'm tired of watching him scrum on the walls with zero results.

frankly Dean and Darryl also have not done enough to evolve the roster and the systems to adapt to how the game is changing.

Sutter -
is it time? he was badly outdone by DeBoer in the series. D King on the first line, when you are down in a series? gtfo! i think it is time for them to look for a new voice in the locker room.

Leadership -
When it mattered the most down the stretch and then into the playoffs. When teams lean on their leaders, where were they? When they went into the shutdown mode after clinching, where was Sutter and Brown?

stealing a great quote i saw on Twitter from Surly - "Kings struggled all yr to find identity. The purpose of a Captain is to set and represent identity. 2 yrs now of identity being falling down"

moving forward its time for significant shake up of the roster and staff. i'm ready to move on from Sutter and Brown (if its possible). ive had enough of others like McNabb (another DL trade I hated from the start, can we get Hudson back?), King, Clifford, etc. there is an abundance of duplicate parts on this team. i look at as the same as buying a wrench set with 20 different wrenches, but 10 of them are all 1/2".

at the end of the season two years ago, i was hoping Dean was going to move up the next batch/the next core of kids to start the transition. begin to move away from some of the older guys and FA's. he is likely going to have to do this now due to salary cap. personally i think its time to start letting guys go and bring up the kids so they learn.

the window is slowly closing on the current core. in order to benefit from the current core, Dean can go two ways. what he has done the past few years and resulted in 2 Cups, 1 WCF loss, 1 first round loss and bed sh**ting episode. or retool with his young kids under the tutelage of the core of Kopitar, DD, Carter, Quick, etc. prep them for the future and go for a few more Cups starting not next year, but the following.

it is a brutal situation, but its clear the current plan isn't working and hasn't worked now for the past two years. its time to re-tool and reroll the dice. i no longer see the fire and desire we saw just a few years ago. shake it up.....throw some gas on that ******
 
Toffoli is only going to get better , it would be taking a step backwards if he were traded. Brown is what is wrong with this team. Win his space we can improve on defense and 3rd line center.

I would not trade Toffolli, ever!! His skill sets are that good! He's in a higher class of natural born instincts!! Gretzky like! He's not the fastest, not the strongest, not too physical, not too big, but deceptive as all hell, and can shoot and release the puck like nobody's business. He's Mike Bossy!!
 
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