GDT: Offseason game thread

[Minor Boarding]

The pick the Kings received from Vancouver was used to select Roland McKeown.

The second round pick dealt in the Gaborik trade was received from Toronto in the Bernier trade.

Yup, that's correct.
That Leafs pick was a conditional - Leafs could decide which pick to take (2014 or 2015) at the draft.
Can someone fill me in, how Lombardi could trade a pick he didn't have till draft day?

 

[KingsFan7824]

I think Brown goes. Teams like NJ and Arizona will be under the cap and looking for a power forward.

And Brown would be their target because? We get a glimpse every now and then, like in Game 3, but if he was that power forward consistently, we wouldn't complain about his contract as much, and far fewer people would want to get rid of him. I'm not sure Brown even has cap floor value.

Either team could sign 2 or 3 free agents on 1 year deals for the same total cap hit, and get the same, if not more, production. That's what NJ did last summer, and then got a couple picks out of it at the deadline. Sure, the Coyotes took on Pronger, but that was Philly. They're not in direct competition for a playoff spot with them. Plus Pronger was never going to play, just onto LTIR once the season started for a couple years, not 6.

 

[theMajor]

kind of off topic a little bit, but has anyone heard anything on Bartosak? is he completely done ?

 

[TheBannermen]

Ok...
1) Rosen is bad at math. Lucic can be resigned without Shedding much if any salary. VL is retiring, Schenn is UFA... maybe Clifford needs to go if Greene is coming back... but that's about it.

2) I expect Brown on the second like with Carter/Toffoli to start the year. Trolling aside, there's no point in trying to move Brown before you find out if you can lose him in the expansion draft.

3) Pearson may be trade bait. Just a feeling I got.

4) I expect Greene back. If the team isn't looking at being in a cup window for 1-2 years there's no point in trading/buying out Greene.

5) Personally I'd trade Muzzin & Martinez, Sign Yandle/Schenn. I know right? If there's a 5 year plan... it's about opening a window in the next 5 years... not next year. Doughty/Yandle would be a good 1,2 punch for years to come. Schenn can fill in on the second pair then when the cap goes up, Greene's contract runs out. Then he can drop down to the 3rd pair when the team is going to make a shift to be competitive. Target high end young talent with Martinez/Muzzin.

Also... I'd have Quick pull a Price and see about getting into the lottery after starting Budaj for over half the season.

Both Muzzin and Martinez are better all around players than Yandle, AND younger to boot. I think this is a "grass is greener" type moment, because those moves would put a defining nail in Lombardi's "I'm a good GM" coffin.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

And Brown would be their target because? We get a glimpse every now and then, like in Game 3, but if he was that power forward consistently, we wouldn't complain about his contract as much, and far fewer people would want to get rid of him. I'm not sure Brown even has cap floor value.

Either team could sign 2 or 3 free agents on 1 year deals for the same total cap hit, and get the same, if not more, production. That's what NJ did last summer, and then got a couple picks out of it at the deadline. Sure, the Coyotes took on Pronger, but that was Philly. They're not in direct competition for a playoff spot with them. Plus Pronger was never going to play, just onto LTIR once the season started for a couple years, not 6.

Brown + a pick/prospect/whatever for Clowe and then buy him out? Would be a $1,616,667 buyout penalty for 4 years. I'm guessing they're going to have to retain a good amount of salary ($1.5-2 million) on Brown anyways. Better 4 years than 6.

Would come out to to around $3.3 million in dead cap space with Richards/Clowe/Scuderi waive......

 

[Johnny Utah]

If the Kings move King and his 1.95 million and let Lewis and Enroth depart via UFA and McNabb goes from 650 or whatever to let's say 900ish, do the Kings have room for Lucic AND a #3 D man???

Also, consider Mersch and his cap moves up to La and the Salary cap is going up.

 

[AlphaBravo]

The best thing would have been to trade Brown to Toronto for Phaneuf (with picks or prospects going one way or the other). Phaneuf is not worth $7+ million I believe he is getting paid, he is a good defenseman and could have played on our second pairing. Toronto, in return, actually saves cap space and gets an energetic power forward and a cup winning leader to help mentor the kids. Too bad that deal cannot go down now.

 

[DocWest]

Nevermind

 

[Cook24]

Also nevermind

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

kind of off topic a little bit, but has anyone heard anything on Bartosak? is he completely done ?

No real updates, I think he actually went back to Europe. Have to assume he's completely done.

The best thing would have been to trade Brown to Toronto for Phaneuf (with picks or prospects going one way or the other). Phaneuf is not worth $7+ million I believe he is getting paid, he is a good defenseman and could have played on our second pairing. Toronto, in return, actually saves cap space and gets an energetic power forward and a cup winning leader to help mentor the kids. Too bad that deal cannot go down now.

I dunno man. I watched a lot of Ottawa games this year and Phaneuf is just an expensive McNabb.

 

[Trolfoli]

Both Muzzin and Martinez are better all around players than Yandle, AND younger to boot. I think this is a "grass is greener" type moment, because those moves would put a defining nail in Lombardi's "I'm a good GM" coffin.

Nothing to do with the grass being greener. Kings are low on assets after trying to push over the top for multiple cups, in multiple years. Kings might be able to make another run at the cup, but that is going to require a slight retool. Now I'm looking a year or two ahead here. Kings will need a new Gaborik, skilled 3C, a couple of young impact D. This all has to happen before Carter/Kopitar/Quick start to slip. About the only way of pulling this off is to move some players with good value and replace with vets.

You could just try and add a top 4 defender. That would require Brown moving, or leaving a hole in the top 6. Kings are stuck at the cap. So it's either find a way to move Brown out, or bring in young players. Neither of which is a great option right now. (Brown will be hard to move, and Kings are a little thin on "good" NHL's in Ontario. Maybe someone has a break out year)

 

[losingsand]

If Scott Gomez and Brian Campbell can get moved w/ those ridiculous contracts and their declining play, then i think it proves that anything is possible.

WHY was florida able to rebuild so quickly? i would say it's because of their heavy mix of veteran presence (jagr, luongo, mitchell, campbell)

I think teams will figure out that that's the shortcut to a good rebuild... Let these young guys learn from real pros.

A 2 time stanley cup champion CAPTAIN could be a valuable asset to any team not against the cap. I say Dean does Brown a solid and try to work a deal to get him back to his home in western NY. Let's give them back Mcnabb while we're at it

 

[kings11]

I really don't see a reason to panic and want to rebuild.. Lets remember we didnt win those cups because we were an offense juggernaut but rather because our defense was stout, rugged and very physical. lost in all this is the fact that our defense has been compromised with the losses of Voynov, Regher, Mitchell, Scuderi and Greene who were replaced with kids like McNabb, Gravel or past their prime guys like Scuderi, Erhoff etc...
I mentioned Kris Russell who is on the small side but blocks shots with aplomb which is something our D was known for.
Toffoli-Kopitar-Gaborik
Mersch-Carter-Versteeg
Pearson-Shore-Brown
4th needs to be redone
by moving Nolan, King, Clifford with can free up close to $4million
Doughty-Muzzin
Martinez-Russell
McNabb/Gravel/Greene/Forbort/Scuderi all fighting for those last 3 spots 5-7

 

[AlphaBravo]

I really don't see a reason to panic and want to rebuild.. Lets remember we didnt win those cups because we were an offense juggernaut but rather because our defense was stout, rugged and very physical. lost in all this is the fact that our defense has been compromised with the losses of Voynov, Regher, Mitchell, Scuderi and Greene who were replaced with kids like McNabb, Gravel or past their prime guys like Scuderi, Erhoff etc...
I mentioned Kris Russell who is on the small side but blocks shots with aplomb which is something our D was known for.
Toffoli-Kopitar-Gaborik
Mersch-Carter-Versteeg
Pearson-Shore-Brown
4th needs to be redone
by moving Nolan, King, Clifford with can free up close to $4million
Doughty-Muzzin
Martinez-Russell
McNabb/Gravel/Greene/Forbort/Scuderi all fighting for those last 3 spots 5-7

That roster wont be competitive to win the cup. Other than Pearson, that third line looks horrible. Can't wait for Dean to pull off a miracle and trade Brown. Hopefully Shore, Dowd, Lewis and AA can hold down the third line center role until there are better options at the trade deadline. Also, based on recent comments, it looks like Lucic will be in that lineup as well.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't think we'll be fortunate enough to have a Willie Mitchell or Rob Scuderi circa 2012 fall into our lap. Those guys pretty much don't exist anymore, and when they do, they're going for 6 million, not 3.5.

 

[BigKing]

One of the Kings D prospects (position; not grade) is going to have to surprise. That's what it is going to come down to. Don't want to put it all on Gravel, but I loved what I saw in the small sample size.

As for McNabb, tough to get more out of a cap hit so tiny. He was not expected to have to play the minutes he wound up playing this soon when that trade was made, either.

In regards to the D prospects and talking about 2012 Mitchell/Scuderi: the latter were nothing at McNabb's/Gravel's/Forbort's age. Mitchell's first full season saw him at 24 years old and Scuderi was 26/27 in his first. "Different" eras I guess but, still, guys without tremendous foot speed need to learn how to be smarter so there will be growing pains.

None of these guys are Colten Teubert at least. The three I've mentioned should be NHL players with Gravel having sneaky #4 potential: Forbort possibly as well if he figures it out. All are NHL caliber though.

 

[Kingsfan1]

Martinez + should either be traded for an upgrade for 3rd line center or top 4 RHD.

Then Brown can get traded for peanuts. I'm okay with trading Martinez. I think Gravel can hold it down defensively and make Martinez expendable.

Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-RHD
Scuderi-Schenn
Forbort-Mcnabb
Greene

Gravel will be the Willie Mitchell type player Doughty has always needed. With his long stick ala 2012 Scuderi and Mitchell.

 

[Kingsfan1]

I don't think we'll be fortunate enough to have a Willie Mitchell or Rob Scuderi circa 2012 fall into our lap. Those guys pretty much don't exist anymore, and when they do, they're going for 6 million, not 3.5.

He does exist, in our own system too. Kevin Gravel. Kid can flat out play if given the chance especially on the top line. I really believe the pairing of the future will be Gravel and Doughty. He is a prototypical Mitchell type player who also has speed.

 

[KingsFan7824]

If Scott Gomez and Brian Campbell can get moved w/ those ridiculous contracts and their declining play, then i think it proves that anything is possible.

WHY was florida able to rebuild so quickly? i would say it's because of their heavy mix of veteran presence (jagr, luongo, mitchell, campbell)

I think teams will figure out that that's the shortcut to a good rebuild... Let these young guys learn from real pros.

A 2 time stanley cup champion CAPTAIN could be a valuable asset to any team not against the cap. I say Dean does Brown a solid and try to work a deal to get him back to his home in western NY. Let's give them back Mcnabb while we're at it

The difference there is that Gomez had a couple good seasons in NY before being traded. He finished 2nd on the team in points both years, finished 2nd one year in the playoffs, and led the Rangers in playoff scoring the other year. With Campbell, I don't know if Chicago wanted to trade him, but were probably more forced to do so because of the cap. His last year in Chicago, he was 2nd on the team in ES ice time, and 3rd in overall ice time.

The first year in Montreal for Gomez, he finished 2nd on the team in scoring, and 3rd in playoff scoring. Campbell's first year in Florida, he led the team in ES and overall ice time, and had over 50 points. The Kings would be trading Brown after 3 years of finishing 8th or 9th on the team in scoring, declining ice time, and 6 years left on a contract. Plus he's a winger, not a center or defenseman.

 

[Johnny Utah]

If Horton, Pronger, Gagner, Clarkson can get moved so can Brown.

Sadly, Willie Mitchell is now 39 and his career is likely over.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/1...s-indicate-willie-mitchell-career-likely-over

I think we can all agree besides Muzzin, this was one of the best defensive UFA signing's in the past two decades, maybe more. Willie Mitchell changed the dynamic of the D core the day he was paired with Doughty and the day he came back in 2014.

 

[goosh]

kind of off topic a little bit, but has anyone heard anything on Bartosak? is he completely done ?

I wouldn't hold my breath. Bartosak's tenure with the Kings org is likely done. I believe he spent the season playing for a Czech team.

 

[sinister6000]

The only free agents the Kings will be able to sign are old vets that are around 35 years old. They could maybe get a guy like Brian Campbell from the Panthers. The Kings should move Jordan Nolan, he's a terrible RW. He's better on the LW, but the Kings should put Andreoff there. Dump Clifford and his contract also.

 

[cyclones22]

Both Forbort and Gravel looked competent in their stints. Both are long and mobile. But Sutter is going to have to play these guys and it takes a while to win over his trust.

 

[kilowatt]

With largely-immovable long-term contracts to guys like Brown, Gaborik, Kopitar, and Carter, would it be in our best interest to trade Tyler Toffoli for a young defenseman and forward locked up longer-term? Something like Travis Hamonic and Brock Nelson or Jonas Brodin and Charlie Coyle. Or even straight-up for Justin Faulk or Adam Larsson, though I'm not sure the Hurricanes or Devils would do that.

Trying to think outside the box here.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Martinez + should either be traded for an upgrade for 3rd line center or top 4 RHD.

Then Brown can get traded for peanuts. I'm okay with trading Martinez. I think Gravel can hold it down defensively and make Martinez expendable.

Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-RHD
Scuderi-Schenn
Forbort-Mcnabb
Greene

Gravel will be the Willie Mitchell type player Doughty has always needed. With his long stick ala 2012 Scuderi and Mitchell.

We shouldn't be trading Martinez under any scenario. Our biggest priority is establishing a solid defensive lineup. Getting a third line center is a secondary priority during the summer and can be addressed by Dean at the trade deadline. Also, Gravel has not even had a full NHL season. Why would he play on the top pairing with Doughty? That defensive lineup will not even make the playoffs.