GDT: Offseason game thread

[AlphaBravo]

I understand the sentiment to save as much money on the backup goalie as possible, but its very risky for us to rely on Budaj. Essentially, if Quick gets hurt, we should be prepared to call in the season. I say this knowing that the Kings do not heavily rely on goaltending as much as other teams, but Budaj is not even capable of being the average Osgood goalie we need to succeed.

Also, with respect to whether a big trade will take place this summer involving one of our core players, I have trouble believing it could happen. DL and Sutter are as stubborn as they come. I can see them rolling the exact same team next year, but maybe with some reclamation projects added to our roster.

 

[LAKings88]

Hypothetically if Lucic signs at a bargain 5.5, Dowd at $700,000

Lucic - Kopitar - Gabby = 20.375
Pearson - Carter - Toffoli = 10.
Mersch - Shore - Brown = 7.2
Andreoff - Dowd - Nolan = 2.25

Forward Core = 39.8 mil with a huge hole a 3C

Doughty - Muzzin = 11
Martinez - = 4
Greene - Gravel = 3.2
Forbert - .900 est.

Defense Core = 18.2 mil Still missing a #3

Quick and Budaj - 6.4 - good enough bat gain basement backup for the amount he will be used

Richards cap recapture- 1.570

Total = 66 mil

This allows us 5.4 mil plus whatever the cap goes up to get a proper # 3c and a second pairing Dman to ice a competitive team.

Trade bait of King 1.9 mil, Clifford 1.6, McNabb est 1.2, plus prospects and picks.

I just don't find it realistic to pretend Brown is getting traded. Even Gabby and Green may be a hard sell.

This. I think McNabb/Clifford/Shore get shopped for picks. Andreoff as fourth line center. Dowd as the third.

Any extra cap can go to a dman or 3rd line center.

Gravel replaced McNabb, Greene and Scuds platoon.

 

[funky]

I understand the sentiment to save as much money on the backup goalie as possible, but its very risky for us to rely on Budaj. Essentially, if Quick gets hurt, we should be prepared to call in the season. I say this knowing that the Kings do not heavily rely on goaltending as much as other teams, but Budaj is not even capable of being the average Osgood goalie we need to succeed.

Also, with respect to whether a big trade will take place this summer involving one of our core players, I have trouble believing it could happen. DL and Sutter are as stubborn as they come. I can see them rolling the exact same team next year, but maybe with some reclamation projects added to our roster.

Our best backup in the last 5 years was Ben Scrivins and he can be had for nothing if Budaj doesn't cut it.

If Quick goes down we are screwed
If Kopitar goes down we are screwed
If Doughty goes down we are screwed

We just don't have the cap space to buy insurance players for any of these. Gamble on the backups and use the money to strengthen the team in front of them.

 

[AlphaBravo]

That is the issue.
-Fill the hole on D and not sign a top 6 forward (Lucic) leaving a hole in the top 6. Think King full time top 6 duty, and Brown.
-Fill the hole in the top 6 and fill the hole on D with Gravel/Forbort (Not a contender)
-Move Brown somehow.

Running Muzzin/Doughty would be great, but the cap doesn't really allow for it.

What this team needs is an injection of cheap ELC guys that can contribute. Guys like Muzzin @1.1 and Martinez at 1M. The question is how to acquire those players before Carter/Kopitar loose a step.

This is exactly what is making us not competitive while other teams are rapidly rising as cup contenders. In 2014, Toffoli and Pearson were our dirt cheap game changers. We have absolutely nobody in Ontario that will be even close to what these players are. Maybe (big maybe) Kempe, but that is about it.

As much as this will suck for us fans and Kopitar, Quick, and Doughty, it would do this team wonders to stockpile picks and prospects this summer by trying to trade Gaborik, Brown, King, and Clifford (maybe Carter), let the Ontario kids play on the roaster and develop (which will let us see which one of them have a future), and do a partial rebuild the next 2-3 years. I think Boston is doing something similar to this. They got a ton of picks last summer and are gearing up to be competitive down the road.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

I understand the sentiment to save as much money on the backup goalie as possible, but its very risky for us to rely on Budaj. Essentially, if Quick gets hurt, we should be prepared to call in the season. I say this knowing that the Kings do not heavily rely on goaltending as much as other teams, but Budaj is not even capable of being the average Osgood goalie we need to succeed.

Also, with respect to whether a big trade will take place this summer involving one of our core players, I have trouble believing it could happen. DL and Sutter are as stubborn as they come. I can see them rolling the exact same team next year, but maybe with some reclamation projects added to our roster.

this

people that claim that our goaltending doesn't need to be addressed in some shape or form really must be on some good kind of long term LSD

how else would you be able to justify sitting through three years of shaky goaltending and still not be convinced lol

we need 1 top 6F, 1 #3C, 1 top 4D, and a really solid backup G

 

[go4hockey]

Pretty much. Would rather have Schenn because they're similar players, but Schenn is a much needed right hander.

Wow I disagree big time. Sure McNabb had some hard time adjusting to the NHL but us chucking him on the top pairing was a big mistake but I still think he will become a decent defenseman for us. Schenn on the other hand puts himself in a bad defensive position just about every play and his foot speed is even worse than McNabb. I hope Schenn is not back as I feel him starting in Toronto and then going to the defeseless Flyers has ruined him.

 

[Omni Owl]

Wow I disagree big time. Sure McNabb had some hard time adjusting to the NHL but us chucking him on the top pairing was a big mistake but I still think he will become a decent defenseman for us. Schenn on the other hand puts himself in a bad defensive position just about every play and his foot speed is even worse than McNabb. I hope Schenn is not back as I feel him starting in Toronto and then going to the defeseless Flyers has ruined him.

I never said he was good. Schenn and McBad are pretty much the same player, Schenn is more desirable because he's right handed. I wouldn't object to either being off of the team next year.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

guys both Schenn & McNabb are acceptable as #6-7Ds

they basically replace Greene & Scuderi

the problem is... WE ARE STUCK WITH GREENE & SCUDERI!

therefore, PEACE OUT SCHENN & MCNABB!

 

[AlphaBravo]

Our best backup in the last 5 years was Ben Scrivins and he can be had for nothing if Budaj doesn't cut it.

If Quick goes down we are screwed
If Kopitar goes down we are screwed
If Doughty goes down we are screwed

We just don't have the cap space to buy insurance players for any of these. Gamble on the backups and use the money to strengthen the team in front of them.

I agree that if any of the above go down we are screwed, but unlike Doughty and Kopitar, we can get insurance on Quick by getting a decent backup. I wouldn't mind bringing back Enroth who is better than Budaj, and could keep us competitive if something happens to Quick. Assuming he even wants to come back (which doesn't appear to be the case with his latest comments), he would only cost a $1 million or so more.

I agree that the Professor is another option, but I heard there was tension between him and Sutter.

 

[theMajor]

I never said he was good. Schenn and McBad are pretty much the same player, Schenn is more desirable because he's right handed. I wouldn't object to either being off of the team next year.

Id take Schenn over McNabb any day of the week but part of me still thinks McNabb has yet to reach his potential... if only he was more consistent he could be a pretty scary guy.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

how about Anton Khudobin? Chad Johnson? Jeff Zatkoff? Carter Hutton? these guys can be had for cheap and they all can pretend to be a #1 for a couple of weeks per season

i would go the Reimer, Ramo, Raanta route myself if the price is within the 2m range


LA should have 6-8m free this season

enough to bring in a solid backup + a top 4 D (i.e. Hamhuis, Goligoski, Yandle); which is the route i'd prefer over retaining Lucic

solidify the back-end is always a priority (should be tackled during the 2017-18 season)

then worry about scoring, which should be addressed during the 2018-19 season

 

[BigKing]

Jesus Christ.

Scuderi's hit is nothing if we bury him in the minors. Continues to count against Chicago and Pittsburgh too. We aren't "stuck" with anything there outside Sutter's willingness to play him, honestly.

The team needs to develop a ****ing back up goaltender and not put funds towards one because they can't afford to do so. The back-up goalies for this team when they've won the Cup have both been homegrown with Scriven's being a contributor when Quick got hurt in '14.

You can't pay a back-up goalie even $2MM when you've already got so much money invested in the position AND have to stretch dollars all over the roster.

If any of the Big 3 go out, the team is screwed with Quick actually being the one that is the most affordable to lose in comparison to Kopitar or Doughty: especially depending on the roster in front of the goalie.

Why are other team "passing" the Kings to be contenders? Welcome to the Cap World where winners get paid and rising contenders generally have some sort of cheap, ELC talent making key contributions. Well, the Kings have jettisoned so many first round picks and prospects that the young talent is not there or, in the case of TT, will be paid well soon.

Five year window 2012-16. DL kept his powder dry and used it effectively with the first three years of the window being great. Last year was this team's best chance to make noise again and, really, Voynov derailed that train. Horrible OT record but still should have made the playoffs where Pearson and Sekera looked to draw back in to the lineup against a much weaker Western Conference playoff field, IMO. DL went all-in with the Sekera trade to replace Voynov and it backfired...can't blame him for doing it though.

Used the rest of his powder on Lucic. Felt it gave the team the best chance of winning this season and he wanted him long-term. Now he's pretty much out of assets and cap space but where are the ELC studs?

The problem isn't back-up goalie or sweating Scuderi or some other 4th line/7th defenseman: it is a lack of identifiable prospect talent which can come in here on an ELC cap hit and not only contribute, but excel.

Reinforcements are needed but we are limited on resources. Going to be really interesting to see what Lombardi does this off-season. Without guessing at big names that would require big trades, I see them having a lot of faith in the usual suspects in Ontario because, let's face it, this team is going to need all the sub-$1MM cap hits it can ice. Fully expect to be looking at a $2MM max bottom pairing and a cheap Bottom 6.

A lot will be riding on these prospects. Hopefully they can go deep in the playoffs again and keep getting high-pressure experience. Would be good to inject some hunger in to the lineup as well, like how Dowd played in his cup of coffee.

 

[sinister6000]

When you keep trading 1st round picks, and prospects for vets your gonna ruin your salary cap. Now they only have a couple prospects, and end up with nothing to show for all the bad trades they made. The only way they can fix things is to build from within, and try to dump the aging vets off on other teams.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Jesus Christ.

Scuderi's hit is nothing if we bury him in the minors. Continues to count against Chicago and Pittsburgh too. We aren't "stuck" with anything there outside Sutter's willingness to play him, honestly.

(...)

therefore, we are stuck

i love Lombardi/Sutter but treat them like children (i.e. keep the stove away from the child and he won't get burned)

so i want McNabb Schenn McBain Greene Scuderi Schultz as far away from the children as possible! to avoid mad temptations ...

 

[AlphaBravo]

Seeing that Boston is in the midst of a mini-rebuild, I can see them unloading Chara and DL being interested in him. Not saying Chara is a good option for this team, but he definitely fits DL's MO.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Crazy how so many things went the wrong way. Brown and Richards. Voynov and Bartosak. The 14-15 and 15-16 seasons. Just with Voynov and Bartosak, there's two issues that we're talking about, a top 4 defenseman and cheap backup goalie with upside, gone, for nothing.

Lombardi's got a tough job. From here on out, the Kings will probably have a hole on defense. Teams just don't trade solid top 4 defensemen. Jones went for Johansen. For the sake of argument, say the Kings are willing to trade Carter for what they lack on defense. Great, now they're out a 2nd center. Use Toffoli instead. Now you're out the top goal scorer. Pearson? I doubt he gets you all that much, in terms of that defenseman, but even then, he's a reasonably priced young guy. So any reasonable guess as to player moves will always leave the Kings with a hole somewhere.

There's no way they cover every base, unless another Johnson/Carter/Voynov situation comes around. Can Gravel be a top 4 guy by the end of next season? Can Kempe, Mersch, or any other forward give them a viable option by the end of next season?

Someone will have to bust through, because nobody is going to help the Kings simply clear cap space by trading picks or prospects for Brown or Gaborik.

 

[BigKing]

Crazy how so many things went the wrong way. Brown and Richards. Voynov and Bartosak. The 14-15 and 15-16 seasons. Just with Voynov and Bartosak, there's two issues that we're talking about, a top 4 defenseman and cheap backup goalie with upside, gone, for nothing.

Lombardi's got a tough job. From here on out, the Kings will probably have a hole on defense. Teams just don't trade solid top 4 defensemen. Jones went for Johansen. For the sake of argument, say the Kings are willing to trade Carter for what they lack on defense. Great, now they're out a 2nd center. Use Toffoli instead. Now you're out the top goal scorer. Pearson? I doubt he gets you all that much, in terms of that defenseman, but even then, he's a reasonably priced young guy. So any reasonable guess as to player moves will always leave the Kings with a hole somewhere.

There's no way they cover every base, unless another Johnson/Carter/Voynov situation comes around. Can Gravel be a top 4 guy by the end of next season? Can Kempe, Mersch, or any other forward give them a viable option by the end of next season?

Someone will have to bust through, because nobody is going to help the Kings simply clear cap space by trading picks or prospects for Brown or Gaborik.

Exactly.

Muzzin is considered the #2 on this team. Where did he come from?

It's going to have to be these left-field and/or current prospects that perform better than expected.

Gravel is going to be key. Would be nice if Forbort turns into an NHL player for us but he has a distinct Hickey feel to him.

Anyways, trading young assets was okay because we had to try to win as many as possible during this window. We all knew that if they didn't win another one, it was going to sting with the Voynov mess just really accelerating the sell-off of assets.

Well, we're here now. Time to break out the hydrocortisone and calamine and cross our fingers that the Ontario contingent can provide more than currently expected.

 

[Papa Mocha 15]

This team needs to subtract a roster player, likely Brown. He had a physical round one but his scoring touch has just disappeared for multiple seasons.... He needs to go. We need to rebuild or D, start off with giving Gravel a spot. I don't think I'd resign Lucic and just use the money for a PMD without the defensive liability... Forbort needs some seasoning, but he could be serviceable....

 

[Johnny Utah]

Brown, King, and Clifford are the problems right now.

Mersch is a LW. There is no room on the top 2 lines at LW if Lucic re-signs. Pearson is the #2 LW.

So King is playing 3rd line LW for 1.95 million. Clifford is paying 4th line LW for 1.6 million.

Kings need to move one or both of these two players. I don't see Mersch playing on the 4th line. Plus, Andreoff showed he can can play there.

Also, what hurts the Kings is Brown playing anywhere. A 3rd line of Mersch-Shore/Dowd-Brown is crap because Brown and Mersch are both big slower bodies. The Kings need to spread out the power forwards and the faster or younger players. Moving Brown up to play with Lucic-Kopitar doesn't help either. Then it's Koptiar with two slow power forwards on either side. Sure, then you have a good 3rd line of Mersch-Dowd/Shore-Gaborik.

Kings need to move Brown AND King or Clifford. That would open up spots for Mersch.

If I was Lombardi I would then trade or sign for a speedy RW to play on the 3rd or 4th line similar to what Lewis did, but for less money.

Look at the speed of the some of these teams...it's speed and youth. Anaheim's 2nd/3rd line is Cogliano/Kesler/Silfverberg. Tons of speed.

Lucic-Kopitar-Gaborik
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Shore-Speedy player either a UFA or thru a trade
Andreoff-Dowd-Nolan

 

[KingsFan7824]

Trading Brown sounds great in the abstract. Once the variables of reality enter the equation, there's roadblock after roadblock. Which roadblock are you willing to cross the get him off the cap? Because Lombardi is not trading from a position of strength by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Brown, King, and Clifford are the problems right now.

Mersch is a LW. There is no room on the top 2 lines at LW if Lucic re-signs. Pearson is the #2 LW.

So King is playing 3rd line LW for 1.95 million. Clifford is paying 4th line LW for 1.6 million.

Kings need to move one or both of these two players. I don't see Mersch playing on the 4th line. Plus, Andreoff showed he can can play there.

Also, what hurts the Kings is Brown playing anywhere. A 3rd line of Mersch-Shore/Dowd-Brown is crap because Brown and Mersch are both big slower bodies. The Kings need to spread out the power forwards and the faster or younger players. Moving Brown up to play with Lucic-Kopitar doesn't help either. Then it's Koptiar with two slow power forwards on either side. Sure, then you have a good 3rd line of Mersch-Dowd/Shore-Gaborik.

Kings need to move Brown AND King or Clifford. That would open up spots for Mersch.

If I was Lombardi I would then trade or sign for a speedy RW to play on the 3rd or 4th line similar to what Lewis did, but for less money.

Look at the speed of the some of these teams...it's speed and youth. Anaheim's 2nd/3rd line is Cogliano/Kesler/Silfverberg. Tons of speed.

Lucic-Kopitar-Gaborik
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Shore-Speedy player either a UFA or thru a trade
Andreoff-Dowd-Nolan

You can get the fasting skating forwards in the NHL and our team would still be slow if we do not get decent puck moving defensemen. Speed comes from the backend with the quick breakout passes, not from the front. We already have fast players on this team (Carter, Gaborik, Pearson, Lewis), but don't see their full potential because of our garbage defense. DL should have overpaid for Sekera during the summer instead of getting Lucic.

 

[Kingsfan1]

Gaborik can still perform and has his wheels still. Dean mentioned he can be our Teemu before so I don't see Gaborik moving. He should be back to scoring lots of goals next year.

As for Brown I might cry if he is not moved. I can't wait for him to be gone.

King at 1.9 million isn't a problem but Clifford at 1.6 is a big problem. Clifford was a wasted draft pick because he dealt with so many concussions in the beginning of his career I don't think he will ever live up to his potential. Clifford is to expensive for the 4th line. Way to much. I think management was anticipating him taking a big step but it didn't happen. The problem with King is not his caphit it's his game. Yes he's great at protecting the puck which Kings brass can teach to others easily but rather that he is to slow and very inconsistent.

Mersch and some other kids will perform better and have lower cap hits. Also will change dynamic of team with some speed.

Dowd, Gravel, Mersch and Forbort should all be up with the club next year.

I wanted to see Sutter let Gaborik-Kopitar-Versteeg stay on the first line and build some chemistry. Versteeg is a great player just not a Kings type player so he played him on the dam 4th line. His fast passes would send Gabs flying into enemy territory.

I hope we get rid of Clifford, King, Lewis, Scuderi , Greene and especially Brown.
Hope we resign Lucic, Versteeg and Schenn for cheap replacement for Greene.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah, the Kings are 'slow' but when the system is being executed we can play anyone fast. The puck moves faster than any one player does, that's been our strength.

I imagine systems in hockey are going to change a bit soon; I mean, the stretch-pass, strike in transition systems of the Flames (and that the Hawks used against us) directly counter possession in a way (maybe not counter but certainly take advantage of 'structured' approaches). It would be best to be on the front end of that curve. But I don't necessarily think we're a 'slow' team as a whole.

Interestingly re: contract shedding:



Also goes on to confirm Brown would be one of the candidates.

So yeah, probably Looch in, and some corresponding salary out. Those ARE big moves.

 

[Kingsfan1]

Also Pearson was coming along after a serious injury last year. You don't trade one of your fastest players on a cheap contract who can score. I think next season he breaks out.

The problem is that Gravel and Forbort are good options for stay at home dmen who also have speed and can breakout of their zone but Sutter opts to use aging players instead and pylon Mcnabb cause of exp.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Yeah, the Kings are 'slow' but when the system is being executed we can play anyone fast. The puck moves faster than any one player does, that's been our strength.

I imagine systems in hockey are going to change a bit soon; I mean, the stretch-pass, strike in transition systems of the Flames (and that the Hawks used against us) directly counter possession in a way (maybe not counter but certainly take advantage of 'structured' approaches). It would be best to be on the front end of that curve. But I don't necessarily think we're a 'slow' team as a whole.

Interestingly re: contract shedding:



Also goes on to confirm Brown would be one of the candidates.

So yeah, probably Looch in, and some corresponding salary out. Those ARE big moves.

Interesting comment by Rosen. If DL and Lucic are close to a deal (in the same "area code") then DL must have felt out the market and sees a deal potentially working out to get rid of Brown or Gaborik. What other contract shedding could there be? DL is not going to get rid of Carter, Kopitar, Quick, DD and I don't see any other big contract to get off the books.