Official Training Camp Roster Talk - Part II (The Final Stretch)

[fancouver]

The important part at this point, is "train".


He moves fast, he hits hard, and he isn't going to be diverted.

Which, we've heard endlessly about how everything is Sbisa's fault and his contract is definitely stupid...But...he's the only guy outside of Edler-Tanev, maybe Hamhuis that i have any confidence in being able to handle physical play from the big boys AND speed.

Weber is embarrassing against physical play. Bartkowski is kinda...a floater defensively. His speed is great and very apparent, but defensively he's shown tons of taking a lap instead of engaging physically. Corrado...he really struggles in containing players physically, not sure why he's not using his speed smarts positioning to deal with that issue more...but it's been a consistent theme through camp, and around the net is just bad. Hutton has the raw size, and seems to have the poise and smarts to often keep himself out of those situations, but he's still not quite there yet and he's been muscled off of some pucks even in his excellent preseason and the net front thing isn't exactly his forte. I'd be scared to pair him up with any of the above...who also struggle with the physical side of the game.


You can call till the cows come home about how bad Sbisa contract is, and how he has some "errors" in his game...but outside of him...that bottom-4 is small, and/or very non-physical.

Part of why i always hated bringing Weber back over someone else with more diversified skillset and size. Because the way it stands...you want to fit that RH PP shot into the powerplay i guess...but he's a liablity in the physical side of things, along with pretty much the entire rest of our bottom-4 defence. Hamhuis being "capable" but far from a guy who can solely handle an entire pairings worth of physical presence. Bringing Weber back, immediately meant forcing Sbisa up the depth chart due to the specificity of his skillset, to counterbalance what Weber does not bring.

It's where i think the difference between "physical presence" as a "hitter" and as a "handler" is very apparent.


And i think that's where the whole Sbisa-Hutton idea comes from...and the Hamhuis-Bartkowski as well. If that works, great, you've got your pairings. But the Hammer-Bart pairing looked so disjointed, i think you've gotta find another option.

I still think our defence is missing one key top-4 type piece...and i *****ed and moaned endlessly about how Ehrhoff was that piece before he was signed. And i think something like that would have really solidified the defence...But here we are...and as it stands, Sbisa is the only real "physical presence" of any kind in our d-corps. So there it is...

Can't disagree here. As much flak Sbisa gets from the board, he offers the physicality no one else on this blueline does. If only Edler, Tanev, and Hutton were physical monsters we wouldn't have this problem. But for Sbisa's size and mobility, it's what we have to work with.

 

[The Drop]

If Benning waived Vey....
I'd give him a

 

[CherryToke]

I'd agree with you somewhat....but the only problem Sbisa is about the only physical d-man they have....without him, they're as soft as butter.... group got manhandled last year by the Flames and even with the adds of Bartkowski and Hutton, the d-corps is still pretty passive.

lets not get it twisted. they were manhandled by the Flames because the "tough" pairing couldn't move the puck quick enough and ended up getting hemmed in their own zone on almost every shift. the other pairings didn't really have this problem.

 

[biturbo19]

Can't disagree here. As much flak Sbisa gets from the board, he offers the physicality no one else on this blueline does. If only Edler, Tanev, and Hutton were physical monsters we wouldn't have this problem. But for Sbisa's size and mobility, it's what we have to work with.

I think it's pretty evident in how McLellan reacted to that whooping by the Canucks...

It was not "more systems, more positioning, more film, more skill".

It was, "Battle Drills".


It's not the "sexy" thing like dangles, or the "statistical thing" like corsi...but hockey is still a game of battles. Physical battles. It's a physical game. Puck battles are the micro form of the game. It's extremely important.


Sbisa has some clear weaknesses (handling the puck under pressure)...but he has some clear strengths as well (he can skate with and hit with anyone in the league, and he wins puck battles, very consistently). Which is why i've said for a long while now...what he needs as a partner, is someone who can take those pucks he frees up, and transition them.

I'm actually kinda intrigued by how that Sbisa-Hutton duo looked after that initial cluster**** shift.

We really need Sbisa's physical ability to compete in the lineup, like it or not...the best situation is to find the right fit with him who can move the pucks he inevitably frees up and dribbles behind the net or whatever. Hutton actually showed some ability to do that, which is cool imo.


For me, the defence at this point would look something like:

Edler-Tanev
Hamhuis-???
Sbisa-Hutton

Who rolls with Hamhuis...i guess it's probably Weber, due to his RH PP shot...but i really don't like that much because Sbisa-Hutton is gonna be your "puck-moving offensive pairing". And Weber in any defensive situations is terrible. Corrado has fallen way short of the mark this preseason. Bartkowski has looked...promising, but also looked his worst with Hamhuis. So idk what you do. It's confused.

Try Hutton with Hammer and go back to Sbisa+Bart/Weber as the 3rd pair? Sbisa-Weber has always been a complete disaster. Bart-Weber couldn't move a gnat from the front of the net. We're probably missing a piece...

 

[PM]

Sbisa's defensive lapses and overall horrible decision making are not worth his physicality. He is not the answer to our soft defense.

 

[WTG]

The answer is not putting Corrado in the press box for like half a year so he can actually develop (good one btw JB&WD smart decision).

Also, to give Pedan lots of minutes so that next season he can replace Sbisa.

Fixed our weak ass defense.

 

[biturbo19]

lets not get it twisted. they were manhandled by the Flames because the "tough" pairing couldn't move the puck quick enough and ended up getting hemmed in their own zone on almost every shift. the other pairings didn't really have this problem.

Sure, other pairings didn't have the same problem, because they weren't thrown out in the same "hitting dummy" role for "Farkland" or whatever his name is. Weber still managed to get his pairing ventilated real good anyway.

And the reality is...Bieksa is not a pure puck mover, nor was he ever really...and Sbisa is definitely not a "puck mover". And the Flames were given a few extra counts on all their "finishing checks" - because it's the playoffs.

That pairing pairing was marched out there to fail, and get very very "banged up" doing so.

It was a complete disaster, i don't think anyone disagrees...


But i also don't think anyone disagrees that was a poor fit as a pairing.

 

[CherryToke]

Sure, other pairings didn't have the same problem, because they weren't thrown out in the same "hitting dummy" role for "Farkland" or whatever his name is. Weber still managed to get his pairing ventilated real good anyway.

And the reality is...Bieksa is not a pure puck mover, nor was he ever really...and Sbisa is definitely not a "puck mover". And the Flames were given a few extra counts on all their "finishing checks" - because it's the playoffs.

That pairing pairing was marched out there to fail, and get very very "banged up" doing so.

It was a complete disaster, i don't think anyone disagrees...


But i also don't think anyone disagrees that was a poor fit as a pairing.

yeah.. that pairing was just dreadful. Bieksa was every bit as bad as Sbisa, maybe worse. and IMO Bieksa he's been bad for years but Hamhuis covered for him so well. maybe there's hope for Sbisa if they find the right partner.

and I agree with you about Weber. he's not a guy you want to go to battle with in the playoffs.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

So providing McCann and Virtanen play the first 9 games without press box visits they will be playing

Flames
Flames
Ducks
Kings
Blues
Oilers
Capitals
Red Wings
Canadiens

Looks like a fairly hard schedule, I know we usually do well against the east but the Kings, Ducks and to some extent Flames should be the litmus test......racking up points against the Oilers and eastern teams while getting dominated by the West should be a factor which I believe it will be

The bolded are home games and look a heck of a lot easier than if they were on the road.

 

[Hit the post]

Can't disagree here. As much flak Sbisa gets from the board, he offers the physicality no one else on this blueline does. If only Edler, Tanev, and Hutton were physical monsters we wouldn't have this problem. But for Sbisa's size and mobility, it's what we have to work with.

If only the league wouldn't hand out @%!%@#$% suspensions in the past on Edler - maybe he'd be more inclined to play like that physical monster.

 

[biturbo19]

If only the league wouldn't hand out @%!%@#$% suspensions in the past on Edler - maybe he'd be more inclined to play like that physical monster.

Hard to say really...

but this is reality where that did happen...


And "It is what it is".



honestly, i have a real hard time believing that one suspension was the difference between Edler being a physical presence and not.

 

[Hit the post]

honestly, i have a real hard time believing that one suspension was the difference between Edler being a physical presence and not.

Both of his suspensions (Mike Smith & Tomas Hertl) were BS IMHO. Especially the Hertl one - hilarious that the Dustin Brown [knee on knee hit] that really knocked Hertl out of action for a lengthy period of time got off scott free.

Three of them would likely result on him getting a pretty lengthy suspension I tend to think (repeat offender label).

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Discussion of the Vey Trade and its merits has been moved to the Managerial Thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1958631

Perhaps everyone should refresh themselves on the Board Specific Rules, as well: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1958627

Let's not make every thread a Benning/Management thread.

 

[The Poacher]

Well sounds like Jakes made this team. Willie said he may go back to Horvat JV and Bear line later on in the season but won't be playing together tonight.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Well sounds like Jakes made this team. Willie said he may go back to Horvat JV and Bear line later on in the season but won't be playing together tonight.

I'm disappointed by this but it's understandable.

I'd be interested to see a line of Baertschi-McCann-Vrbata. Baertschi's advanced playmaking skills should be a good fit for Sniper Vrbata. McCann also gets to play with skilled linemates.

 

[Nuckles]

The Gaunce quote makes me think that McCann might get 9 games, and if he isn't great they'll send him back to the CHL and call up Gaunce. Or maybe they just want to get a better look at the guys still on the roster before deciding who to waive/send down, and once the season starts+Higgins is put on IR they'll call him back up.

 

[polarbearcub]

I think gaunce is nhl ready now.

 

[Nuckles]

^ I agree. He's definitely better than two forwards who are likely to make the opening day roster.





I hope being sent down doesn't mess with his head, but he really wasn't playing well.

 

[alternate]

I think gaunce is nhl ready now.

Sure looks close at the very least. Pros to him starting in Utica is he should see top 6 ice time and PPwork. Not sure whats better, bottom 6in the N or top 6 in the A at this point.

 

[Horse McHindu]

I think gaunce is nhl ready now.

I agree, but Benning/WD are hell bent on having Prust/Dorsett anchor those 4th lines.

If there is an injury to our bottom 6 on C or LW, I expect Gaunce to be our 1st call-up (definitely for LW - if there is a bottom 6 injury at C, they'll likely go with Cracknell).

 

[Get North]

Everyone is talking about the young, flashy prospects but I really liked Cracknell's game. He works really hard, and when he, Dorsett, and Prust get possession in the offensive zone, they are really tough to play against because they are gritty and play a good cycle game. Not a lot of flash but if they can play like that, I wouldn't mind that as a 4th line. They can play a simple, dangerous game IMO and they are all defensively responsible. Also, McCann looks to have beat out Sutter for the 3rd line centre spot according to Willie, Sutter isn't playing centre and the 3rd line wingers look very similar to a potential opening night 3rd line. Willie hasn't talked a lot about Vey which seems to me that he's sort of the odd guy out.

 

[me2]

I think it's pretty evident in how McLellan reacted to that whooping by the Canucks...

It was not "more systems, more positioning, more film, more skill".

It was, "Battle Drills".


It's not the "sexy" thing like dangles, or the "statistical thing" like corsi...but hockey is still a game of battles. Physical battles. It's a physical game. Puck battles are the micro form of the game. It's extremely important.


Sbisa has some clear weaknesses (handling the puck under pressure)...but he has some clear strengths as well (he can skate with and hit with anyone in the league, and he wins puck battles, very consistently). Which is why i've said for a long while now...what he needs as a partner, is someone who can take those pucks he frees up, and transition them.

I'm actually kinda intrigued by how that Sbisa-Hutton duo looked after that initial cluster**** shift.

We really need Sbisa's physical ability to compete in the lineup, like it or not...the best situation is to find the right fit with him who can move the pucks he inevitably frees up and dribbles behind the net or whatever. Hutton actually showed some ability to do that, which is cool imo.


For me, the defence at this point would look something like:

Edler-Tanev
Hamhuis-???
Sbisa-Hutton

Who rolls with Hamhuis...i guess it's probably Weber, due to his RH PP shot...but i really don't like that much because Sbisa-Hutton is gonna be your "puck-moving offensive pairing". And Weber in any defensive situations is terrible. Corrado has fallen way short of the mark this preseason. Bartkowski has looked...promising, but also looked his worst with Hamhuis. So idk what you do. It's confused.

Try Hutton with Hammer and go back to Sbisa+Bart/Weber as the 3rd pair? Sbisa-Weber has always been a complete disaster. Bart-Weber couldn't move a gnat from the front of the net. We're probably missing a piece...

You can't break Sbisa from his contract sadly and while Sbisa is here sucking up that much money to be the team's " #4" he is guaranteed a spot and that means less money to fix the #4d spot.

He is huge road block to fixing the D, Weber is being forced into the top 4 because Benning needs his skill set and can't afford better. So while Sbisa brings some physicality he blocks the reform needed to get better, to get physicality at a good price elsewhere too.

 

[TheWanderer]

yeah.. that pairing was just dreadful. Bieksa was every bit as bad as Sbisa, maybe worse. and IMO Bieksa he's been bad for years but Hamhuis covered for him so well. maybe there's hope for Sbisa if they find the right partner.

and I agree with you about Weber. he's not a guy you want to go to battle with in the playoffs.

Weber is a guy you make-do with during the regular season, then upgrade his position at the deadline if you are serious about going anywhere in the play-offs. At least his contract is modest.

For how bad Sbisa is, or Bieksa was, their contracts are the reason we have so much to say about them.

That was Edler, too, until Tanev came and fixed him.

 

[Ryp37]

For as bad as Kenins looked he still looked better then Prust

But Dorsett didn't text Benning thank you when Kenins slotted in

 

[Pip]

I really hope that Kenins can find his game again. Looked like he was playing not to make a mistake.