Seravalli: Official JT Miller Trade Thread - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[JohnHodgson]

The whole "Coleman got 2 1sts" and such argument is so dumb. The market changes year to year. You dont see GMs trading 1sts for a Paul Gaustad or Erat for Forsberg anymore. GMs learn.

???

Nick Foligno?

Hello???

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

???

Nick Foligno?

Hello???

Did you read the part where i said the market changes year to year? Reading comprehension, hello???

 

[JohnHodgson]

Did you read the part where i said the market changes year to year? Reading comprehension, hello???

You just said "nobody trades a 1st for players like Gaustad anymore". You also said "GMs learn"

But Dubas literally just traded a 1st for Foligno last year, who is a comparable player to Gaustad.

What are you even talking about?

 

[Boondock]

Did you read the part where i said the market changes year to year? Reading comprehension, hello???

So what you're saying is this could be the year Miller gets 3 x 1st value.

 

[canwincup]

Did you read the part where i said the market changes year to year? Reading comprehension, hello???

What evidence do you have the market is going to be different this year? You're just making a baseless statement.

I can assure you the market isn't going to change when there's a first line Center available for potentially two playoff runs at $2.5 per year.

 

[Ainsy01]

From a Flames perspective, this is what I've been struggling with.
What mix of picks/prospects/players would make sense here. Miller, himself, makes a lot from a Calgary perspective. He'd be a perfect second line centre for this club that desperately needs one. That said, Calgary's not in a position where they're a JT Miller away from being a powerhouse unstoppable force; and should move our top prospect and a first for him either.

As Flames fans we have just kinda given up hope on any real acquisitions and assume Treliving will be a just be bridesmaid

 

[JohnHodgson]

No, because Canucks fans are saying Miller is worth three 1st round picks..so is kaprizov five or more? Is connor McDavid 8 or more? Jt Miller being a free agent in 1.5 years isn't getting that

You literally answered your own question.

McDavid is worth 8 1st round picks or more.

Kaprizov is worth 5 1st round picks or more.

People need to get off their high horses when it comes to picks. Of course an established superstar like Kaprizov is worth 5 1st round picks. Of course the best player in the NHL by a country mile is worth 8 1st round picks. Do you even watch the NHL?

 

[JohnHodgson]

What evidence do you have the market is going to be different this year? You're just making a baseless statement.

I can assure you the market isn't going to change when there's a first line Center available for potentially two playoff runs at $2.5 per year.

Saying the "market changes every year" without expanding on it is basically trying to sound smart but really, it's just an incredibly phony response.

Might as well not even say anything

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

So what you're saying is this could be the year Miller gets 3 x 1st value.

You are setting yourself up for disappointment. Thats what im saying.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

He's not top 20 currently though. He's literally 30th.

He’s actually 27th but way to make stats up. Regardless, it’s not all about points for the millionth time. Linemates matter, other factors matter. He’s 27th in points but also plays the PK and has one of the best faceoff percentages in the league. Not to mention he can play center or wing efficiently. He’s a top 20 forward in the NHL. Simple

 

[Canadian Canuck]

You just said "nobody trades a 1st for players like Gaustad anymore". You also said "GMs learn"

But Dubas literally just traded a 1st for Foligno last year, who is a comparable player to Gaustad.

What are you even talking about?

Don’t bother with the poster his posts are clueless

 

[JohnHodgson]

Please show me the deal for a player at Miller's comparable age, salary range and term, that returned anything more than a 22-31 range 1st rounder and a Top 50 prospect (which Kravtsov is despite all the bashing).

You're acting like it isn't a common experience for fans of players on the brink to be SUPER DEMANDING OF A TEAM'S TOP THREE PROSPECTS +, only to be let down at what they actually got dealt for.

Vancouver is getting a late first and a B+ prospect for Miller, at best. Maybe a 2nd thrown in. If you don't believe me, let's revisit after the deal is done. Because it's HFBoards and THIS - ALWAYS - HAPPENS.

I mean hey, does it happen for Zach Jones and a 1st? Sure, I could see that. The value there is not a whole lot different from Kravtsov and a 1st lol.

Let's pin this post for when the Miller trade happens.

So off-base I don't even know where to start.

You think JT Miller is going to get less than what Blake Coleman got? Or JGP? Despite being twice the player?

Zach Jones and a late 1st?

You DO know that JT Miller is under contract for one more year and doesn't need to be traded at all right? Why on earth would the Canucks settle for a trash offer like Zach Jones and a 1st?

Please explain to me how that makes any sense. Fair value is a package equivalent to 3 1st round draft picks. Neither Kravstov nor Zach Jones hold first round value.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Jt Miller@50%+Tyler Motte to Minny for Fiala+Lambos+1st?

 

[AKL]

Jt Miller@50%+Tyler Motte to Minny for Fiala+Lambos+1st?

No lol, not even a little bit

 

[John Johnson]

Jt Miller@50%+Tyler Motte to Minny for Fiala+Lambos+1st?

Canucks don't really need another winger, plus Lambos is LHD which isn't really a need. Plus the first will be late, and Lambos was also a late first round pick so thats basically 2 late firsts plus Fiala. I would only take that if we didn't add Motte and didn't retain 50%.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Obviously it depends on the market, and with that being said, you have potentially a buyers market this year with guys like Miller, Giroux, Hertl, Pavelski all being available. And that's just for the top tier players. You'll have teams who are selling second tier assets as well, and some buyers may be more inclined to save their assets and go with those guys. So right off the bat the market isn't really in your favor at this point.

But you also can't just say "well Goodrow and Coleman returned 1sts, and Miller is way better than they are, so he should return 3 1sts" because what Coleman and Goodrow got doesn't matter and it's only a part of the rental picture.

No one is denying that you'll get a 1st+ for Miller. What people are taking exception to is the idea that the + has to be the absolute upper echelon of prospects, or that teams can't have prospects that are just simply off the table. It's more often than not, not the case.

Can we stop with all the "market" talk?

Nobody knows who's available right now. None of us are GMs or executives that can make phone calls to "assess" the market.

Who knows what the market can be? There's no clear cup contender this year, the window is absolutely wide open. I can see 10-15 buyers Just thinking out loud: Panthers, Lightning, Leafs, Bruins, Huricanes, Penguns, Rangers, Capitals, Avalanche, Blues, Golden Knights, Predators, Wild, Flames, Oilers. All these teams are likely looking to buy unless they plummet down the standings.

JT Miller would likely be at the top of the list for almost all these teams. JT Miller is the type of asset that SETS the market. Unless Hertl is made available, JT is by far the most desirable player on the market.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

miller with 50% retention, halak, and a 2nd for a time machine to go back to june 1994 and kidnap brian leetch

 

[AKL]

Can we stop with all the "market" talk?

Nobody knows who's available right now. None of us are GMs or executives that can make phone calls to "assess" the market.

Who knows what the market can be? There's no clear cup contender this year, the window is absolutely wide open. I can see 10-15 buyers Just thinking out loud: Panthers, Lightning, Leafs, Bruins, Huricanes, Penguns, Rangers, Capitals, Avalanche, Blues, Golden Knights, Predators, Wild, Flames, Oilers. All these teams are likely looking to buy unless they plummet down the standings.

JT Miller would likely be at the top of the list for almost all these teams. JT Miller is the type of asset that SETS the market. Unless Hertl is made available, JT is by far the most desirable player on the market.

Lots of assumptions being made by a fan base that doesn't want other fan bases making any assumptions.

No, I'm not going to stop with the market talk because it's 100% relevant to the discussion. If you don't like talking about the market, don't reply to those posts. And don't demand people stop talking about the market only to turn around and talk about how the market is whatever you want it to be. You're not upset about talk about the market, you're upset that people think the market may not be conducive to the Canucks getting whatever they want.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Lots of assumptions being made by a fan base that doesn't want other fan bases making any assumptions.

Concrete assumptions (the one's I made) versus vague assumptions (the one's you made).

Not exactly apples to apples.

Who cares what the market is this year? JT Miller or Tomas Hertl will set the market, if they get traded. Maybe first round picks will fly like candy this year?

Nobody really knows what the "market" will be like so why even try to speculate? Let's use PAST deadline deals (which I did)... let's use HISTORICAL data to try to assess value... instead of just saying... "OH but the market though!"

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Don’t bother with the poster his posts are clueless

Going to be a lot of clueless Canuck fan posts when you see what he returns.

 

[AKL]

Concrete assumptions (the one's I made) versus vague assumptions (the one's you made).

Not exactly apples to apples.

Who cares what the market is this year? JT Miller or Tomas Hertl will set the market, if they get traded. Maybe first round picks will fly like candy this year?

Nobody really knows what the "market" will be like so why even try to speculate? Let's use PAST deadline deals (which I did)... let's use HISTORICAL data to try to assess value... instead of just saying... "OH but the market though!"

You continue to speculate on what the market is in a way that favors your narrative while telling everyone else not to bother speculating on what the market is. You're not making concrete assumptions compared to others vague assumptions, you're just spewing biased viewpoints.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Lots of assumptions being made by a fan base that doesn't want other fan bases making any assumptions.

No, I'm not going to stop with the market talk because it's 100% relevant to the discussion. If you don't like talking about the market, don't reply to those posts. And don't demand people stop talking about the market only to turn around and talk about how the market is whatever you want it to be. You're not upset about talk about the market, you're upset that people think the market may not be conducive to the Canucks getting whatever they want.

It's not relevant to the current discussion because NOBODY knows what the market is. If you insist on talking about this "market" talk go ahead.

Trying to include arbitrary variables instead of looking at historical data to assess the situation is really making you look smart.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Going to be a lot of clueless Canuck fan posts when you see what he returns.

Other way around lol.

 

[JohnHodgson]

You continue to speculate on what the market is in a way that favors your narrative while telling everyone else not to bother speculating on what the market is. You're not making concrete assumptions compared to others vague assumptions, you're just spewing biased viewpoints.

I'm happy to debate any of my assumptions with you. If you think me saying JT Miller is one of the best assets at the trade deadline is some sort of "bias narrative", then I'll let you do you.

 

[AKL]

It's not relevant to the current discussion because NOBODY knows what the market is. If you insist on talking about this "market" talk go ahead.

Trying to include arbitrary variables instead of looking at historical data to assess the situation is really making you look smart.

Then why do you keep talking about the market as it pertains to Miller getting a massive return because of the market?

If you don't want people to speculate on the market then stop speculating on the market.