Seravalli: Official JT Miller Trade Thread - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[smoneil]

It’s ironic that the stats you posted show that they are actually very close. I agree that just looking at the stats alone, Zibanejad is the better player, but you going hyperbolic with the ainec nonsense is not really helping your case here.

"Hyperbolic"? A Vancouver fan stated boldly that Miller would be the Rangers' best skater other than Bread and Fox. Another Vancouver poster doubled down on it. I've seen plenty of both players, and found that claim to be hysterical. So I pulled up the numbers, which actually did more to prove my point that I thought they would.

And again, we go back another season, and the numbers start looking far worse for Miller. The numbers I gave gave him the benefit of only having the best three years of his career counted. And even then, despite Miller playing more games, Zib has 26 more goals, 7 more points, 8 more SHP (added that based on how much Vancouver fans have been praising his PK skills. Also, because points aren't everything on a PK, the Rangers' unit was 3rd in the league, last I checked), and 5 more GWG.

If we go back to a 4 year sample?
Miller adds: 75 games, 13 goals, 34 assists, 47 points, 0 SHP, and 4 GWG.
Zib adds: 82 games, 30 goals, 44 assists, 74 points, 2 SHP, and 5 GWG.

That fourth year evens the GP, and sees Zib widen the gap in goals (43 more goals), narrow the gap in assists (9 fewer than Miller), widen the gap in points (34 more points), and further widen the gap in SHP and GWG (10 more and 6 more respectively). If the last four years have shown anything, it's that Miller is a clear level below Zibanejad, but benefitted from having very gifted line-mates to pass the puck to.

 

[CraigsList]

Miller for Dumba?

 

[smoneil]

As an outsider, I can't resist wading into the argument ~ I can somewhat buy the notion Miller wouldn't necessarily displace guys on NYR's top PP unit.

Kreider is probably the best net front guy in the league. 12 goals already this year (!) Now, lots of NHL guys have *some* ability to screen goalies and/or tip pucks so theoretically you could put someone else there instead, but he's like.... really good at it

Maybe you bump Strome, but in that case, why not just try one of the kids there instead?

I guess what I'm building up to (in a roundabout way, naturally) is I don't think the Rangers make much sense for Miller. They could use the help down the middle, sure, but likely can't keep him beyond his current contract

This is it exactly. Miller wouldn't do what he does in Vancouver because he wouldn't get the same minutes or opportunity in NY that he does now. Zib is better, Strome and Panarin are stitched at the hip (to the point that they have literally pouted when split up for a game--it's full on bromance to the point where it's almost problematic). So why go out and get a top line center when you don't need a top line center and he wouldn't be one on your team? Yeah, you could play him at wing, but why pay center prices when you can just go out and get a winger? Yeah, he can play the PK, but why pay a premium for that when you already have a top-5 PK unit in the league? It just makes no sense for this team to buy that player. You are also absolutely right that they don't have the cap space to re-sign him, so he'd be walking right about when the Rangers would (hopefully) be set to open their window.

You were only wrong about one thing. As of tonight, Kreider has 14 power play goals due to his net-front play.

 

[jackjohnson]

Last three seasons:

Miller: 161gp, 54g, 103a, 157p. 3 Short-handed points. 9 GWG.

Zibanejad: 154gp, 80g, 84a, 164p. 11 Short-handed points. 14 GWG.

Your boy Miller, despite playing 7 more games than Zib over the last three years, is WELL behind Zib in every category but one (assists). And "give the puck to Pettersson/Boeser/Horvat" isn't a strategy he can deploy on the Rangers. Also, 13 of Zib's GWG came last year and the year before (where the Rangers only had a total of 5 wins more than Vancouver).

Miller ain't close to Zibanejad.

Miller aint close? look at the point totals plus what Miller bring in PP, PK, physicality and leaderships plus better FO%. I think Miller is pretty damn close if not equal. Now Zibanejad might have a bit more of that offensive skill but Miller is better in terms of physicality and in faceoffs.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

"Hyperbolic"? A Vancouver fan stated boldly that Miller would be the Rangers' best skater other than Bread and Fox. Another Vancouver poster doubled down on it. I've seen plenty of both players, and found that claim to be hysterical. So I pulled up the numbers, which actually did more to prove my point that I thought they would.

And again, we go back another season, and the numbers start looking far worse for Miller. The numbers I gave gave him the benefit of only having the best three years of his career counted. And even then, despite Miller playing more games, Zib has 26 more goals, 7 more points, 8 more SHP (added that based on how much Vancouver fans have been praising his PK skills. Also, because points aren't everything on a PK, the Rangers' unit was 3rd in the league, last I checked), and 5 more GWG.

If we go back to a 4 year sample?
Miller adds: 75 games, 13 goals, 34 assists, 47 points, 0 SHP, and 4 GWG.
Zib adds: 82 games, 30 goals, 44 assists, 74 points, 2 SHP, and 5 GWG.

That fourth year evens the GP, and sees Zib widen the gap in goals (43 more goals), narrow the gap in assists (9 fewer than Miller), widen the gap in points (34 more points), and further widen the gap in SHP and GWG (10 more and 6 more respectively). If the last four years have shown anything, it's that Miller is a clear level below Zibanejad, but benefitted from having very gifted line-mates to pass the puck to.

Or you know, his ice time went up by 6 mins a game, as well as moving from the 3rd line in Tampa to the 1st in Vancouver, the fact that he was able to put up 47 points while playing on the 3rd line for the Lightning is pretty damn impressive, he also had 18 points in his 1st 19 games with Tampa including 10 goals, this is some pretty important context being ignored.

For the record I think Zib is the better player I also think the difference between the two is closer than your making it out to be.

 

[jackjohnson]

"Hyperbolic"? A Vancouver fan stated boldly that Miller would be the Rangers' best skater other than Bread and Fox. Another Vancouver poster doubled down on it. I've seen plenty of both players, and found that claim to be hysterical. So I pulled up the numbers, which actually did more to prove my point that I thought they would.

And again, we go back another season, and the numbers start looking far worse for Miller. The numbers I gave gave him the benefit of only having the best three years of his career counted. And even then, despite Miller playing more games, Zib has 26 more goals, 7 more points, 8 more SHP (added that based on how much Vancouver fans have been praising his PK skills. Also, because points aren't everything on a PK, the Rangers' unit was 3rd in the league, last I checked), and 5 more GWG.

If we go back to a 4 year sample?
Miller adds: 75 games, 13 goals, 34 assists, 47 points, 0 SHP, and 4 GWG.
Zib adds: 82 games, 30 goals, 44 assists, 74 points, 2 SHP, and 5 GWG.

That fourth year evens the GP, and sees Zib widen the gap in goals (43 more goals), narrow the gap in assists (9 fewer than Miller), widen the gap in points (34 more points), and further widen the gap in SHP and GWG (10 more and 6 more respectively). If the last four years have shown anything, it's that Miller is a clear level below Zibanejad, but benefitted from having very gifted line-mates to pass the puck to.

Honestly, that is pretty much true. Other than Fox and Panarin, I dont see anyone better than Miller. Maybe Zibanejad is equal or slightly better but thats pretty much it. Name me 5 or 6 players better than Miller on the Rangers right now. Rangers are not really a powerhouse team like Canes or Avs or Florida.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Miller aint close? look at the point totals plus what Miller bring in PP, PK, physicality and leaderships plus better FO%. I think Miller is pretty damn close if not equal. Now Zibanejad might have a bit more of that offensive skill but Miller is better in terms of physicality and in faceoffs.

Faceoffs are one of the least important stats out there and did you really bring up PP as a point for Miller vs. Zibanejad? f***, Zibanejad's biggest criticism is that he's too much of PP player and isn't good enough 5 on 5. The guy is also a stud on the PK.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Honestly, that is pretty much true. Other than Fox and Panarin, I dont see anyone better than Miller. Maybe Zibanejad is equal or slightly better but thats pretty much it. Name me 5 or 6 players better than Miller on the Rangers right now. Rangers are not really a powerhouse team like Canes or Avs or Florida.

I haven't read this entire thread, did he say there are 5 or 6 better players than Miller? He said Fox, Panarin, and Zibanejad.

 

[smoneil]

Honestly, that is pretty much true. Other than Fox and Panarin, I dont see anyone better than Miller. Maybe Zibanejad is equal or slightly better but thats pretty much it. Name me 5 or 6 players better than Miller on the Rangers right now. Rangers are not really a powerhouse team like Canes or Avs or Florida.

Never said there were 5 or 6 players better than Miller. I said that Zibanejad was one of them. And there's no "maybe" about it.

 

[smoneil]

Miller aint close? look at the point totals plus what Miller bring in PP, PK, physicality and leaderships plus better FO%. I think Miller is pretty damn close if not equal. Now Zibanejad might have a bit more of that offensive skill but Miller is better in terms of physicality and in faceoffs.

All of the things you posted? Zibanejad is better than Miller even when limiting the comparison to the best three years of Miller's career. Zib has more points (and you can add three more after his game tonight), FAR more goals, more PP points, more SH points, is the top center on a top 5 PK unit, and is part of the leadership group (one not reported to be breaking into factions and poisoning the room) of a top 5 team in the standings. Miller is more physical, yes, but we have guys for that. Miller is better at faceoffs, but you don't trade in a massive goal differential for a few more faceoff wins. If they were THAT big of a deal, we'd go out and get a FO specialist, or just promote the one we currently have on the top line of the AHL team.

You (and Vancouver fans in general) seem to be A LOT more invested in trying to sell us on Miller than Ranger fans are in buying him. Vancouver is now the third team in a row that seems to want to move on from Miller, despite the good numbers. Curious, isn't it?

 

[The S5]

If Miller is such a prolific player, Vancouver should figure out a way to keep him, or at least keep him away from the Rangers.

 

[Paddys Pub]

If Miller is such a prolific player, Vancouver should figure out a way to keep him, or at least keep him away from the Rangers.

That’s being a little daft isn’t it?

Van won’t be really competitive for at least 2-3 years. By the time they are, Miller will be on his way out of his prime, while the core is just entering theirs.

Not to mention, his contract will end up making Van lose younger players because his soon to be large cap hit.
Miller is best of on a contender right now, as he is in his prime, and plays a game that will be beast mode in the playoffs.

 

[jackjohnson]

All of the things you posted? Zibanejad is better than Miller even when limiting the comparison to the best three years of Miller's career. Zib has more points (and you can add three more after his game tonight), FAR more goals, more PP points, more SH points, is the top center on a top 5 PK unit, and is part of the leadership group (one not reported to be breaking into factions and poisoning the room) of a top 5 team in the standings. Miller is more physical, yes, but we have guys for that. Miller is better at faceoffs, but you don't trade in a massive goal differential for a few more faceoff wins. If they were THAT big of a deal, we'd go out and get a FO specialist, or just promote the one we currently have on the top line of the AHL team.

You (and Vancouver fans in general) seem to be A LOT more invested in trying to sell us on Miller than Ranger fans are in buying him. Vancouver is now the third team in a row that seems to want to move on from Miller, despite the good numbers. Curious, isn't it?

Vancouver is moving away from Miller because he will be asking for a lot more than Vancouver can afford. But if he re-signs in Vancouver for a good cap hit, I will be perfectly happy.

 

[jackjohnson]

If Miller is such a prolific player, Vancouver should figure out a way to keep him, or at least keep him away from the Rangers.

If Miller asks to be signed for $6 million long term, am sure Vancouver will happily keep him. The reason for trading him is going to be due to higher asking price and Vancouver cant afford that while they re-sign their other players like Horvat for example.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

If Miller is such a prolific player, Vancouver should figure out a way to keep him, or at least keep him away from the Rangers.

*Sigh* you would think people would understand that when a team isn’t contending they trade players that are good to build for the future. Apparently that went right over your head.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Miller for Dumba?

Minny adds. Also does Brodin play the right side? I’d rather a Miller/Brodin base

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

All of the things you posted? Zibanejad is better than Miller even when limiting the comparison to the best three years of Miller's career. Zib has more points (and you can add three more after his game tonight), FAR more goals, more PP points, more SH points, is the top center on a top 5 PK unit, and is part of the leadership group (one not reported to be breaking into factions and poisoning the room) of a top 5 team in the standings. Miller is more physical, yes, but we have guys for that. Miller is better at faceoffs, but you don't trade in a massive goal differential for a few more faceoff wins. If they were THAT big of a deal, we'd go out and get a FO specialist, or just promote the one we currently have on the top line of the AHL team.

You (and Vancouver fans in general) seem to be A LOT more invested in trying to sell us on Miller than Ranger fans are in buying him. Vancouver is now the third team in a row that seems to want to move on from Miller, despite the good numbers. Curious, isn't it?

Sure it's curious if you completely ignore context, maybe look up why the lightning let him go too, since you don't seem to know what your talking about.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Minny adds. Also does Brodin play the right side? I’d rather a Miller/Brodin base

The wild ain't giving up Brodin for Miller he's signed for longer and way too important to their team.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

The wild ain't giving up Brodin for Miller he's signed for longer and way too important to their team.

Fair. I’d do Dumba+

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

If I’m Vancouver Boeser goes before Miller. Boeser will be easier to replace.

 

[Peter Griffin]

If I’m Vancouver Boeser goes before Miller. Boeser will be easier to replace.

I think ultimately both should be moved.

 

[FliegerKorps]

As an outsider who has seen a fair share of threads being derailed... this one is something.

I don't get why the Rangers wouldnt entertain trading Schneider and a 1st for Miller. On a hockey specific standpoint, this is no a brainer.

 

[The S5]

*Sigh* you would think people would understand that when a team isn’t contending they trade players that are good to build for the future. Apparently that went right over your head.

No, it didn't. The return expected by many here is that of a cornerstone player. If he was ever, which he has never been, Vancouver would do what ever they could to resign him.

So, my point is simply that I wouldn't want to pay anywhere near the asking price. Some may and live to regret it. I hope my team isn't the one.

 

[heisenbergsitti]

Miller for Dumba?

No,,, Minnesota isn't trading dumba

 

[heisenbergsitti]

Fair. I’d do Dumba+

Dumba isn't available, nor is he getting traded! He was just named alternate captain this year, and Guerin essentially took him off the market! Guerin's own comment was to reassure dumba about his future in Minnesota. Minnesota isn't trading away from their d.