Seravalli: Official JT Miller Trade Thread - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[John Mandalorian]

You get what you pay for. All Cup winners over the past decade won with a very strong 1-2 punch down the middle.

And then when Newhook is ready to be their #2C, move Miller back to wing. Miller would be a very good mentor for someone like Newhook.

Miller likely costs too much. For what the ask is, the Avs might as well trade for Hertl. If the Avs are one of the few teams he'd accept a trade to, then it's a solid indication he might sign with them during the summer. That's better than the Miller scenario that you mention.

 

[smoneil]

Fact is Miller would instantly become the third best skater behind Fox and Breadman, at 2.6, you take that and run.

Mika Zibanejad would respond to this personally, but he's too busy double over in laughter.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Man I genuinely appreciate the deep dive on his stats, thank you!

I'm not exactly sure what part of my response you are replying to specifically though lol. First glance it seems you would be trying to reference my point about "not getting his majority of points on the powerplay" by saying "look he actually DOES get many points in the powerplay", but I wasn't trying to refute that he is good on the powerplay, simply that he does not exclusively rely on the powerplay for points, as evidenced by your breakdown of (essentially) 35 points on the PP and 49 points elsewhere.

I understand your point. I really wasn't trying to refute anything you said. There were posts about the PP and yours was the last post, which is why I quoted it.

It's a fair statement to say that over last season and this, he's in the top 10 in PP scoring and much lower (80ish) in 5v5 scoring among forwards, so it's the PP where he has really excelled. That's not a knock on him at all. If a team can't give him 1st PP time though, his impact to the team may not be as great, even if he is still good in all situations.

The reason I did the analysis is that there was a proposal on the main board about Necas+ for Miller so I wanted to look at how each guy performs. Canes have one of the best PP units in the NHL so IF they were to acquire Miller (and I don't think they will), he very likely will not be getting 1st PP time on a team like Carolina (can't speak for other teams).

Like you said, he doesn't exclusively rely on PP points, but that's where he's really been elite last season and this.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

The fact that you think that they would move Strome off PP1 for Miller shows how clueless you actually are.

Then to boot, you’re naive enough to believe that Seravalli couldn’t be being fed something by a Vancouver staff member to drum up interest, which is a very common practice by teams and media.

Get lost.

You’re legitimately clueless. I know Strome and Panarin have chemistry, doesn’t mean Miller isn’t the better player and will perform better. Even if Strome stays Miller replaces Kreider easily and it’s not even close. Laf can center PP2.

Ahhh the usual **** argument where if you don’t like a rumour it must mean it was just fed by a staff member.

You get lost lmao.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Mika Zibanejad would respond to this personally, but he's too busy double over in laughter.

Yeah no.

 

[zcaptain]

I heard from the drunk down on the corner that there are 5 teams in on Miller, and us idiots have no clue what any of the GM's are offering.

He also said he likes Canadian beer over American beer! But that is just opinion!

 

[One Winged Angel]

You’re legitimately clueless. I know Strome and Panarin have chemistry, doesn’t mean Miller isn’t the better player and will perform better. Even if Strome stays Miller replaces Kreider easily and it’s not even close. Laf can center PP2.

It’s clear as day that you’ve never laced up a pair and think because 2 players are skilled that they’re a fit together.

Go touch grass, kid.

Ahhh the usual **** argument where if you don’t like a rumour it must mean it was just fed by a staff member.

You get lost lmao.

You clearly have no idea of how the media works either. Don’t talk about things that you’re not familiar with.

 

[Canuck Luck]

Let me extend a quick courtesy ans. as I'm a bit crushed atm.

A. How each team rolls is exclusive of the other.
B. point 1 was "Sens are a bottom team so their goal is to add young prospects not trade them"
I'm not sure how what I said is contrary to that. They DO want to add prospects, tho I think this is less a matter of position in the standings as it is composition of the roster.
You might think more than a dollar for a dollar + of acceptable product currency, ie good prospects would be considered. But since something like a core of Krav, Nils L, Jones with Strome as a throw in for Sanderson + an acceptable add has not been welcomed, let alone considered, to date, that means that yes, prospects are still on the radar but primo prospects are less likely to be available.

C point 2: Yes, you got me. I was technically wrong. Although the context of what I said supported my point, I did say as you quoted: "any and all overtures to acquire Sanderson, even if by overpay...". This is my own damn fault for being sloppy. "Any and all" = absolute language and only God is absolute. I should have added "Nearly" in front of it. That would have been sufficient while disclaiming for insane offers that are beyond regular overpay into massive crazy overpay
Thrust of my argument, language corrected, holds -- Sandy not being made available

A. Exactly which is why Sanderson and Ott are not comparable to Schneider and NYR and thats not even discussing how Sanderson is a much much better prospect
B. What does the Sens goal have to do with NYR's goal? Like I asked before, is NYR trying to bottom out and collect prospects still or are they trying to contend since they are a top 5 team? The only reason the Sen's goal should be brought up in this discussion is if NYR is trying to have the same goal. If the goal is compete and win the cup at the same time as collecting prospects, enjoy that pipe dream. All 32 teams would love to do that, its not possible.

I think you're too far down the rabbit hole defending your opinion you've forgot the basis to your whole argument. Do you remember how and why Sanderson and Ottawa are being discussed in a thread about Miller to NYR or COL? You brought up Sanderson and Ottawa as a comparable to NYR and Schneider as to why he's not being traded.

So please explain why you keep talking about Ottawa and their goals and how they won't trade Sanderson barring a massive overpayment as a relative to Schneider and NYR?

 

[smoneil]

Yeah no.

Last three seasons:

Miller: 161gp, 54g, 103a, 157p. 3 Short-handed points. 9 GWG.

Zibanejad: 154gp, 80g, 84a, 164p. 11 Short-handed points. 14 GWG.

Your boy Miller, despite playing 7 more games than Zib over the last three years, is WELL behind Zib in every category but one (assists). And "give the puck to Pettersson/Boeser/Horvat" isn't a strategy he can deploy on the Rangers. Also, 13 of Zib's GWG came last year and the year before (where the Rangers only had a total of 5 wins more than Vancouver).

Miller ain't close to Zibanejad.

 

[Drew Doubty]

Last three seasons:

Miller: 161gp, 54g, 103a, 157p. 3 Short-handed points. 9 GWG.

Zibanejad: 154gp, 80g, 84a, 164p. 11 Short-handed points. 14 GWG.

Your boy Miller, despite playing 7 more games than Zib over the last three years, is WELL behind Zib in every category but one (assists). And "give the puck to Pettersson/Boeser/Horvat" isn't a strategy he can deploy on the Rangers. Also, 13 of Zib's GWG came last year and the year before (where the Rangers only had a total of 5 wins more than Vancouver).

Miller ain't close to Zibanejad.

While I think you're right to say Zib over Miller. It is most definitely somewhat close.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Miller likely costs too much. For what the ask is, the Avs might as well trade for Hertl. If the Avs are one of the few teams he'd accept a trade to, then it's a solid indication he might sign with them during the summer. That's better than the Miller scenario that you mention.

If SJS remain in the playoff picture I don't see Hertl being available. Even then, the rumor is about wanting someone with the extra year to give Newook another year to develop into a 2c, and to continue to compete while Mackinnon is on a sweetheart deal.
Miller is likely 100% his target, with guys like Hertl being backups.

Baron, 1st, Compher/Jost and 2022 cond 3rd(upgrades in some capacity based off how deep in playoffs you go) is fair value for Miller with retention. Doesn't hurt your future and helps ours.

 

[smoneil]

While I think you're right to say Zib over Miller. It is most definitely somewhat close.

I compared just the last three seasons, which were the best in Miller's career. Add another year or two back? It looks less close. Miller's done well for himself, but I'm still hesitant. His career has had several ups and downs.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Now I'm open to the idea that maybe Strome has some indescribable chemistry with someone on the Rangers that makes a powerplay click and it's not showing up on the statsheet, but those are pretty aggressive words to use given that.....Player Comparison: J.T. Miller vs. Ryan Strome | Stathead.com

Educate me a bit more on exactly why this was heresy against the ancient magic to suggest that Miller would have been an upgrade?

Did you ever watch Gretzky play with Hull?

Players work together differently. Just because two players are skilled doesn’t mean they’re a fit together. Kreider hasn’t worked with Strome, but works with Mika. Kakko hasn’t worked on Mika and Kreider’s line.

Just because it can’t be measured by a chart doesn’t mean chemistry doesn’t factor in.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

It’s clear as day that you’ve never laced up a pair and think because 2 players are skilled that they’re a fit together.

Go touch grass, kid.



You clearly have no idea of how the media works either. Don’t talk about things that you’re not familiar with.

Lmao zero argument just as I expected. Keep with the insults though, shows how clueless your posts are.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Did you ever watch Gretzky play with Hull?

Players work together differently. Just because two players are skilled doesn’t mean they’re a fit together. Kreider hasn’t worked with Strome, but works with Mika. Kakko hasn’t worked on Mika and Kreider’s line.

Just because it can’t be measured by a chart doesn’t mean chemistry doesn’t factor in.

My oh my Canucks should keep Pearson and not trade him for Panarin. He has good chemistry with Horvat and just because Panarin is skilled doesn’t mean he’s a better fit.

Your arguments are utter trash.

 

[Peter Griffin]

This thread is trash.

 

[AHLdepth]

Did you ever watch Gretzky play with Hull?

Players work together differently. Just because two players are skilled doesn’t mean they’re a fit together. Kreider hasn’t worked with Strome, but works with Mika. Kakko hasn’t worked on Mika and Kreider’s line.

Just because it can’t be measured by a chart doesn’t mean chemistry doesn’t factor in.

Sure sure I wasn't being facetious when I talked about chemistry possibly factoring into Strome on the PP.

I'll say this though, it's a bold move to argue that some of your players not having chemistry with some players, and some having chemistry with some players somehow equates to "not a chance the better (statistically) powerplay player would even get a sniff at our powerplay".

 

[One Winged Angel]

Lmao zero argument just as I expected. Keep with the insults though, shows how clueless your posts are.

You’ve literally provided nothing while calling me out for the same thing. You don’t think before you post, at all.

I’ve literally told you why he doesn’t fit for the Rangers. You’ve done nothing but apply an Xbox mindset to real life when it doesn’t work like that.

I’m done with you. Your text isn’t worth reading.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Sure sure I wasn't being facetious when I talked about chemistry possibly factoring into Strome on the PP.

I'll say this though, it's a bold move to argue that some of your players not having chemistry with some players, and some having chemistry with some players somehow equates to "not a chance the better (statistically) powerplay player would even get a sniff at our powerplay".

Ok, so why exactly are the Rangers "fixing" a top-10 PP unit that CLEARLY isn't broken?

Just for context, Gallant refuses to sit Nemeth, when he is OBJECTIVELY dogshit by both the eye test and metrics because of loyalty and grit/size/experience. He's not going to take Strome off that unit and they've run 4 forwards and 1 d-man for years now.

While it's technically possible, I SEVERELY doubt that would happen if they got Miller.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

You’ve literally provided nothing while calling me out for the same thing. You don’t think before you post, at all.

I’ve literally told you why he doesn’t fit for the Rangers. You’ve done nothing but apply an Xbox mindset to real life when it doesn’t work like that.

I’m done with you. Your text isn’t worth reading.

Likewise lol. Cheers

 

[AHLdepth]

Ok, so why exactly are the Rangers "fixing" a top-10 PP unit that CLEARLY isn't broken?

Just for context, Gallant refuses to sit Nemeth, when he is OBJECTIVELY dogshit by both the eye test and metrics because of loyalty and grit/size/experience. He's not going to take Strome off that unit and they've run 4 forwards and 1 d-man for years now.

While it's technically possible, I SEVERELY doubt that would happen if they got Miller.

That's what they say I suppose: "better players wouldn't be replacing worse players because the coach is just stuck in his ways".

I'm not saying the Rangers will be, or even should trade for Miller, just trying to point out that you telling people to get lost for the mere thought that Miller may provide a boost to that unbroken powerplay is a bit much

 

[Ita]

Last three seasons:

Miller: 161gp, 54g, 103a, 157p. 3 Short-handed points. 9 GWG.

Zibanejad: 154gp, 80g, 84a, 164p. 11 Short-handed points. 14 GWG.

Your boy Miller, despite playing 7 more games than Zib over the last three years, is WELL behind Zib in every category but one (assists). And "give the puck to Pettersson/Boeser/Horvat" isn't a strategy he can deploy on the Rangers. Also, 13 of Zib's GWG came last year and the year before (where the Rangers only had a total of 5 wins more than Vancouver).

Miller ain't close to Zibanejad.

It’s ironic that the stats you posted show that they are actually very close. I agree that just looking at the stats alone, Zibanejad is the better player, but you going hyperbolic with the ainec nonsense is not really helping your case here.

 

[Dijock94]

It’s ironic that the stats you posted show that they are actually very close. I agree that just looking at the stats alone, Zibanejad is the better player, but you going hyperbolic with the ainec nonsense is not really helping your case here.

26 goals over 2 seasons worth of games.

 

[Mal Reynolds]

As an outsider, I can't resist wading into the argument ~ I can somewhat buy the notion Miller wouldn't necessarily displace guys on NYR's top PP unit.

Kreider is probably the best net front guy in the league. 12 goals already this year (!) Now, lots of NHL guys have *some* ability to screen goalies and/or tip pucks so theoretically you could put someone else there instead, but he's like.... really good at it

Maybe you bump Strome, but in that case, why not just try one of the kids there instead?

I guess what I'm building up to (in a roundabout way, naturally) is I don't think the Rangers make much sense for Miller. They could use the help down the middle, sure, but likely can't keep him beyond his current contract

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Dicks are officially out and streams have been crossed.