Seravalli: Official JT Miller Trade Thread - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[John Mandalorian]

in what world is Compher/Jost + Barron/Helleson + 23 1st to which you've said the argument a 3rd round pick should be added since the 1st is in 23 is fair not similar to the entire same proposal minus the 3rd and instead add Foudy whom was drafted in the 3rd round 2 years ago by the Avs

Foudy has out-played his draft position. He's easily a first rounder.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Miller isn’t worth Schneider sorry brother

You’re right man he’s worth more

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Also, I wouldn’t count Nils out. Is Hughes a top pairing defenseman? Great offensively, terrible defensively

You haven’t watched Hughes this year CLEARLY. He’s elite offensively and been solid defensively. Is he amazing defensively? No but he’s certainly average. He’s not only a top pairing dman he’s a #1 defenseman.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Re-sign him.

Rather just re-sign Miller at that point. Not downgrading just for the 1st

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Everything is what it is at a given point in time. Another year, NY would not be under existing/pending cap hits and w/less guys with nmcs = unmoveable.

But this IS the reality of what it is. Strome is worth a late 1st or 2nd +. Even as a ufa. NY can't sign him for next season at any #. Extend or flip him. He is not a dump.



Appreciate you pointing out the parallel, but when I identified this, I did so to explain NY upcoming position is SO tight, this is pretty much only offer it can make.

I get VAN fans and others want all our nice elc blue chips, but as I've said, an isolated exception aside, we do NOT have surplus blue chips for trade, atm only what covers our internal needs.




Schneider is def not on the table.
Nils L is 99% not on the table, as we need his booming shot in the future. Jones who is otherwise comparable, is available.
Howev, adding Miller at all is not worth it given we can not keep going forward what we would be acquiring.

Also NY does not need to add. It is not automatic we are the eastern champs, but we have as good a shot as the others standing pat. Other than Colorado and Calgary, those are the only teams who caused trouble and IF one is the WC representative, that eliminates the other for starters.



Move on.
You are wrong about Nils, before it is all said and done, he will be a top pairing D, if not for NY then somewhere. Would rather get the benefit of his cheap yrs and keep or deal than deal him now for a return we can not keep due to cap.



Miller IS a scarce quality, esp retained. But he is NOT the only variable in the equation.
ultra rigidity of hard cap = cap space even more scarce than quality players



Nils is still adjusting to NA. He is fine, and getting better.




You may command the extortion of a high price for JTM just as others may for other players, but only with the cooperation and willingness of a trade partner who must satisfy their own equation to agree to a deal, WITH THE CURRENCY THEY CAN LIVE WITH. No one is capitulating to a seller's demand b'c the seller says so. If that is the case, live with what you have, and when the player becomes ufa at season's end, it is you who will have to oblige a buyer.
Although again, cap situation different for each club atm impacts all offers.

Gladly move on. Bern, there’s literally zero indication Nils turns into a top pairing dman. Brotha he’s not trending that way at all.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

So JT Miller isn’t in his prime? Kovalev was 29 when Rangers brought him back and Nedved was 27… JT is turning 29 in couple of months.

Not everyone peaks at the same age man. Some players prime years are 20-26 while others peak at 28-32

 

[Canuck Luck]

Foudy has out-played his draft position. He's easily a first rounder.

C’mon bro. Easily a 1st rounder? Name 10 guys he displaces in his draft class in a redraft if he’s easily a 1st rounder. I’d bet he has trouble cracking the top 40-45 let alone the top 30 in a redraft

 

[bernmeister]

Gladly move on. Bern, there’s literally zero indication Nils turns into a top pairing dman. Brotha he’s not trending that way at all.

he'll develop nicely into a top D over the next few years
would rather enjoy his cheap contract while that happens and see what our roster, post Trouba, is at that time.

 

[bernmeister]

That's fine. All I'm saying is that that type of prospect should be part of a Miller return. Doesn't have to be Braden Schneider himself.

if you get one or more suitors who feel they have a Schneider type to spare, knock yourself out.

It is arguably responsible to try and rejuvenate D now by moving a high end rental. But going for a high end prospect vs another level up is pushing chances you will succeed

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Claude Giroux is twice the player JT Miller is.

….wait you’re serious!? LMAOOOO

 

[Canadian Canuck]

if you get one or more suitors who feel they have a Schneider type to spare, knock yourself out.

It is arguably responsible to try and rejuvenate D now by moving a high end rental. But going for a high end prospect vs another level up is pushing chances you will succeed

JT Miller isn’t a rental though. That’s why he’ll fetch so much.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Would be happy to see him in Columbus, not sure if he wants to come though

What’s available for him? I assume Kent Johnson is off the table so we are we looking at?

 

[John Johnson]

Giroux is decently older than Miller plus his cap hit will be 4.1M AT LEAST. Thats if the Flyers retains 50% which would be less likely than the Canucks retaining 50%, making Miller an absurd 2.6M cap hit.

 

[Richard88]

2 1sts for a 33 yr old pending UFA is a bad return? Jost is still young, may not pan out to be a scoring top 6 guy but might be an effective 3rd liner with some scoring potential still. It's not the best nor worst deal for Philly to take in my opinion.

better than some Canuck fans wanting 3 1sts for JT Miller... I think the best move for the Canucks long term future is to trade 1 of Horvat or Miller, its not about the amount of assets you get back its the quality of them. We need RHD and C, also need to decide if they can get Boeser at a lower cap hit than his QO as he is not worth 7.5m right now

Philadelphia may be able to get a better return than 1st and Jost for sure, but for a team that's awful defensively there would certainly be some appeal in adding a young cost controlled C with elite defensive metrics. Yes, I said "elite" defensive metrics; that does not mean that I think that Jost is elite, nor that he is more than a 3rd or 4th liner. But his defensive metrics are elite, as shown in Pierce's post below. Easy to see why bad defensive teams like Philadelphia or Vancouver would be interested in Jost, if only as the 2nd or 3rd most valuable asset in a trade.

Jost is an interesting player. I get that we all hate him at this point... Well hate is a strong word but certainly are ready for him to have a fresh start, and I agree with that idea.


But he really has developed into a pretty phenomenal defensive forward. He's absolutely a positive asset as a 4th line defensive specialist.

He's top a top tier defensive forward while he's pretty meh offensively. I think he's going to be a guy that helps push a deadline deal across the finish line for us, if Sakic is willing to move him.

Like the idea of a 1st + Jost for Giroux, Jost could be the piece Philly zeroes in on as wanting back in a Giroux deal, because they're a pretty awful team defensively and Jost statistically would help the forwards in that regard quite a bit.

Or if the baseline of a trade for JT Miller is Barron/Helleson + 1st, I could see Jost being the add from our end to get that deal across the line.

 

[Richard88]

Just want to say thanks to everyone that's posted in these Miller threads. I've found it interesting to read and am grateful for the insights and patience shown by Canucks fans. It's not always fun to endure your team being terrible and on the receiving end of trade rumours for your best players (as AVS fans also know well), so thanks.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Change Lundqvist to Schneider or there is no discussion to be had. Especially retaining half salary

There’s no discussion to be had. Schneider isn’t being moved.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Canucks don't NEED the Rangers.....understand the difference

The Rangers don’t need JT Miller.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Most of JT'S offense comes from the PP. Who is JT replacing on PP1 ? 10-93-20-16? maybe but to me its a wash...JT is very good but we do not have any room for his stats.

He’s not removing any of them from PP1. The Rangers need someone who can drive play at 5v5. They’re better off going after Hertl, Pavelski or Kessel. They’ll come cheaper and probably be more effective.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

There’s no discussion to be had. Schneider isn’t being moved.

You have no idea if your GM will move Schneider do no need to talk in absolutes…it’s definitely not out of the realm of possibilities

 

[Canadian Canuck]

He’s not removing any of them from PP1. The Rangers need someone who can drive play at 5v5. They’re better off going after Hertl, Pavelski or Kessel. They’ll come cheaper and probably be more effective.

If you think Pavelski or Kessel are more effective than JT Miller at this stage in their games you’re off your rocker man

 

[BoHorvat 53]

Just want to say thanks to everyone that's posted in these Miller threads. I've found it interesting to read and am grateful for the insights and patience shown by Canucks fans. It's not always fun to endure your team being terrible and on the receiving end of trade rumours for your best players (as AVS fans also know well), so thanks.

Meh, there is light at the end of the tunnel knowing that we do have good young pieces and if Miller is dealt a prospect on Newhook’s caliber will very likely be featured in the return.

 

[Canuck86]

In what universe is Tyson Jost worth a 1st in 2022? Jost has been in the NHL for what, 5 or 6 years now? He's a bottom 6 forward, and not a very good one. And a late 2023 1st is most likely to be less interesting than a late 2022 1st for most teams unless they feel Colorado has a chance of plummeting and being a lottery team next season.

He is a recent 1st round pick, rushed into the NHL but still relatively young.

You tend to have blinders on when it comes to what I am trying to discuss...If Philadelphia got a 1st and a young player like Jost it could be a good start to a package or maybe even enough to get Giroux, have you seen who the Flyers GM is...

 

[Canuck86]

Claude Giroux is twice the player JT Miller is.

This is a silly comment, both players are very good. JT is 5 years younger and has another year on his contract at much less salary and does not have trade protection

 

[bernmeister]

JT Miller isn’t a rental though. That’s why he’ll fetch so much.

irrelevant
what he can actually bring back is established by several factors
one of which is supply and demand
so the first ?, before we consider who actually is available, is to look at who can potentially be made available.
He will NOT actually be made available, but theoretically since Rangers have Schneider he could be put on the table, even if only in theory not practice.
My point then is what clubs have a Schneider calibre guy. That is the first ?, then can they be considered available for trade, at all.
Rangers not making Schneider available Trouba's heir, etc etc.
Sens have Sanderson on the way, he is apparently not on the table even for a decent profit.

My pt remains: high quality D prospects can be found. Better still guys are likely not.
'nucks can look for such a guy, but are not likely to find, and still even less likely to find one available.

Instead of unrealistic Schneider, consider a Jones + type

 

[Peter Griffin]

He is a recent 1st round pick, rushed into the NHL but still relatively young.

That doesn’t make his value worth a 1st. He’d fetch a 3rd at best at this point and I’m sure the Flyers would prefer the pick.

You tend to have blinders on when it comes to what I am trying to discuss...If Philadelphia got a 1st and a young player like Jost it could be a good start to a package or maybe even enough to get Giroux, have you seen who the Flyers GM is...

So because the Flyers’ GM is terrible that offer doesn’t equate to being terrible? That’s some interesting mental gymnastics there.

A likely late 1st 2 drafts from now and a bottom 6 forward that doesn’t add anything unique isn’t a good offer for a team like Philadelphia to move one of their all-time greats who is still playing at a very high level.