Seravalli: Official JT Miller Trade Thread - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[Peter Griffin]

And a 2023 1st and Jost is a terrible return for Claude Giroux.

 

[UrbanImpact]

If the price to get Miller is Olausson + Barron + 2nd... Or we can go get Giroux from Philly for Jost and a conditional 1st, we will happily take Giroux every time.

Just because Giroux is a UFA doesn't mean we automatically will lose him this summer. He could be very interested in chasing cups with Colorado for the last few years of his career.

Giroux would be a fine addition but he wouldnt have the same impact as to what Miller can bring in for the AVS.

If the Avs are going to go In, they might as well go all in, and not mess around for the likes of Olausson, Barron etc.

The core is Mack, Landy, Makar, Ranta, Byram, Toews.

They will be fine for many years to come, they shouldnt miss out on making the best team possible and having deep runs because they were worried about prospects like Barron and Olausson or even Newhook.

Going for a 34 yr old like Giroux vs a 28 yr old Miller should be a no brainer for an All in team on which one they should pursuit

 

[JAK]

Going for a 34 yr old like Giroux vs a 28 yr old Miller should be a no brainer for an All in team on which one they should pursuit

But how many Giroux adjusted points does Miller have?

 

[10Ducky10]

Coops a pending UFA

Re-sign him.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Giroux would be a fine addition but he wouldnt have the same impact as to what Miller can bring in for the AVS.

If the Avs are going to go In, they might as well go all in, and not mess around for the likes of Olausson, Barron etc.

The core is Mack, Landy, Makar, Ranta, Byram, Toews.

They will be fine for many years to come, they shouldnt miss out on making the best team possible and having deep runs because they were worried about prospects like Barron and Olausson or even Newhook.

Going for a 34 yr old like Giroux vs a 28 yr old Miller should be a no brainer for an All in team on which one they should pursuit

No. Cost of acquisition is very much a consideration.

 

[John Mandalorian]

And a 2023 1st and Jost is a terrible return for Claude Giroux.

He has a big say in where he goes. Vancouver can trade Miller to any team. That's a huge difference. So Giroux has leverage that significantly influences what the Flyers can ask. Plus, he's 34.

 

[UrbanImpact]

No. Cost of acquisition is very much a consideration.

Maybe if it was for the same tier level of player being acquired which Miller vs Giroux is not imo and thats without even factoring in contract, AAV etc.

For a team like the AVS who has severly under performed and hasnt even made into the 2nd round of the playoffs, i dont think guys like Olausson, Newhoo, Barron should be a deal breaker for them in creating the best possible team is all im saying

 

[Overrateprospects]

They didn’t reaquire those guys in their prime though

So JT Miller isn’t in his prime? Kovalev was 29 when Rangers brought him back and Nedved was 27… JT is turning 29 in couple of months.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Maybe if it was for the same tier level of player being acquired which Miller vs Giroux is not imo and thats without even factoring in contract, AAV etc.

For a team like the AVS who has severly under performed and hasnt even made into the 2nd round of the playoffs, i dont think guys like Olausson, Newhoo, Barron should be a deal breaker for them in creating the best possible team is all im saying

In terms of where the Avs are at, Giroux is very much a comparable option. But then when you consider cost of acquisition, he looks even better.

 

[Peter Griffin]

He has a big say in where he goes. Vancouver can trade Miller to any team. That's a huge difference. So Giroux has leverage that significantly influences what the Flyers can ask. Plus, he's 34.

He can also not be traded at all. He may have no interest in going to Colorado when he’s lived and played on the East coast his entire life.

Another reason why JT Miller with his extra year and no trade protection is worth significantly more than the alternatives.

 

[John Mandalorian]

He can also not be traded at all. He may have no interest in going to Colorado when he’s lived and played on the East coast his entire life.

Another reason why JT Miller with his extra year and no trade protection is worth significantly more than the alternatives.

The same is true for Miller.

 

[Gruyeriev]

Giroux would be a fine addition but he wouldnt have the same impact as to what Miller can bring in for the AVS.

If the Avs are going to go In, they might as well go all in, and not mess around for the likes of Olausson, Barron etc.

The core is Mack, Landy, Makar, Ranta, Byram, Toews.

They will be fine for many years to come, they shouldnt miss out on making the best team possible and having deep runs because they were worried about prospects like Barron and Olausson or even Newhook.

Going for a 34 yr old like Giroux vs a 28 yr old Miller should be a no brainer for an All in team on which one they should pursuit

I have to assume you mean Rantanen not Sampo Ranta.

 

[Gruyeriev]

Giroux would be a fine addition but he wouldnt have the same impact as to what Miller can bring in for the AVS.

If the Avs are going to go In, they might as well go all in, and not mess around for the likes of Olausson, Barron etc.

The core is Mack, Landy, Makar, Ranta, Byram, Toews.

They will be fine for many years to come, they shouldnt miss out on making the best team possible and having deep runs because they were worried about prospects like Barron and Olausson or even Newhook.

Going for a 34 yr old like Giroux vs a 28 yr old Miller should be a no brainer for an All in team on which one they should pursuit

Delete

 

[Canuck Luck]

All Purpose JT Miller Trade Thread - Major Update per Seravalli+Dhaliwal

This assessment by @Richard88 is pretty much dead on. It's likely realistic in terms of how the FO views this.

There was a counter point regarding a future 3rd round pick to offset the lack of utility of the first being for next year, which is also a fair and realistic calculation.

I've proposed something similar in Compher + Barron + 23 1st + Foudy for Miller

 

[bernmeister]

you know what doesn't make sense - trading a good producing NHLer for lesser pieces that you have to sell off individually to try to extract the value. Trade Miller with 1.5 seasons left for Strome who's a UFA and then have to trade him to get the futures package you need. I can imagine every GM in the league holding your feet to the fire saying take my offer, you need to extract some value from Strome. I won't offer much, but a 2nd and a B prospect is better than nothing......

If secondary deals come about and value is there, sure go for it, but the idea you would make a trade and then need to move those pieces to get value seems like very poor asset management to me.

Everything is what it is at a given point in time. Another year, NY would not be under existing/pending cap hits and w/less guys with nmcs = unmoveable.

But this IS the reality of what it is. Strome is worth a late 1st or 2nd +. Even as a ufa. NY can't sign him for next season at any #. Extend or flip him. He is not a dump.

This is literally what Sakic did when he flipped Turris to Nashville for Girard, Kamenev and a 2nd. It would obviously take more maneuvering but it’s something a competent GM could take advantage of. .....

Appreciate you pointing out the parallel, but when I identified this, I did so to explain NY upcoming position is SO tight, this is pretty much only offer it can make.

I get VAN fans and others want all our nice elc blue chips, but as I've said, an isolated exception aside, we do NOT have surplus blue chips for trade, atm only what covers our internal needs.

So, who is interested?

Well, honestly, it will probably be a top 10 team that goes after him. The reason I make this point is the 1st round picks that being offered up.

Yes, still decent, but not top 10 picks for sure. As a matter of fact, when you go back and look through the years of late 1st's in the 22 to 32 range,

you see that those picks do not normally bring you top end prospects. To say it is very hit and miss, would be an understatement. So with that

being said, the 1st is not the major (biggest) part of any offer.

That leads me to what the major part is............a young roster player, or top prospect, should be on the table. I say this because of where Miller

sits in scoring, his versatility, the retention being requested, and that he is not an absolute rental, not to mention his low contract, which gives

any trading team a very low cap hit if used with retention.

Vancouver's needs.................simply a young RHD to go with Quinn Hughes, who is more defensive, and that can carry the heavy load. So, who

meets these requirements?

Schneider, Barron, who else?

Lesser's, that do not fit the requirements, but are good solid prospects

Lundqvist, Boqvist, Wilde, who else?

So who is out there, that fits the RHD requirement needed in Vancouver? Keep in mind about what I said about the 1st round pick, please!

I am asking, not telling, but that is what is going through my thought process.............I will be surprised if the trade is with anyone else.......

Top 13 teams by winning percentage today (Jan 21/2022). My gut says hi-litghed are the teams interested

Carolina .750
Colorado .750................has the assets, and would really put them over the top
Florida .738
Tampa .720
NYR .700................has the assets, and puts them in a serious position to make that run, against Tampa, Florida and Carolina
Toronto .689
Pitts .679................I do not really see it
Minni .671
STL .654
Boston 649................These guys always want to contend, and their core needs help to move up this list
Washington .646................The taste of a recent cup and Ovi's age, pushes them, especially with Miller at 50% retention
Nashville .631
Vegas .610

I don't see any others?

I still look at NYR's as the team that gets it done. For me, they have arrived, and they have players that are still young enough to compete, aka Panarin, Kreider, Zib, are all in their prime, at the same time, playing with Fox, Trouba and good goaltending. Miller puts them closer!

I am probably wrong!

Schneider is def not on the table.
Nils L is 99% not on the table, as we need his booming shot in the future. Jones who is otherwise comparable, is available.
Howev, adding Miller at all is not worth it given we can not keep going forward what we would be acquiring.

Also NY does not need to add. It is not automatic we are the eastern champs, but we have as good a shot as the others standing pat. Other than Colorado and Calgary, those are the only teams who caused trouble and IF one is the WC representative, that eliminates the other for starters.

There is zero chance Nils Lundqvist turns into a top pairing dman. It’s Schneider or we move on.

Move on.
You are wrong about Nils, before it is all said and done, he will be a top pairing D, if not for NY then somewhere. Would rather get the benefit of his cheap yrs and keep or deal than deal him now for a return we can not keep due to cap.

Miller is not a scarce commodity? (esp retained?)

Miller IS a scarce quality, esp retained. But he is NOT the only variable in the equation.
ultra rigidity of hard cap = cap space even more scarce than quality players

Also, I wouldn’t count Nils out. Is Hughes a top pairing defenseman? Great offensively, terrible defensively

Nils is still adjusting to NA. He is fine, and getting better.

Nucks hold all the cards here.

The price for Miller will be massive. If no contender is willing to pay it? Fine. We'll keep our best forward and move him for a 1st and prospect at next years deadline.

We don't HAVE to move him now. It's all about which team wants to go all in for a Cup this year, and it's going to cost you

You may command the extortion of a high price for JTM just as others may for other players, but only with the cooperation and willingness of a trade partner who must satisfy their own equation to agree to a deal, WITH THE CURRENCY THEY CAN LIVE WITH. No one is capitulating to a seller's demand b'c the seller says so. If that is the case, live with what you have, and when the player becomes ufa at season's end, it is you who will have to oblige a buyer.
Although again, cap situation different for each club atm impacts all offers.

 

[Peter Griffin]

The same is true for Miller.

What’s your point? Miller is tradeable to 31 teams should the Canucks decide to move him. Giroux isn’t an option for Colorado unless he wants to be moved there. That’s not helping your argument.

 

[UrbanImpact]

With Canucks rumored to be eating 50%, at 2.5mil per season this year and next and only 29 yrs old i wouldnt even doubt that non legit contender teams would be in the mix.

Young team thats about done rebuild and ready to compete should and could be interested as well for Miller.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

This has been discussed some on our boards, so there is some agreement. I think any mention has also had Newhook as a non-starter.

I am good with Baron over Newhook. Prefer Newhook ofc, but Baron is a good Consolation Prize.
Does Kaut still have potential, or complete bust?

Baron, 2023 1st, Jost, Kaut for Miller 1.25m retained.

 

[Canuck86]

And a 2023 1st and Jost is a terrible return for Claude Giroux.

2 1sts for a 33 yr old pending UFA is a bad return? Jost is still young, may not pan out to be a scoring top 6 guy but might be an effective 3rd liner with some scoring potential still. It's not the best nor worst deal for Philly to take in my opinion.

better than some Canuck fans wanting 3 1sts for JT Miller... I think the best move for the Canucks long term future is to trade 1 of Horvat or Miller, its not about the amount of assets you get back its the quality of them. We need RHD and C, also need to decide if they can get Boeser at a lower cap hit than his QO as he is not worth 7.5m right now

 

[Canuck86]

With Canucks rumored to be eating 50%, at 2.5mil per season this year and next and only 29 yrs old i wouldnt even doubt that non legit contender teams would be in the mix.

Young team thats about done rebuild and ready to compete should and could be interested as well for Miller.

What rumour has the Canucks retaining salary...Canucks NEED cap space, if we trade a player its to GAIN some cap space for next year. Miller is a good enough player you don't retain on this season, next TDL is a different story

 

[Peter Griffin]

2 1sts for a 33 yr old pending UFA is a bad return? Jost is still young, may not pan out to be a scoring top 6 guy but might be an effective 3rd liner with some scoring potential still. It's not the best nor worst deal for Philly to take in my opinion.

In what universe is Tyson Jost worth a 1st in 2022? Jost has been in the NHL for what, 5 or 6 years now? He's a bottom 6 forward, and not a very good one. And a late 2023 1st is most likely to be less interesting than a late 2022 1st for most teams unless they feel Colorado has a chance of plummeting and being a lottery team next season.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I've proposed something similar in Compher + Barron + 23 1st + Foudy for Miller

It’s not really similar.

 

[Seventy7]

If Miller is traded… he’ll be heading East

Boston, Pittsburg, TB, NYR the front runners

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Are you now the GM? I'm fairly sure that Vancouver management has an interest in moving JT. If they thought that highly of him, they would figure out a way to keep him around.
Pawn him off on any team but the Rangers.

Oh look another expert who doesn't know what research, context or even logic is........

 

[Mattycat]

Colorado has no 1st or 2nd rnd pick in 2022 look it up, done with the 2023 rumors lol .Either give something of value or move on!