Speculation: Official JT Miller Trade Thread II - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[PAZ]

Sakic is a smart man. He can see that the way " he operates" hasnt generated more than a 1st round exit. Why keep operating the same way.

Newhook is a good prospect but he isnt even someone I think the Canucks should be using Miller to get. He would be behind Horvat and Pettersson for us. We have bigger needs.

Sakic doesn't mortgage the future for short-term gain by overpaying, it's why the Avs are where they are at the moment. He also doesn't focus on one player, rather he identifies multiple players that can fill the hole and goes for the best value option.

Miller isn't that option. Plus a combination of Newhook + Giroux/Hertl/Stastny is better than Miller + Jost/Compher/etc. both short and long-term. It's fine if the Canucks have bigger needs, no point bringing up Newhook in these trade scenarios.

 

[jay from jersey]

Mark me down as a Canuck fan that understands that players like Newhook, Laf, etc are off the table and for good reason. I understand the Rags reluctance to trade Schneider as well, but he is in that tier of prospect that makes sense for Miller top 15-20 league wide prospect. I think the deal should include 2 other pieces (a 1st and a 50-75 ranked prospect would be my shoot for the stars ask), but some Canuck fans need to back off the Laf + Schneider + posts - that is only going to evoke a rage response and isn't realistic. If you can't come up with a reasonable comparable there is probably a reason (Coleman getting Foote and a 1st isn't a reasonable comparable - Foote was considered a reach at the end of the 1st round in his draft year - not exactly elite prospect level). Typically elite prospects are not traded unless there is other issues.

This...... logical, realistic post. Kudos

 

[Boondock]

This...... logical, realistic post. Kudos

...even a blind squirrel - because I can be a completely unrealistic ass at times too.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If Nate is out long term or gets injured again or Kadri gets suspended again which is highly likely, then Sakic would sacrifice Newhook to get a bonafied 1st line center as insurance and put the Avs over the top. Having Mac, Kadri and Miller down the middle is something that wont be matched by any other NHL team. So it will be either a Newhook or Byram returning to Vancouver.

The argument you make is flawed. If Nate is out longterm or Kadri gets suspended, the chances that the Avs win the cup are slim (especially with Nate injured). Why would they make the trade if the chances of win the cup are slim.

Don't get me wrong, I think JT Miller to the Avs makes some sense (I won't get into a discussion about the return as I'm not an Avs fan), just saying that your argument as to why to make the move is flawed.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

I haven't read the whole megathread, but I will say this: Canucks fans that think the Wild are going to trade Rossi/Boldy/Wallstedt for Miller are out of their minds. We need them on low cap hits to get through the buyouts. They weren't available for Eichel, they're not suddenly going to become available for JT Miller. I've seen so many Boldy/Rossi+ proposals. It's not happening.

 

[Mergatroidskittle]

I haven't read the whole megathread, but I will say this: Canucks fans that think the Wild are going to trade Rossi/Boldy/Wallstedt for Miller are out of their minds. We need them on low cap hits to get through the buyouts. They weren't available for Eichel, they're not suddenly going to become available for JT Miller. I've seen so many Boldy/Rossi+ proposals. It's not happening.

Feel free to point out Canucks fans proposals with him… I think your made that up

 

[Paddys Pub]

Feel free to point out Canucks fans proposals with him… I think your made that up

Miller for Wallstedt +!!!!!
Hahahahah

 

[Mergatroidskittle]

Miller for Wallstedt +!!!!!
Hahahahah

Obviously the position to trade Miller for! Not like we have anyone else right?

 

[Quinton Byfield]

Sakic doesn't mortgage the future for short-term gain by overpaying, it's why the Avs are where they are at the moment. He also doesn't focus on one player, rather he identifies multiple players that can fill the hole and goes for the best value option.

Miller isn't that option. Plus a combination of Newhook + Giroux/Hertl/Stastny is better than Miller + Jost/Compher/etc. both short and long-term. It's fine if the Canucks have bigger needs, no point bringing up Newhook in these trade scenarios.

Fair enough, and makes sense based on what we know of Sakic anyways.

It's a lot better than hearing the same derivative drivel you read from other people that amount to "hahaha Schneider is not going anywhere, get f***ed". People equate what they are willing to do or not do with statements as if they are the GM of a hockey team.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

The argument you make is flawed. If Nate is out longterm or Kadri gets suspended, the chances that the Avs win the cup are slim (especially with Nate injured). Why would they make the trade if the chances of win the cup are slim.

Don't get me wrong, I think JT Miller to the Avs makes some sense (I won't get into a discussion about the return as I'm not an Avs fan), just saying that your argument as to why to make the move is flawed.

Nate isn't going to be out during the playoffs, this will likely make Sakic more desperate for Miller to keep the team from bleeding losses.

 

[PAZ]

Nate isn't going to be out during the playoffs, this will likely make Sakic more desperate for Miller to keep the team from bleeding losses.

Why would that name him desperate?

The Avs can play .500 hockey the rest of the year and comfortably make the playoffs.

 

[strattonius]

Don't think the Wild will trade Rossi or Boldy either, but that doesn't mean that's not what it's going to require if they want Miller.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Nate isn't going to be out during the playoffs, this will likely make Sakic more desperate for Miller to keep the team from bleeding losses.

Yes. Trading for Miller makes sense to get them over the hump. Trading for Miller to plan for Nate being injured makes no sense.

 

[wonton15]

I haven't read the whole megathread, but I will say this: Canucks fans that think the Wild are going to trade Rossi/Boldy/Wallstedt for Miller are out of their minds. We need them on low cap hits to get through the buyouts. They weren't available for Eichel, they're not suddenly going to become available for JT Miller. I've seen so many Boldy/Rossi+ proposals. It's not happening.

I feel like you just wanted to come here to say this for the sake of saying it. A Minny proposal hasn’t been mentioned in a while and why would we ask for Wallstedt? Lol.

 

[zcaptain]

IF is the biggest word in any language.
Our window is just now starting to open, and IF we do not screw it up by dealing youth, and IF we do not get hit w/crazy injury, then we could be looking at upwards of 8 or so years, not 4, IF our older forwards can still compete.
We see w/LaF it is all about his skating which is continuing to improve. KK is the tortoise here but we see his whole game matures upward. At some pt he gets regular work w/line that has chemistry and he too will bust out. Schneider is real deal. Not concerned at this pt.


We are not worried at this pt, and don't have to be. Biggest worry is Drury's ego dealing youth now which will artificially close that window early, among other consequences.


You inserted alot of "IF's" into my comments, and I thought I would help you with yours. Because, you are not being honest with your comments. As well as a "could" You do not even know what Laffs and kakko's ceiling is, as they "May" have reached it.
You simply don't know. There is alot of supposition in your comments

supposition
/ˌsʌpəˈzɪʃn/
noun

• 1.a belief held without proof or certain knowledge; an assumption or hypothesis:

Please play fair! I like your team.

 

[John Johnson]

I'm definitely reading all the essays in this thread

 

[Gstank]

Here are my potential trade packages based on the teams mentioned

NYR
Schnieder 2023 1st Barron

Calgary
Valimaki, Zary 2022/2023 1st

Minnesota
Johansson 2022/2023 1st Lambos/Orourke/Hunt 2022/2023 2nd

Tampa (I don think they are mentioned but ill make one anyways)
Cernak, 2022/2023 1st, Thompson
or
Foote, Joseph, 2022/2023 1st

Boston
2023 1st, Lohrei, Vaakanainen, 2022/2023 2nd

ST Louis
2022 1st, Perunovich, 2023 1st 2022/2023 3rd

Colorado
Barron/Helleson, Steinburg/Foudy, Jost

 

[mdobbs]

I haven't read the whole megathread, but I will say this: Canucks fans that think the Wild are going to trade Rossi/Boldy/Wallstedt for Miller are out of their minds. We need them on low cap hits to get through the buyouts. They weren't available for Eichel, they're not suddenly going to become available for JT Miller. I've seen so many Boldy/Rossi+ proposals. It's not happening.

millers cap hit makes him arguably more valuable than eichel in the short term

 

[Love]

Pacioretty got Suzuki, Tatar, and a 2nd.

So by that logic, JT Miller as a better player should get at least that.

 

[Cogburn]

Include Laf as a "throw in", and if he breaks out, we can trade him back to you in another four years.

 

[Point21]

Here are my potential trade packages based on the teams mentioned

NYR
Schnieder 2023 1st Barron

Calgary
Valimaki, Zary 2022/2023 1st

Minnesota
Johansson 2022/2023 1st Lambos/Orourke/Hunt 2022/2023 2nd

Tampa (I don think they are mentioned but ill make one anyways)
Cernak, 2022/2023 1st, Thompson
or
Foote, Joseph, 2022/2023 1st

Boston
2023 1st, Lohrei, Vaakanainen, 2022/2023 2nd

ST Louis
2022 1st, Perunovich, 2023 1st 2022/2023 3rd

Colorado
Barron/Helleson, Steinburg/Foudy, Jost

0 chance Tampa moves Cernak, their right side is severely lacking and almost always hurt, so instead of trading away a top 4 RHD they would be looking to acquire one

 

[jackjohnson]

No doubt they're hoping they can upgrade their roster as needed without needing to move him, thus theoretically actually *extending* their window (so long as Newhook grows as expected)

Given there are other options out there, I can't say I blame them.

No argument from me that a three headed Mackinnon/Miller/Kadri monster down the middle wouldn't be a force to be reckoned with however

The problem is that you think keeping Newhook will extend their window but it wont since Kadri is UFA soon and will get payed somewhere else. Avs have been lucky underpaying Mackinnon and Devon Towes but that wont last long so I would say strike while the iron is hot. Winning a cup involves lots of luck, and lots of depth plus a correct timing when the team is firing on all cylinders. Those opportunity only happens only a few times for an organization and Avs have it this year. Dont blow those opportunities just for the sakw of thinking you can "extend" the window in a salary cap world. Couple of years down the line, you might end up having to trade Towes or Rantanen because you cant afford to sign your younger players like Newhook. Just Ask Tampa

 

[jackjohnson]

Fans are usually very short sighted and put too much emphasis on potentials. They often forget the end game is to win the cup.

I think its also more about greed, thinking they can sign everyone to low price contracts. Avs fans are definitely spoiled in that regard because of the underpayments to Towes, Mackinnon and having cheap ELC players perform or trading for players that were underrated. They forget Miller is a top line forward which requires a premium. Its not another Devon Towes trade. Its too bad for Avs though if they dont want to spend and make their team the favourite for the cup. I personally think Tampa, Carolina, Florida and Vegas do have the edge on Colorado. Vegas with Eichel will be a scary prospect in the playoffs if he ever goes back to his normal self.

 

[jackjohnson]

Sakic doesn't mortgage the future for short-term gain by overpaying, it's why the Avs are where they are at the moment. He also doesn't focus on one player, rather he identifies multiple players that can fill the hole and goes for the best value option.

Miller isn't that option. Plus a combination of Newhook + Giroux/Hertl/Stastny is better than Miller + Jost/Compher/etc. both short and long-term. It's fine if the Canucks have bigger needs, no point bringing up Newhook in these trade scenarios.

Giroux and Hertl are not cheap in any way, shape or form if you think Avs will just get them for a 1st round pick. Stastny is not even comparable to Miller so I dont even know why you compare him with those players. At the end of the day, you create a team to win the cup which is the end goal. What you want is a dynasty which is hard to do in the cap world. Tampa is the closest to one and they had to play tricks and find the loopholes to make Kucherov available just in time for the playoffs going at 100% while operating $16 million over the cap. Then they saw an exodus of players going to other teams to get payed. Its inevitable reality which will happen to Colorado sooner than you think. So beat to try and win the cup in that short window before it closes.

 

[jackjohnson]

Pacioretty got Suzuki, Tatar, and a 2nd.

So by that logic, JT Miller as a better player should get at least that.

Yep, that is true and Miller at this time has same or more value than Pacioretty when you factor in age, versatility and leadership quality. An equivalent of that off of Avs would be Newhook, Barron and a 2nd at the minimum