Speculation: Official JT Miller Trade Thread II - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[jackjohnson]

Tampa also won the cup by not trading their blue-chip prospects and young players. They traded their expendable prospects like Hajek, Howden, Foote, etc. in areas of strength rather than their blue-chip prospects like Point and Sergachev - both whom were instrumental in their cup runs. When they had to trade Drouin it wasn't for an aging star or a rental, it was for a blue-chip prospect.

Giroux/Hertl will cost something along the lines of for a 1st + Barron/Helleson, Newhook and Byram will never be in those discussions - again it's wishful thinking.

But I understand that asset management is a bit foreign since Vancouver keeps throwing away assets like candy.

How is this relevant now with a completely different management? So Vancouver will now manage their assets carefully which is why the price on Miller is high.

 

[jackjohnson]

I think the base of Barron+1st is fine as a base unit for Miller, I just think the struggle is finding (or even agreeing that we need to find) a third piece.

Barron + 1st is not nearly enough for a PPG 1st line center. Am sorry but I would be completely pissed if Miller was traded for a late 1st and an average prospect which does nothing for Canucks in present or in future. JR wants a high end prospect like Schneider.

 

[jackjohnson]

I purpose a three way

Canucks
Chychurn

Arizona
Picks and prospects

NYR
Miller

I actually would not mind that at all.

 

[David71]

I purpose a three way

Canucks
Chychurn

Arizona
Picks and prospects

NYR
Miller

should'nt van get some prospects or picks as well..

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Miller returns a Absolute top prospect/young roster player for Miller. All these deals involving a very late first and a non deal breaker prospect are not even close. There’s also needs to be a decent third piece.

Top prospect/Young player+ 1st round pick + Solid prospect/roster player/2nd.

This is the absolute minimum we accept in my opinion. Zero reason to move him otherwise he has two years left. Vancouver has all the leverage in the world here.

 

[mouz135]

As a fan from another team that is stuck in BC, Miller has been great for the Canucks. When he doesn't play, they struggle.
I'm not sure why they would trade him.

Vancouver isn’t contending and won’t be for a few years. At that point Miller will be declining. Add in the fact that he probably won’t even re-sign and so it makes sense to trade him at his highest value to help with the build towards contention

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Mark me down as a Canuck fan that understands that players like Newhook, Laf, etc are off the table and for good reason. I understand the Rags reluctance to trade Schneider as well, but he is in that tier of prospect that makes sense for Miller top 15-20 league wide prospect. I think the deal should include 2 other pieces (a 1st and a 50-75 ranked prospect would be my shoot for the stars ask), but some Canuck fans need to back off the Laf + Schneider + posts - that is only going to evoke a rage response and isn't realistic. If you can't come up with a reasonable comparable there is probably a reason (Coleman getting Foote and a 1st isn't a reasonable comparable - Foote was considered a reach at the end of the 1st round in his draft year - not exactly elite prospect level). Typically elite prospects are not traded unless there is other issues.

I don't know if I agree, I think there needs to be a major piece in this.

JT Miller is playing like a 90 point center that plays in all situations, has intangibles & is signed for another year at an absolute bargain (nvm potential retention).

The optics of Lafrienere being a 1st OVR is one thing that's hard to get past, but given the start to his career I don't think its entirely unreasonable ask.

I also don't think its clear trading Miller is unequivocally the right move, it might be but certainly not for the sake of dumping him and just taking what we can.

We need to get something concrete out of this, not just lottery tickets.

 

[BB88]

Vancouver isn’t contending and won’t be for a few years. At that point Miller will be declining. Add in the fact that he probably won’t even re-sign and so it makes sense to trade him at his highest value to help with the build towards contention

I don’t the chances for him re-signing now are too great.
He’s been in trade rumours constantly and he knows it and Vancouver hasn’t come out and say not true.

So why would he stay?

 

[BoHorvat 53]

Once again, I re-iterate, this is a player that is 15th in scoring over the span of the last 3 seasons, is excellent on special teams, can transition between all 3 forward positions seamlessly, is on a very good contract, and isn’t a rental. This isn’t NYR/TBL Miller. This is an all-star player.

 

[Overrateprospects]

Barron + 1st is not nearly enough for a PPG 1st line center. Am sorry but I would be completely pissed if Miller was traded for a late 1st and an average prospect which does nothing for Canucks in present or in future. JR wants a high end prospect like Schneider.

Agreed just like offering JT Miller for Schneider plus Kravstov, and 2 firsts doesn’t make sense for Rangers with them being a borderline playoff team. They will make the playoffs but no one will bet they get beyond the first. Doesn’t help adding a guy who did well in one playoff run vs 5 others. Great player but not sure why Canucks fans think he is the piece to put them over the top

 

[rangersfansince08]

Agreed just like offering JT Miller for Schneider plus Kravstov, and 2 firsts doesn’t make sense for Rangers with them being a borderline playoff team. They will make the playoffs but no one will bet they get beyond the first. Doesn’t help adding a guy who did well in one playoff run vs 5 others. Great player but not sure why Canucks fans think he is the piece to put them over the top

He isn't the piece to put us over the top. We're nowhere near close to a cup until some guys like Jones, Laf, Kakko, Lundkvist, Schneider, Barron, Chytil step up or someone in the next group of Othman, Culleye, Berard makes an impact. The Rangers aren't a JT Miller away from the cup or the ECF or even the second round imo.

 

[Richard88]

Barron + 1st is not nearly enough for a PPG 1st line center. Am sorry but I would be completely pissed if Miller was traded for a late 1st and an average prospect which does nothing for Canucks in present or in future. JR wants a high end prospect like Schneider.

Just out of curiosity, what is it that you think separates Schneider and Justin Barron as prospects quality wise?

 

[John Mandalorian]

Just out of curiosity, what is it that you think separates Schneider and Justin Barron as prospects quality wise?

Fair point. Barron was more highly ranked going into their draft year and was only drafted slightly below Schneider due to the missed time. And Barron has since justified his previous top 10/15 ranking.

So you make a fair point on value. However, a lot of Canucks fans want a player that brings physicality, which is what Schneider brings more. And truly, they’re most likely elevating Schneider because Rangers fans are saying Schneider is off limits.

 

[leetch99]

I just want Schneider.

So do the Rangers . Rangers don't need to win a Cup this season...they won't break the bank for Miller . Rangers have time on their side in all of these trades and also have the best valued chips...so if anything...they will be giving less in most deals and possibly eating salary in deals since they have 35 million extra to spend for this season. Teams/contenders will be making the Rangers great pitches just for usage of the cap space . There will be some 3 way deals.....wait for it . But forget about Schneider...he is not going anywhere for the next 10 years.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Rumor is they are now in contract negotiations with Ryan Strome. If that's the path they choose a Miller trade makes zero sense.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Rumor is they are now in contract negotiations with Ryan Strome. If that's the path they choose a Miller trade makes zero sense.

Yeah, something like long-term at 5.75 a season was the rumor.

 

[AHLdepth]

Barron + 1st is not nearly enough for a PPG 1st line center. Am sorry but I would be completely pissed if Miller was traded for a late 1st and an average prospect which does nothing for Canucks in present or in future. JR wants a high end prospect like Schneider.

Umm agreed? Did you read the part about that being a base? And about needing to find an acceptable third piece?

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

NYR do have several assets to “bundle” and upgrade at C and RW and maybe LD, but they aren’t blowing that wad on JT. Great player but the NYR aren’t a JT away from a cup IMO so this year they’re gonna go bargain bin shopping once this buyers market firms up. Out of contender teams, not sure who would pony up that price and be able to take full or retained cap back.

 

[AHLdepth]

doesn’t make sense for Rangers with them being a borderline playoff team. They will make the playoffs but no one will bet they get beyond the first.

It's tricky because fans sometimes get the idea that as good as they are now, next season will be even better and then the season after will be EVEN better!

But when you are winning games like you guys are now, sometimes you have to recognize that the gamble that the team will put it all together again next year, with no significant injuries, or key regressions to young players is actually a bigger gamble than going for it while you can. Yeah you want to find a balance, but your record right now is up there with the best, and Miller is the kind of additional piece you want to add to vault yourself up even higher in the contender list.

 

[Richard88]

Fair point. Barron was more highly ranked going into their draft year and was only drafted slightly below Schneider due to the missed time. And Barron has since justified his previous top 10/15 ranking.

So you make a fair point on value. However, a lot of Canucks fans want a player that brings physicality, which is what Schneider brings more. And truly, they’re most likely elevating Schneider because Rangers fans are saying Schneider is off limits.

I wasn't trying to make a point. I just wanted to understand why that poster would be "completely pissed" by a return featuring Barron instead of Schneider. Maybe I haven't been paying attention enough to Schneider but I didn't realise there was such a gulf in value between them.

 

[pld459666]

Been a fan of Millers since day one, and if he was a year younger with more term on his deal, I'd be more inclined to move Braden for him.

Lafreniere is a non starter. Value aside, NYR are not moving their recent 1OA player regardless of his slow start to his career.

That said, not making a move to acquire Miller is not an indictment on Miller the player or person.

Its an indictment on that fact that the Rangers are not "one player away" from contending.

The stars are not aligned for this type of acquisition.

Although, the potential of watching some of my Rangers fan brethren conduct the linguistic gymnastics in explaining how good Miller is would be entertaining.

There is quite the grouping that really do not like him.

 

[AHLdepth]

I wasn't trying to make a point. I just wanted to understand why that poster would be "completely pissed" by a return featuring Barron instead of Schneider. Maybe I haven't been paying attention enough to Schneider but I didn't realise there was such a gulf in value between them.

Personal opinion ahead.

There not that much different in my mind. Both skate very well, both are more defensively inclined while still being able to produce some level of points, and both can be physical.

Skating = about equal, slight edge Schneider maybe but it's close

Physicality = Schneider (not that Barron will get pushed around)

Offense = Barron (better Slapshot)

Schneider is probably the safer option, in that even if he doesn't hit his full potential you could still end up with a big, good skating 3rd pair guy. But if both were to hit there full potential, I'd actually prefer Barron personally.

 

[bernmeister]

Chytil + Schneider + 1st for Miller (50%)

Canucks fans probably want more, and Rangers fans won't feel good giving up Schneider, but trades that make you a little uncomfortable are often close in value.

No, younger/mo upside/cheaper Chytil is more desirable than and is immediately critically necessary than Strome, who we can't afford going forward in any event. Also, Schneider we only have one of, he is Trouba's eventual replacement, not available.

To Van;
Lindgren
Lafreniere
Barron
1st

To NY;
Miller
Motte

No like a gazillion times.

Can someone give an objective assessment of Chytil?

I concur w/ @AHLdepth quote below: "what very little I do know is that he skates very well, has pretty decent offensive instincts and shot, and at least knows where the defensive end of the rink is even if it's a work in progress."

His progress has been interrupted including by something to his hand. He has been usually reliable, w/occasional learning pains; mental miscues are there but not an unreasonable number of brain farts, and are usually decreased with regular work with consistent linemates. IMO one of Rangers problems past several years is WAY TOO MUCH juggling/experimenting of lines. He has shown sufficient flashes of being 2C level w/pinch hit at 1C upside.

Chytil is almost untouchable bc he provides supply/depth in a thin area, and does so for longer term under favorable cap team control than a Hertl or Miller who are super short term. Also, hopefully Drury & co will capitulate to the fact that numbers dont lie, and Strome at any # is unsustainable with highly undesired consequences. Given that, Chytil is not a luxury we can move.

Tampa also won the cup by not trading their blue-chip prospects and young players. They traded their expendable prospects like Hajek, Howden, Foote, etc. in areas of strength rather than their blue-chip prospects like Point and Sergachev - both whom were instrumental in their cup runs. When they had to trade Drouin it wasn't for an aging star or a rental, it was for a blue-chip prospect.

Giroux/Hertl will cost something along the lines of for a 1st + Barron/Helleson, Newhook and Byram will never be in those discussions - again it's wishful thinking.

But I understand that asset management is a bit foreign since Vancouver keeps throwing away assets like candy.

YES!!!

Truthfully I'm not the right guy to do that, but what very little I do know is that he skates very well, has pretty decent offensive instincts and shot, and at least knows where the defensive end of the rink is even if it's a work in progress.

What I do think is that if he were given a fresh start, without the expectation of a franchise that may or may not have reached on him in the first round, and given a definite, consistent role (likely on the wing) he could potentially flourish into a nice enough second line winger. As it stands I think he is victim to a numbers game both roster and cap wise. He could admittedly just end up a fourth line, not scoring enough, and out of the league guy, but that's part of the gamble that gets us a safer prospect in Schneider in my opinion.

Tell me where and how I'm wrong though anyone, I'm totally open to being out to lunch.

comments on Chytil are accurate, imo. He and Schneid unavailable. Cap does not make a deal doable.

I think the base of Barron+1st is fine as a base unit for Miller, I just think the struggle is finding (or even agreeing that we need to find) a third piece.

We need Barron as well. Could be as high as 3C right now and see upside for higher in the lineup down the road.

Miller returns a Absolute top prospect/young roster player for Miller. All these deals involving a very late first and a non deal breaker prospect are not even close. There’s also needs to be a decent third piece.

Top prospect/Young player+ 1st round pick + Solid prospect/roster player/2nd.

This is the absolute minimum we accept in my opinion. Zero reason to move him otherwise he has two years left. Vancouver has all the leverage in the world here.

God is the only absolute as to anything.
What everyone on VAN demanding sun and moon and stars and more needs to understand is, I get you want to sell high, top dollar, we all do, but certain if not most teams can not accommodate your demands, yet you ignore that reality and continue to press in that direction. NO. NYR in particular can only offer certain specific currency for Miller at half, and even that is not without undesirable repercussions. We are not offended if you keep JTM or go in another direction, pls let it go.

So do the Rangers . Rangers don't need to win a Cup this season...they won't break the bank for Miller . Rangers have time on their side in all of these trades and also have the best valued chips...so if anything...they will be giving less in most deals and possibly eating salary in deals since they have 35 million extra to spend for this season. Teams/contenders will be making the Rangers great pitches just for usage of the cap space . There will be some 3 way deals.....wait for it . But forget about Schneider...he is not going anywhere for the next 10 years.

Agree to extent if NY is smart, time is on its side. But summarizing here, NY can deal vets for pref cheaper vets, or vets for youth, or youth for youth. But we cannot deal youth for vets. Doing so flips the script and such cannibalizing only accelerates narrowing of our own window.

 

[bernmeister]

Been a fan of Millers since day one, and if he was a year younger with more term on his deal, I'd be more inclined to move Braden for him.

Lafreniere is a non starter. Value aside, NYR are not moving their recent 1OA player regardless of his slow start to his career.

That said, not making a move to acquire Miller is not an indictment on Miller the player or person.

Its an indictment on that fact that the Rangers are not "one player away" from contending.

The stars are not aligned for this type of acquisition.

Although, the potential of watching some of my Rangers fan brethren conduct the linguistic gymnastics in explaining how good Miller is would be entertaining.

There is quite the grouping that really do not like him.

General agree, just adding moving LaF could only be for overpayment in youth, ie extensive multiple 1sts and other favorable considerations in a deal. The only team I see that might go there is MON.

This ^ position is justified if you are looking closely and see the only signif flaw in LaF game is his skating, which has slowly been improving, the rest of his game coming along with it. We estimate with continued work by mid of next season, his skating will be sufficiently NHL level not to hold him back, and remember, this is a guy they said was best/highest ranked non-generational 1st selection since MacKinnon. So there is no scenario at which he goes cheap, or other than on NY terms, and NY will be happy to keep him if a suitor cannot go there.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Byram is not someone that Canucks will target. Just too much risk unfortunately.

Canucks would be foolish to gamble their biggest asset in 20 years for someone dealing with major concussion problems.

This can be a franchise altering trade and you dont waste those on big question marks no matter how much potential they had pre injury.

They would never give up Byram in a deal for Miller though and he absolutely would be targeted if he was available.