Speculation: Official JT Miller Trade Thread II - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[AHLdepth]

Barron + 1st is not nearly enough for a PPG 1st line center. Am sorry but I would be completely pissed if Miller was traded for a late 1st and an average prospect which does nothing for Canucks in present or in future. JR wants a high end prospect like Schneider.

We need Barron as well. Could be as high as 3C right now and see upside for higher in the lineup down the road.

Wait a minute I think I'm seeing something here.....when I say I believe Barron and a 1st is an acceptable base depending on the third piece, I am referring to Justin Barron not Morgan.

 

[Phrasing]

I don’t like any of these deals for Miller. I’m not the GM, but what’s the point of a low first rounder that maybe won’t be useful until three years from now? A first rounder and a prospect is a deal for rebuilds and this team isn’t at that stage. Miller needs to be traded for a young player (NHL ready prospect or a player in years 1-2 of the NHL) so that it fits with the age of the rest of the team. Otherwise I would much rather Canucks keep Miller and look for other opportunities.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

No, younger/mo upside/cheaper Chytil is more desirable than and is immediately critically necessary than Strome, who we can't afford going forward in any event.

You are going to be so mad when they re-sigbmn Strome. Already in contact negotiations.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Personal opinion ahead.

There not that much different in my mind. Both skate very well, both are more defensively inclined while still being able to produce some level of points, and both can be physical.

Skating = about equal, slight edge Schneider maybe but it's close

Physicality = Schneider (not that Barron will get pushed around)

Offense = Barron (better Slapshot)

Schneider is probably the safer option, in that even if he doesn't hit his full potential you could still end up with a big, good skating 3rd pair guy. But if both were to hit there full potential, I'd actually prefer Barron personally.

Barron is a discernibly better skater.

 

[zcaptain]

Just a question to Ranger fans.........

The Rangers are 6th in points and 8th in winning percentage in the entire league...............

What makes you think they are not a contender?

 

[Fitzy]

Just a question to Ranger fans.........

The rangers are 6th in points and 8th in winning percentage in the entire league...............

What makes you think they are not a contender?

A small but loud contingency in our fanbase thinks that our team getting outshot consistently matters more than wins and losses.

 

[Groo]

Just a question to Ranger fans.........

The Rangers are 6th in points and 8th in winning percentage in the entire league...............

What makes you think they are not a contender?

It's amusing to read that they don't have to win now. No team does but I'd bet they're working/playing hard to do so. No shortage of fans on here who seem to thin it much more important to build a all-starU-23 team than a true cup contender.

 

[Richard88]

Personal opinion ahead.

There not that much different in my mind. Both skate very well, both are more defensively inclined while still being able to produce some level of points, and both can be physical.

Skating = about equal, slight edge Schneider maybe but it's close

Physicality = Schneider (not that Barron will get pushed around)

Offense = Barron (better Slapshot)

Schneider is probably the safer option, in that even if he doesn't hit his full potential you could still end up with a big, good skating 3rd pair guy. But if both were to hit there full potential, I'd actually prefer Barron personally.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, much appreciated.

From my limited viewings I'd say that Barron has better skating. His stride and mobility for his size is quite rare, especially for a RHS Dman. That said, where he has had issues (based on watching him in several preseason games) is with gap control defensively as well as with tracking his man in the DZ. He's generally pretty solid at stepping up at the blueline though, which is undoubtedly a trait that adheres to Colorado's style of play which involves forwards backchecking and Dmen squeezing the defensive blueline.

Barron is no slouch physically, and got suspended last year in junior for some big, but imo legal, hits. Schneider definitely has a clear edge in physicality though, and is more polished defensively.

I suspect that Vancouver fans are naturally more enamoured by Schneider given his better overall defensive and physical game, which would dovetail more naturally with Quinn Hughes, but I suspect that they're undervaluing Barron in relation to Schneider here, in the same way Avs fans (including myself) are guilty of preferring Helleson over Barron simply because a stable defensive guy is more of a need due to who else we have on D already, rather than basing the preference on each prospects quality in a vacuum.

Whatever the case, I'm pretty sure Canucks fans would end up being happy with either one of these RHD's if they acquired them as part of the return for Miller.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Just a question to Ranger fans.........

The Rangers are 6th in points and 8th in winning percentage in the entire league...............

What makes you think they are not a contender?

They are one of the worst 5v5 teams in the NHL on par with Arizona and Buffalo. That's why they aren't a real contender.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I don't know if I agree, I think there needs to be a major piece in this.

JT Miller is playing like a 90 point center that plays in all situations, has intangibles & is signed for another year at an absolute bargain (nvm potential retention).

The optics of Lafrienere being a 1st OVR is one thing that's hard to get past, but given the start to his career I don't think its entirely unreasonable ask.

I also don't think its clear trading Miller is unequivocally the right move, it might be but certainly not for the sake of dumping him and just taking what we can.

We need to get something concrete out of this, not just lottery tickets.

Yah it is, think about it, if the Canucks drafted a player 1st OA two years ago and were a team like the Rangers no chance you'd be saying we should give up said player for a player like Miller.

 

[zcaptain]

They are one of the worst 5v5 teams in the NHL on par with Arizona and Buffalo. That's why they aren't a real contender.

Every team has its warts, but the Rangers are taking points away from some very good teams. I think you are not giving your team its due.

I certainly like watching them, and find them a strong team. I am not sure what you are expecting.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

I think the deal would be fair for both sides if it looked like this.

Laffy - kid is not going to meet potential by playing 3LW for the next 4 years. He would end up being 1LW or 2LW in Vancouver and PP1. His stock has dropped and most of his value is being a recent 1oa, his on ice play has little value.

Lundqvist- not the RHD Van wants, but still has solid top 4 potential. Fans idea of a guy whose best stat is hitting doesn't win games. OEL is solid defensively and physical when needed. He needs an Offensive partner and Lundqvist can be that. Myers has be sold as well and pretty good with Hughes.

2022 1st round pick- pick will be late, and a late 1st doesn't have the value many think it does. Trade downs are usually a 2nd and 3rd, depending on how late it is.

Rangers and Canucks fans won't be overly happy, but the trade works well for both sides.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

It's amusing to read that they don't have to win now. No team does but I'd bet they're working/playing hard to do so. No shortage of fans on here who seem to thin it much more important to build a all-starU-23 team than a true cup contender.

It's the way fans are. Just look at many Chicago and Penguins fans. Won several cups recently and are still pissed about what they gave up to win them. No fan base wants to get rid of picks and prospect to try and win ow. And if they do win now, are often quick to forget it after the dust settles and their prospect pool isn't amazing.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I think the deal would be fair for both sides if it looked like this.

Laffy - kid is not going to meet potential by playing 3LW for the next 4 years. He would end up being 1LW or 2LW in Vancouver and PP1. His stock has dropped and most of his value is being a recent 1oa, his on ice play has little value.

Lundqvist- not the RHD Van wants, but still has solid top 4 potential. Fans idea of a guy whose best stat is hitting doesn't win games. OEL is solid defensively and physical when needed. He needs an Offensive partner and Lundqvist can be that. Myers has be sold as well and pretty good with Hughes.

2022 1st round pick- pick will be late, and a late 1st doesn't have the value many think it does. Trade downs are usually a 2nd and 3rd, depending on how late it is.

Rangers and Canucks fans won't be overly happy, but the trade works well for both sides.

I think Canucks fans would be very happy, because Miller isn’t going to return that kind of package.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

It's the way fans are. Just look at many Chicago and Penguins fans. Won several cups recently and are still pissed about what they gave up to win them. No fan base wants to get rid of picks and prospect to try and win ow. And if they do win now, are often quick to forget it after the dust settles and their prospect pool isn't amazing.

I don't know that many Penguins fans are upset with what the team had to give up to win the Cups. It's what was given up afterwards that didn't lead to winning that some are upset about.

I suppose some wish we'd have given up Pouliot instead of Kapanen in order to get Kessel, but that's more of a 'hindsight' thing than anything.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

I don't know that many Penguins fans are upset with what the team had to give up to win the Cups. It's what was given up afterwards that didn't lead to winning that some are upset about.

Gotta keep trying to win when you have Sid and Gino still dominating. Any GM would be fired for not continuing to try.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I don't know that many Penguins fans are upset with what the team had to give up to win the Cups. It's what was given up afterwards that didn't lead to winning that some are upset about.

I suppose some wish we'd have given up Pouliot instead of Kapanen in order to get Kessel, but that's more of a 'hindsight' thing than anything.

There are some Pens fans that definitely seem more bitter about what happened after winning 2 cups, we have heard it since we hired JR, that what he did in Carolina and Pittsburgh after winning the cups was far more important than actually winning the cups.

 

[zcaptain]

They are one of the worst 5v5 teams in the NHL on par with Arizona and Buffalo. That's why they aren't a real contender.

They are 16th in the league in GF at even strength...........that is a far cry from what you are saying

I would also point out that they are ..........17th in GA at even strength, which isn't bad either

I think you are a little hard on your team there buddy. They are all a little different, and as long as they keep winning

That is all that matters................

 

[DanielBrassard]

They are 16th in the league in GF at even strength...........that is a far cry from what you are saying

I would also point out that they are ..........17th in GA at even strength, which isn't bad either

I think you are a little hard on your team there buddy. They are all a little different, and as long as they keep winning

That is all that matters................

They are also last in CF% and 3rd worst in xGF%. The only reason they are 17th is because of the goaltending. If Shesterkin falls off even a little bit they will tank unless they improve in front of him.

 

[nergish]

I think the deal would be fair for both sides if it looked like this.

Laffy - kid is not going to meet potential by playing 3LW for the next 4 years. He would end up being 1LW or 2LW in Vancouver and PP1. His stock has dropped and most of his value is being a recent 1oa, his on ice play has little value.

Lundqvist- not the RHD Van wants, but still has solid top 4 potential. Fans idea of a guy whose best stat is hitting doesn't win games. OEL is solid defensively and physical when needed. He needs an Offensive partner and Lundqvist can be that. Myers has be sold as well and pretty good with Hughes.

2022 1st round pick- pick will be late, and a late 1st doesn't have the value many think it does. Trade downs are usually a 2nd and 3rd, depending on how late it is.

Rangers and Canucks fans won't be overly happy, but the trade works well for both sides.

Canucks fans would be happy with this return.
I'm not completely sold on Laffy (or Lundkvist for that matter), but it's pretty rare to come away with two of a team's top prospects.

 

[dman34]

I don’t like any of these deals for Miller. I’m not the GM, but what’s the point of a low first rounder that maybe won’t be useful until three years from now? A first rounder and a prospect is a deal for rebuilds and this team isn’t at that stage. Miller needs to be traded for a young player (NHL ready prospect or a player in years 1-2 of the NHL) so that it fits with the age of the rest of the team. Otherwise I would much rather Canucks keep Miller and look for other opportunities.

I agree. I would want young players who are pretty much ready to step in over draft picks.

I would do Schneider and Nils for JT with some retention.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

I think Canucks fans would be very happy, because Miller isn’t going to return that kind of package.

When was the last time a 28 year old player, over a PPG with 1.5 years left at only 5.25m was available? If Eichel didn't have his injury, he would have returned a lot more. Miller is easier to fit under the cap, extremely productive, and does everything the team needs.

NYR fans are delusional if they think the team isn't a cup contender. They have an elite goaltender, Norris Defenseman, elite forwards. Miller puts them over the edge. This year and next will probably be their best years over the next 5.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

When was the last time a 28 year old player, over a PPG with 1.5 years left at only 5.25m was available? If Eichel didn't have his injury, he would have returned a lot more. Miller is easier to fit under the cap, extremely productive, and does everything the team needs.

NYR fans are delusional if they think the team isn't a cup contender. They have an elite goaltender, Norris Defenseman, elite forwards. Miller puts them over the edge. This year and next will probably be their best years over the next 5.

He’s got one year left on his contract, not five.

He’ll return more than the average pending UFA, but 1.5 years of Miller isn’t going to land Lafreniere, Lundqvist, and a 1st.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

New York not making a major add would not be a surprise. I don’t see this as a case of a fanbase generally saying no for the sake of it.

Carolina didn’t trade a 1st or equivalent prospect to add to the roster until the 2nd deadline as a playoff team (Skjei). Ditto Tampa (Coburn), Pittsburgh (Hossa), Boston after its mid 10s reset (Nash) and St. Louis (Bouwmeester). Toronto waited until mid-season year 3 (Muzzin).

Florida was slightly more aggressive, trading for Reinhart after its 1st playoff appearance. Colorado, though, is on the opposite end of the spectrum, having waited until after the 4th season to trade for Kuemper. Ditto Washington and Brouwer.

Vegas is the stand out team that was aggressive right away (Tatar) and has not stopped (Pacioretty, Stone, Eichel).

 

[BWJM]

Every fan has a right to be biased towards his their own teams prospects. What's sports without passion.

I think if a deal happens, the return will shock some people. Rutherford has been around since the dinosaurs, and would be trading Miller from a position of power.. he's not out looking for a rental like when he was in Pittsburgh. He can't screw this trade up. It's pretty wild one of his first move here could really make or break him.

Canucks are retooling not rebuilding. Miller won't be traded unless the pieces coming back can make an impact soon.

I also don't think you'll see any undersized players in the return.

I understand why Laffy isn't up for discussion by Rangers fans. He would probably explode if he came to Vancouver like Miller. Also our top 6 would be pretty damn young..

Laffy-Pettersson-Garland
Podz-Horvat-Boeser

Oldest player would be 26 year old Horvat