Speculation: Official JT Miller Trade Thread II - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[Nucker42]

I think the Canucks are only doing this deal if a team blows their socks off. Of course nyr fans don’t seem interested in trading for a player they previously had. Especially for what it will cost. However, he isn’t the player he was 5 years ago. He carries the Canucks.

He is surely a guy that could tip a team over the edge and he’s controlled on a reasonable contract for next year as well.

It’s an A prospect. B prospect and at
Least a 1st round pick. Rangers fans don’t like the idea of giving up Schneider but you’re not getting a top 10 scorer without a top prospect.

 

[Mal Reynolds]

The problem is that you think keeping Newhook will extend their window but it wont since Kadri is UFA soon and will get payed somewhere else. Avs have been lucky underpaying Mackinnon and Devon Towes but that wont last long so I would say strike while the iron is hot. Winning a cup involves lots of luck, and lots of depth plus a correct timing when the team is firing on all cylinders. Those opportunity only happens only a few times for an organization and Avs have it this year. Dont blow those opportunities just for the sakw of thinking you can "extend" the window in a salary cap world. Couple of years down the line, you might end up having to trade Towes or Rantanen because you cant afford to sign your younger players like Newhook. Just Ask Tampa

A quick rebuttal... the obvious counterpoint is that Newhook theoretically grows into that 2C, and is cheap (for the short term anyway). Most Cup caliber teams have ELC contributors.

In the interim, Colorado perhaps instead targets someone like Giroux or Copp, who almost certainly cost less, they still strengthen themselves up the middle (though I don't think Giroux actually plays much center anymore. I'm sure he *could* however)...

Point being Colorado doesn't necessarily need to splurge on a first line talent like Miller to push themselves over the edge. I'll again repeat how epic it would be if they did, but really they only need a capable middle six C (or perhaps a 2C if you're convinced Kadri will be naughty in the postseason yet again). They keep the promising young guy who then theoretically grows into an important piece down the road for future runs.

I would also add that I agree with the poster who pointed out they're sunk if Mackinnon goes down, just as most contenders would be in a pickle if they lost top talent. With the cap, you can't just go out and buy whatever because of what *might* happen. ie "Oh noes, we need Miller because our top line center might get hurt"....

As for moving Rantanen to retain Newhook on his second contract, come on. That would be like Tampa trading Kucherov so they could retain Cirelli. They'd find a way. Yes, maybe they move Toews, and they probably get a pretty good return. But now we're getting ahead of ourselves...

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Yep, that is true and Miller at this time has same or more value than Pacioretty when you factor in age, versatility and leadership quality. An equivalent of that off of Avs would be Newhook, Barron and a 2nd at the minimum

As has been pointed out before, Pacioretty came with a reasonable extension and Tatar was a low key cap dump.

Player to player, Miller has positional versatility and performance on his side. There's little difference in age, however. Miller is about to turn 29. Pacioretty was about to turn 30 at the time of the trade. Leadership quality doesn't make sense given that Pacioretty wore the 'C' in Montreal.

 

[jackjohnson]

A quick rebuttal... the obvious counterpoint is that Newhook theoretically grows into that 2C, and is cheap (for the short term anyway). Most Cup caliber teams have ELC contributors.

In the interim, Colorado perhaps instead targets someone like Giroux or Copp, who almost certainly cost less, they still strengthen themselves up the middle (though I don't think Giroux actually plays much center anymore. I'm sure he *could* however)...

Point being Colorado doesn't necessarily need to splurge on a first line talent like Miller to push themselves over the edge. I'll again repeat how epic it would be if they did, but really they only need a capable middle six C (or perhaps a 2C if you're convinced Kadri will be naughty in the postseason yet again). They keep the promising young guy who then theoretically grows into an important piece down the road for future runs.

I would also add that I agree with the poster who pointed out they're sunk if Mackinnon goes down, just as most contenders would be in a pickle if they lost top talent. With the cap, you can't just go out and buy whatever because of what *might* happen. ie "Oh noes, we need Miller because our top line center might get hurt"....

As for moving Rantanen to retain Newhook on his second contract, come on. That would be like Tampa trading Kucherov so they could retain Cirelli. They'd find a way. Yes, maybe they move Toews, and they probably get a pretty good return. But now we're getting ahead of ourselves...

I dont think you ever got my point but whatever. Getting Copp is not really the same thing as Miller though, so you would be adding secondary depth compared to a primary depth. The Avs would still be able to win playoff games if Mckinnon went down and you had Miller centering one one line and Kadri on another line, because both Kadri and Miller are top line centers in this league so Colorado would not be an automatic out versus having Copp trying to play as a top 1C. Also Giroux will not be cheap. I dont know where you guys got the idea that Hertl and Giroux will be cheap. For either Giroux or Hertl, you need to give uo the 1st round pick plus a high end prospect at a minimum, maybe even add a bit more if teams like FLA, Carolina and Tampa target them.

Again at the end of the day, you want to win the cup because thats the endgame. Whether Newhook becomes a Kadri, that is still up in the air, certainly not a guarantee.

 

[jackjohnson]

I think the Canucks are only doing this deal if a team blows their socks off. Of course nyr fans don’t seem interested in trading for a player they previously had. Especially for what it will cost. However, he isn’t the player he was 5 years ago. He carries the Canucks.

He is surely a guy that could tip a team over the edge and he’s controlled on a reasonable contract for next year as well.

It’s an A prospect. B prospect and at
Least a 1st round pick. Rangers fans don’t like the idea of giving up Schneider but you’re not getting a top 10 scorer without a top prospect.

Exactly, Allvin and JR wont trade the best player on the team for cookie crumbs, they are not stupid and can just trade Miller in the off season or at the trade deadline next year. Canucks are not in an urgent situation to trade Miller as they still have time and Luongo's 3 million dollar recapture penalty will be removed next season. If NYR and Colorado are being cheap, Canucks could always trade Miller to one of the Florida teams or Carolina with retention or some cap going Canucks way.

 

[Mal Reynolds]

I dont think you ever got my point but whatever. Getting Copp is not really the same thing as Miller though, so you would be adding secondary depth compared to a primary depth. The Avs would still be able to win playoff games if Mckinnon went down and you had Miller centering one one line and Kadri on another line, because both Kadri and Miller are top line centers in this league so Colorado would not be an automatic out versus having Copp trying to play as a top 1C. Also Giroux will not be cheap. I dont know where you guys got the idea that Hertl and Giroux will be cheap. For either Giroux or Hertl, you need to give uo the 1st round pick plus a high end prospect at a minimum, maybe even add a bit more if teams like FLA, Carolina and Tampa target them.

Again at the end of the day, you want to win the cup because thats the endgame. Whether Newhook becomes a Kadri, that is still up in the air, certainly not a guarantee.

I don't think you got my point either!

I absolutely get your whole blurb about going for it, "the goal is to win the Cup", running multiple top centers (is Kadri a top line center though? He's playing like one this year, but that's a statistical outlier)

It's a fair point. No argument there.

I never brought up Hertl. I did bring up Giroux. I said he would be cheapER as he's a rental and he's older (not a knock, he's still very much a top notch player). I would stand by that. Hell, that plays to whole "We only move Miller for a haul" narrative, which I don't necessarily disagree with

But really, for all my words and arguments, it boils down to believing that a guy like Newhook is important to Colorado's future, and that he's would ultimately be a non starter in any potential Miller trade talks. We'll see I guess but usually contending teams don't move out young contributing ELCs to "load up", they move lesser pieces

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I think the Canucks are only doing this deal if a team blows their socks off. Of course nyr fans don’t seem interested in trading for a player they previously had. Especially for what it will cost. However, he isn’t the player he was 5 years ago. He carries the Canucks.

He is surely a guy that could tip a team over the edge and he’s controlled on a reasonable contract for next year as well.

It’s an A prospect. B prospect and at
Least a 1st round pick. Rangers fans don’t like the idea of giving up Schneider but you’re not getting a top 10 scorer without a top prospect.

I will bet you my Oppenheimer park tent timeshare that you can’t get that much for Miller

 

[Gstank]

Makes sense

 

[Gstank]

Makes sense

I purpose a three way

Canucks
Chychurn

Arizona
Picks and prospects

NYR
Miller

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Yes. Trading for Miller makes sense to get them over the hump. Trading for Miller to plan for Nate being injured makes no sense.

Trading for Miller covers both. It also helps the team not lose a step while Nate is out.

 

[The Iron Goalie]

Chytil + Schneider + 1st for Miller (50%)

Canucks fans probably want more, and Rangers fans won't feel good giving up Schneider, but trades that make you a little uncomfortable are often close in value.

 

[Seventy7]

To Van;
Lindgren
Lafreniere
Barron
1st

To NY;
Miller
Motte

 

[JAK]

I purpose a three way

Canucks
Chychurn

Arizona
Picks and prospects

NYR
Miller

Canucks already have Hughes and OEL on the left side.

Just not going to work

 

[Seventy7]

…

 

[Gstank]

Canucks already have Hughes and OEL on the left side.

Just not going to work

You know just because they are left handed doesnt mean they have to stay on the left side and its still works for icetime

Hughes PP1/PK2
OEL PP2/PK2
Chychurn PK1 /PP2

OZ Starts split between
Hughes Chychurn

DZ starts split between
OEL Chychurn

 

[Mattycat]

trade must involve rhd no if or butts.

 

[AHLdepth]

Chytil + Schneider + 1st for Miller (50%)

Canucks fans probably want more, and Rangers fans won't feel good giving up Schneider, but trades that make you a little uncomfortable are often close in value.

Took the proposal right out of my mouth. I think this is the proposal some VAN fans wouldn't possibly accept less, and some NYR fans wouldn't possibly offer more.

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

trade must involve rhd no if or butts.

They lack in other areas too.

If they can get more value in a C in return, you still take that over a lesser RHD.

 

[lawrence]

I purpose a three way

Canucks
Chychurn

JR looking for cap room cushion. I don't think any high contract players coming back at least until next year or something. Looks like we trading Miller and potentially Boeser and Hamonic for draft picks and prospects.

sounds like a frickin rebuild if you ask me. Stealth tank style.

 

[Ita]

Took the proposal right out of my mouth. I think this is the proposal some VAN fans wouldn't possibly accept less, and some NYR fans wouldn't possibly offer more.

Can someone give an objective assessment of Chytil?

 

[Bobby Digital]

Can someone give an objective assessment of Chytil?

Chytil sucks. Read the player discussion on him on the Rangers board.

Schineder + late 1st + bust center is not going to get Miller. There will be better offers.

 

[PAZ]

Giroux and Hertl are not cheap in any way, shape or form if you think Avs will just get them for a 1st round pick. Stastny is not even comparable to Miller so I dont even know why you compare him with those players. At the end of the day, you create a team to win the cup which is the end goal. What you want is a dynasty which is hard to do in the cap world. Tampa is the closest to one and they had to play tricks and find the loopholes to make Kucherov available just in time for the playoffs going at 100% while operating $16 million over the cap. Then they saw an exodus of players going to other teams to get payed. Its inevitable reality which will happen to Colorado sooner than you think. So beat to try and win the cup in that short window before it closes.

Tampa also won the cup by not trading their blue-chip prospects and young players. They traded their expendable prospects like Hajek, Howden, Foote, etc. in areas of strength rather than their blue-chip prospects like Point and Sergachev - both whom were instrumental in their cup runs. When they had to trade Drouin it wasn't for an aging star or a rental, it was for a blue-chip prospect.

Giroux/Hertl will cost something along the lines of for a 1st + Barron/Helleson, Newhook and Byram will never be in those discussions - again it's wishful thinking.

But I understand that asset management is a bit foreign since Vancouver keeps throwing away assets like candy.

 

[AHLdepth]

Can someone give an objective assessment of Chytil?

Truthfully I'm not the right guy to do that, but what very little I do know is that he skates very well, has pretty decent offensive instincts and shot, and at least knows where the defensive end of the rink is even if it's a work in progress.

What I do think is that if he were given a fresh start, without the expectation of a franchise that may or may not have reached on him in the first round, and given a definite, consistent role (likely on the wing) he could potentially flourish into a nice enough second line winger. As it stands I think he is victim to a numbers game both roster and cap wise. He could admittedly just end up a fourth line, not scoring enough, and out of the league guy, but that's part of the gamble that gets us a safer prospect in Schneider in my opinion.

Tell me where and how I'm wrong though anyone, I'm totally open to being out to lunch.

 

[Nickel eye Heel hers]

As a fan from another team that is stuck in BC, Miller has been great for the Canucks. When he doesn't play, they struggle.
I'm not sure why they would trade him.

 

[AHLdepth]

Tampa also won the cup by not trading their blue-chip prospects and young players. They traded their expendable prospects like Hajek, Howden, Foote, etc. in areas of strength rather than their blue-chip prospects like Point and Sergachev - both whom were instrumental in their cup runs. When they had to trade Drouin it wasn't for an aging star or a rental, it was for a blue-chip prospect.

Giroux/Hertl will cost something along the lines of for a 1st + Barron/Helleson, Newhook and Byram will never be in those discussions - again it's wishful thinking.

But I understand that asset management is a bit foreign since Vancouver keeps throwing away assets like candy.

I think the base of Barron+1st is fine as a base unit for Miller, I just think the struggle is finding (or even agreeing that we need to find) a third piece.