Speculation: Official JT Miller Trade Thread II - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[Bettman Returnz]

Is everyone just assuming his next contract is going to be way too much? Trying to gauge what the hesitancy is here. Are rangers hell-bent on resigning strome, if so what does he sign for?

 

[JohnHodgson]

And we're back to believing Kakko and Lafreniere are on the table for Miller. It's like a rinse and repeat process for some. 1.5 years of JT Miller isn't netting a Lafreniere or Kakko. You trade players like that for guys like Eichel or Draisaitl type players that wind up demanding out. Not saying Leon will, just making a point. Eichel got Krebs back as the best prospect. Good prospect, hardly an A+ caliber one. Sure, Eichel was waiting on surgery, but that's a 23-year-old C with the term.

Why do people keep bringing up Eichel?

Eichel's situation is a once in generation type of situation. Stop using that as some sort of baseline.

If Eichel was healthy, his return would have doubled and more.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

Yeah, because Miller is the guy that's going to magically turn the Rangers into a better 5v5 team, and also, there will apparently never be any other players that become available, I guess. Miller isn't the difference between the Rangers beating those team and there will be plenty of other players that come along and be made available.

Yeah, there will probably be a ton of top 6 centers available in free agency that won't cost 5m a season, or young cost-controlled ones that won't require a blue-chip as a return in trade.

Here's some:

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Yeah, there will probably be a ton of top 6 centers available in free agency that won't cost 5m a season, or young cost-controlled ones that won't require a blue-chip as a return in trade.

Here's some:

Who said anything about free agency? Players become available via trade all the time. I’d rather spend my assets on something better.

 

[JohnHodgson]

2 of those for JTM is extremely fair offer
even if it s a buzz-kill to Canucks fans' big dreams of a more-than-Eichel return

but i am NYR fan who both
- doesn't see a reunion w JTM actually happening
- loves our prospects, and is fine with patience for them finding their way to complementing NYR's solid core

You're really out to lunch if you think that's a fair offer. Only the 1st and Lundqvist are attractive assets - Krav and Chytil are worth a 2nd round pick each at most. Two of those absolutely does not get you JT Miller.

So Blake Coleman/Anthony Mantha is going to get more than JT Miller? Sure thing bud.

Again, Eichel is a once in generation type of situation... why do people keep bringing as a baseline? That makes no sense.

 

[jay from jersey]

Who said anything about free agency? Players become available via trade all the time. I’d rather spend my assets on something better.

This. Both PLD and Bennett were moved last year after wanting a change of scenery. 2 guys that NYR fans were clamoring on Gorton to try and get....
More players in their prime will likely ask out if they don’t want to go thru a long rebuild situation....
Hopefully Larkin doesn’t want to want 3-4 years to play in a playoff game...
There are certainly a few other players to keep an eye on.....
UFA is also a factor should they chose to go that way

 

[JohnHodgson]

Who says no? NHL executives evaluate your trade proposals for Chychrun, Giroux, Hertl and others



So, one NHL executive says this is a good deal for both, one says it's fair and the Rangers might say no.

JT Miller is not getting you Lafreniere or Kakko. JT Miller is not getting you Schneider. JT Miller will not get you K'Andre Miller. That package right there is pretty damn good if you ask me. Kravtsov may not have amazing value, but is a very good buy low candidate. Lundkvist is one of the best D prospects around. Rangers 1st is likely in the 20ish range.

Who are the two executives? Jim Benning and John Weisbrod?

The Canucks are not going to retain 50% and settle for that mid package. We would just keep him and try to convince him to re-sign in the offseason instead. Or trade him with an extension for a similar package without retention.

Rangers are going to offer a mid tier package with max retention? Lmao

 

[TheBloodyNine]

This. Both PLD and Bennett were moved last year after wanting a change of scenery. 2 guys that NYR fans were clamoring on Gorton to try and get....
Move players in their prime will likely ask out if they don’t want to go thru a long rebuild situation....
Hopefully Larkin doesn’t want to want 3-4 years to play in a playoff game...
There are certainly a few other players to keep an eye on.....
UFA is also a factor should they chose to go that way

100%. It is certainly not "JT Miller or the Rangers rebuild has failed" as options here. It's either Miller at the price they are comfortable with, or move on and be patient.

 

[AlaBlueShirt]

You're really out to lunch if you think that's a fair offer. Only the 1st and Lundqvist are attractive assets - Krav and Chytil are worth a 2nd round pick each at most. Two of those absolutely does not get you JT Miller.

So Blake Coleman/Anthony Mantha is going to get more than JT Miller? Sure thing bud.

Again, Eichel is a once in generation type of situation... why do people keep bringing as a baseline? That makes no sense.

So you decide what trades people can/can’t use to back up their argument? Got it.

 

[JohnHodgson]

So you decide what trades people can/can’t use to back up their argument? Got it.

Does JT Miller need to undergo a potentially career changing/ending neck surgery that's never been performed before?

Does JT Miller have a 10M cap hit?

Has JT Miller not played in a year and a half?

You can bring up the Eichel trade but it's not relevant in any capacity. You are bringing a trade scenario that happens once every 10-15 years and using it as some sort of baseline for comparison.

You're comparing Apples to Peking Duck.

 

[Cogburn]

So you decide what trades people can/can’t use to back up their argument? Got it.

Well, you are keying in on one specific trade with zero relevant similarities to the situation at hand.

I posted this is another thread:

Mark Stone wasn't going to resign his expiring contract, I suspect with no proof or evidence he may have asked out (given the teams recent performance and politics), and has missed a lot of time due to injury, both leading up and since the trade. Vegas also had to cast off players later to accommodate Stone's new contract that off season. Brannstrom was one of the top prospects leaguewide, in all positions. Brannstrom wasn't some B tier prospect. There was a lot of buzz around him. Most feedback at the time was positive, even from Leafs fans. Here:
Confirmed Trade: - [VGK/OTT] Mark Stone, Tobias Lindberg for Erik Brannstrom, Oscar Lindberg, and 2020 2nd round pick
Muzzin got Grundstrom, Durzi and a 1st. Miller is a much better player then Muzzin. A 2/3 lefty defensive/stay at home D man is not worth the same as a high scoring, powerforward center. There is just no way to make that equivalent.
Conversely, are we saying Miller is worth only slightly more than Goodrow (a first and a B prospect in Greco)?
Or Coleman (Foote and a 1st)?
Or Dvorak (1st and 2nd)?
Or Kuemper (Timmins and a 1st)?
Or an unsigned, disgruntled Reinhart (1st and Levi)?
Or Ristolainen (1st and Hagg)?
Or Mantha (1st, 2nd, Vrana and Panik)?
Or Palmeri and an over the hill Zajac (1st. 2nd, Greer and Jobst)?
Or Kapanen (1st, Rodriguez, Hallinder and Warofsky)?
Or Pageau (1st, 2nd and 3rd)?
Or Zucker (Addison, a 1st and Galchenyuk)?
Or Hayes (Lemeiux and a 1st)?
Or Montour (Guhle and a 1st)?
Or Duchene (two 1sts, Davidsson and Abramov)?
Or O'Reilly (Thomson, 1st and a 2nd and cap dumps)?
Or Tatar (1st, 2nd and 3rd)?
Or Statsny (1st, 4th and Foley)?
Or Hartman (1st, 4th and Edjsell)?
Or an older Nash scoring way below Miller's rate (Belesky, Spooner, Lindgren, a 1st and a 7th)?
A disgruntled Kane got a prospect, a first and a 4th.
Pacioretty, who was older and was not performing as Miller has, got Suzuki, Tatar (1st, 2nd and a 3rd 5 months earlier) and a 2nd too. Ask any Montreal fan what kind of pick Suzuki is worth.
Miller, with another year and half retained, beats the pants off nearly everyone there (Duchene, O'Reilly and Pacioretty not withstanding), some of whom got your asking price of a first and 2 B prospects, or equivalent. Some got better returns. Duchene and O'Reilly both demanded trades out. Patches got more of a mixed return, which I personally am not against.
A broken Eichel demanding a trade to a team that recognizes his doctors opinion for the type of specialty surgery needed, at 4 times the cap hit, already on the LTIR, got Tuch, Krebs a 1st and 2nd. We haven't been offered a player of Krebs calibre with a first without getting push back, let alone Tuch and a 2nd.
Hell Hall was 183 points in 181 in the three years leading up to his trade and Miller has 164 points in 168 games, would have a similar cap hit, similar age and was signed a year less. Bahl, Merkley, Schnarr and two conditional firsts was his return. Granted Hall had a league MVP award, but no one is saying this is the expected return either.
Karlsson, who demanded a trade and Ottawa limited themselves in terms of suitors, got 4 conditional picks (as many as 3 1sts), Norris, Balcers, Demelo and Tierney.
Seth Jones got two 1sts (one was 12th, the other in hindsight might be a lottery pick), Boqvist and a swap of 32 and 44.
No Canucks fans are asking for these last three returns. To be clear. This is context for how trades for players coming from selling teams have gone as a comparison.

That was before Toffoli too.

Does the one off, Lindros to Philadelphia style Eichel trade trump every think on this list?

 

[cwede]

You're really out to lunch if you think that's a fair offer. Only the 1st and Lundqvist are attractive assets - Krav and Chytil are worth a 2nd round pick each at most. Two of those absolutely does not get you JT Miller.
So Blake Coleman/Anthony Mantha is going to get more than JT Miller? Sure thing bud.
Again, Eichel is a once in generation type of situation... why do people keep bringing as a baseline? That makes no sense.

well then Miller should end up elsewhere

Coleman was a unicorn type of situation... why do people keep bringing as a baseline? That makes no sense.
Tampa was multiple seasons into an extended run as a Cup Contender and needed to get over the hump.
same with Caps and Mantha - desperate for one more shot at another Cup

I love NYR, but they are not top 5 Cup contenders yet, not better than TB, Avs, Canes or Fla, or likely even Flames, Wild, VGK, or Leafs

these young guys, who HFB posters keep wanting to suck away from NYR by the handful (hmm, why is that, if they have such limited promise),
they are the guys that will flesh out the Cup-contending core, if that time comes

 

[lakeshirts37]

Who are the two executives? Jim Benning and John Weisbrod?

The Canucks are not going to retain 50% and settle for that mid package. We would just keep him and try to convince him to re-sign in the offseason instead. Or trade him with an extension for a similar package without retention.

Rangers are going to offer a mid tier package with max retention? Lmao

Lol I can’t wait for this to be over. The return is almost always less than what everyone on here thinks. Canucks are not getting three 1st round assets for 1.5 years of JT Miller, and yes I know he is a different player now.

 

[Cogburn]

Lol I can’t wait for this to be over. The return is almost always less than what everyone on here thinks. Canucks are not getting three 1st round assets for 1.5 years of JT Miller, and yes I know he is a different player now.

Two of the "1st round assets" being offered were drafted 4 years ago.

 

[jay from jersey]

I just can’t see Rangers giving up on Kakko or Laf yet

They won’t...

 

[Taluss]

Just got this notification. Idk who this is (Josh Wegman) so take of it who you will:

Report: Rangers among teams to inquire about J.T. Miller

mentions: “New York's likeliest trade chip for an impact player is defenseman Nils Lundkvist, sources told Staple. The 2018 first-rounder has been surpassed by Braden Schneider on the right side of the team's blue-line depth chart.”

 

[jay from jersey]

well then Miller should end up elsewhere

Coleman was a unicorn type of situation... why do people keep bringing as a baseline? That makes no sense.
Tampa was multiple seasons into an extended run as a Cup Contender and needed to get over the hump.
same with Caps and Mantha - desperate for one more shot at another Cup

I love NYR, but they are not top 5 Cup contenders yet, not better than TB, Avs, Canes or Fla, or likely even Flames, Wild, VGK, or Leafs

these young guys, who HFB posters keep wanting to suck away from NYR by the handful (hmm, why is that, if they have such limited promise),
they are the guys that will flesh out the Cup-contending core, if that time comes

he conveniently Left off Buchnevich/PLD/Bennett from that list....
The market dictates.....
Giroux
Hertl
Miller
Copp
Are all likely to be available and more....
He’s not the only center available at the TDL.
The rangers aren’t going to take away pieces playing from their current squad to add miller for 2 playoffs runs. That’s not how TDL acquisitions work..
If they get him, it will be a futures based deal.
NYR isn’t trading LaF/kakko/Schneider/KAM.
NYR fans are pretty astute when it comes to following the org closely

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Who are the two executives? Jim Benning and John Weisbrod?

The Canucks are not going to retain 50% and settle for that mid package. We would just keep him and try to convince him to re-sign in the offseason instead. Or trade him with an extension for a similar package without retention.

Rangers are going to offer a mid tier package with max retention? Lmao

Luckily the Rangers dont need retention and therefore it adds zero value for them. Opinions from 2 nhl execs carry more weight than any HF poster.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Does JT Miller need to undergo a potentially career changing/ending neck surgery that's never been performed before?

Does JT Miller have a 10M cap hit?

Has JT Miller not played in a year and a half?

You can bring up the Eichel trade but it's not relevant in any capacity. You are bringing a trade scenario that happens once every 10-15 years and using it as some sort of baseline for comparison.

You're comparing Apples to Peking Duck.

Is JT Miller a franchise center?

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Is JT Miller a franchise center?

He's produced like one. And he also plays both wings.

And he also costs half what a typical franchise centre costs.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

At this point, knowing the return on the Toffoli deal and that it's now taken an option off the table, the price has to have gone up.

Someone will pay dearly for his services. It doesn't have to be the Rangers.

 

[bernmeister]

2 of those for JTM is extremely fair offer
even if it s a buzz-kill to Canucks fans' big dreams of a more-than-Eichel return

but i am NYR fan who both
- doesn't see a reunion w JTM actually happening
- loves our prospects, and is fine with patience for them finding their way to complementing NYR's solid core

Would not go much beyond Jones + a 1st and even still, we then have no cap next season and unable to deal anyone for cap, we'd have to move JTM as an expiring after this yr.
but I'm with ya incl on the bold

Is everyone just assuming his next contract is going to be way too much? Trying to gauge what the hesitancy is here. Are rangers hell-bent on resigning strome, if so what does he sign for?

It is mathematically impossible to sign strome [unless he takes a McKegg type 1m ish for 1 season, which is not gonna happen] as we need ALL of his salary, w'o any player and that salary substituted, + some others, to go along w/recovery of 1.5 cap hit on Hank buyout, just to = 11+m that = Zib+Fox increases. Signing Strome would trigger a forced sale of LaF/Kakko, forced not on NYR terms, and would be stupid beyond stupid.
SOMEONE PLS MAKE SURE DRURY AND ESPECIALLY DOLAN SEES THIS.

That said, Strome as a non factor going forward. We cannot afford JTM due to vicegrip of cap until Trouba exits. Miller would be a 1 yr rental and then have to be flipped as an expiring rental. If anyone doubts that, just do a deep dive on the salary. I will be proven correct.

Just got this notification. Idk who this is (Josh Wegman) so take of it who you will:

Report: Rangers among teams to inquire about J.T. Miller

mentions: “New York's likeliest trade chip for an impact player is defenseman Nils Lundkvist, sources told Staple. The 2018 first-rounder has been surpassed by Braden Schneider on the right side of the team's blue-line depth chart.”

Correct as to Schneider elevating, but moving Nils L ahead of Jones would be a mistake. Nils has the best D shot on the club and the 2 are otherwise comparable. Once trouba does exit, then natural advance is Schneid to 2RD, Nils to 3RD.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Is everyone just assuming his next contract is going to be way too much? Trying to gauge what the hesitancy is here. Are rangers hell-bent on resigning strome, if so what does he sign for?

Pride. He was their draft pick.

 

[Taluss]

At this point, knowing the return on the Toffoli deal and that it's now taken an option off the table, the price has to have gone up.

Someone will pay dearly for his services. It doesn't have to be the Rangers.

Theoretically the price went up but really his return only does if other teams choose to up their offer.

If Nucks overprice him from the market then someone may not pay up for him.

 

[Taluss]

Questions to non Nucks fans. Let’s say the Rangers have the best offer of:

Lundkvist, Krav, 1st

How many of you other fans out there would top it with your team?



Now let’s say the offer is;

Schneider, 1st, Krav.

Same question, do you fans top it?