Official 9th Baseball ATD Discussion Thread Part II

[darko]

If players from other league are so highly considered, why does Oh drop so much every year.

Because Negro Leagues were better than Japanese league. Tons of black players would've been stars in MLB had they been allowed to compete. J-league is basically AAAA.

 

[ryan callahan]

Because Negro Leagues were better than Japanese league. Tons of black players would've been stars in MLB had they been allowed to compete. J-league is basically AAAA.

Well it's pretty fair to think that Sadaharu and Kaneda would have been MLB stars, especially considering how they dominated the sport in Japan

 

[darko]

Well it's pretty fair to think that Sadaharu and Kaneda would have been MLB stars, especially considering how they dominated the sport in Japan

Not necessarily. Lots of failed MLB players go on to become good players in Japan. Even stars.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Just because the Brazilian league sucks, it doesn't diminish Neymar or Pele or Sócrates or Zizinho as players. Great player are great players.

There's a lot of crap players that stick around the MLB as well (hi there Zach Duke).

 

[darko]

Just because the Brazilian league sucks, it doesn't diminish Neymar or Pele or Sócrates or Zizinho as players. Great player are great players.

Apples and oranges. Brazilian league is crap because all the talent is off to greener pastures (ie Europe).

 

[NJDevs26]

Yeah a lot of Brazilian players are great but they don't stay home. It would be like saying the Dominican baseball leagues stink, but a lot of Dominican players excel in the majors while the Dominican leagues are filled with younger players and guys who can't hack it.

 

[darko]

Yeah a lot of Brazilian players are great but they don't stay home. It would be like saying the Dominican baseball leagues stink, but a lot of Dominican players excel in the majors while the Dominican leagues are filled with younger players and guys who can't hack it.

Pretty much.

Real Madrid and Barcelona have been bleeding dry Brazil (and South America) for decades.

 

[bluesfan94]

Sorry. It's my birthday and I didn't know I was going to be gone as long as I was or I'd have left a list.

 

[bluesfan94]

Now that Oh is drafted, I can expand a bit more on my NPB. Tuffy Rhodes is one of the best NPB home run hitters of all time. Who you ask? Someone who hit .224 with 13 HR in the MLB

 

[ryan callahan]

Not necessarily. Lots of failed MLB players go on to become good players in Japan. Even stars.

Well using that logic, Gibson could have been a bust as well. The negro league certainly wasn't as strong as the MLB.

 

[NJDevs26]

Well using that logic, Gibson could have been a bust as well. The negro league certainly wasn't as strong as the MLB.

It's a faulty comparison, no MLB scrubs ever went to the Negro Leagues and dominated. While some Japanese stars came over and failed or became meh players. I still cringe at the hype over one of them who failed a decade ago as a Met fan

 

[Winger for Hire]

It's a faulty comparison, no MLB scrubs ever went to the Negro Leagues and dominated. While some Japanese stars came over and failed or became meh players. I still cringe at the hype over one of them who failed a decade ago as a Met fan

Really? White weren't allowed to play in the Negro Leagues. I can't believe we got to this point.

On Oh:

Oh played 110 exhibition games against major leaguers, either in October or November or during spring training. He had 338 at bats and hit for a .260 average with 88 walks for a .413 on-base percentage. He also slugged 14 doubles, no triples and 25 homers among his hits, for a .524 slugging average. Oh took ATD stalwarts Jim Palmer, Tom Seaver, and Steve Carlton (among others that haven't been drafted yet) deep.

There have been 54 Japanese born MLB players that have come to America to play in the MLB. There's currently 5 who are doing very well and have at least 1 All-Star game under their belts. 1 other has been a regular on 4 different teams and another just came over and had a pretty good year. 5 other players, who are retired now, carved out good MLB careers that include All-Star appearances, a No-Hitter, and a WS MVP. There was also a certain Yankees' star who started his career in the NPB then came over and was a 7 time All-Star.

A lot of the other ~40 Japanese players that came over weren't exactly the cream of the crop. A 30% hit rate isn't exactly a terrible percentage, especially seeing as how players weren't allowed to come over until around 1994 and the posting system forces them to play part of their prime before they can think about jumping leagues (if their team allows it).

 

[UL Washington]

There were enough games between Negro League teams and teams with MLBers to give credence to the fact that they had comparable talent. Maybe not the same depth of quality, but the stars and elite players in the Negro Leagues can be in the same conversation with their white counterparts. here's a good analysis of the Negro Leagues success against white teams:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/archive/index.php/t-39148.html

Conversely, I don't think the same can be said about Japanese leagues. Although, I am a lot less knowledgeable on the subject. The things that come to mind are 1) the time Ruth took a team over the Japan and they beat Japanese teams something like 13 games to 1 and b) the stadiums are smaller in Japan, by 10-15% so home run totals are inflated (see Tuffy Rhodes). That being said, the elite players through the years could have very well had great MLB careers, its just far tougher to judge. I think Oh being picked right around the time Fred McGriff was taken is probably a solid comparison to how Oh could have fared in the majors (against better pitching and in bigger ballparks).

 

[UL Washington]

And some white players did go to play in the Negro Leagues after MLB had integrated. Sounds like the plot of a Farrelly Brothers movie.

 

[Winger for Hire]

And some white players did go to play in the Negro Leagues after MLB had integrated. Sounds like the plot of a Farrelly Brothers movie.

Fair enough, but after integration the league(s) lost all of their top end talent. So the quality of the league dropped quite a bit.

 

[Winger for Hire]

So the draft is over?

 

[td_ice]

"Bueller............Bueller..............Bueller............"

 

[bluesfan94]

PMed DisgruntledHawkFan telling him that he's up again as Angels have been skipped.

Guys, please leave lists. I know that you have 8 hours to make a pick and I've been guilty of this as well, including just last night, but it really does move faster if you leave a list. For example, unless I pick by ~3:30, I'll be leaving Pwn with a list for my next pick and maybe even the pick after that.

 

[UL Washington]

So no one is on board with doubling up picks starting round 19?

 

[NJDevs26]

So no one is on board with doubling up picks starting round 19?

That would advantage teams in the beginning of odd numbered rounds.

 

[Tecumseh]

So no one is on board with doubling up picks starting round 19?

I am. **** it. Let's do it.

 

[bluesfan94]

So no one is on board with doubling up picks starting round 19?

I like this idea, but I don't know if I like instituting it mid draft. It changes draft strategy. Definitely would be on board next year.

 

[UL Washington]

That would advantage teams in the beginning of odd numbered rounds.

Yes, but since it would be for the last 8 rounds, each team has the same benefit.

And let's be honest, middle relievers, bench players and a manager aren't going to make an impact to where anyone's teams finish.

 

[UL Washington]

I like this idea, but I don't know if I like instituting it mid draft. It changes draft strategy. Definitely would be on board next year.

Not sure how it changes draft strategy that much. At his point you are filling in holes for your specific team. I'm proposing this even though there will be 17 more guys off the board for my 9th rounder than then current format. Who really cares? It will get the draft done two weeks quicker though.

Past drafts, the voting hasn't been fantastic. Part of that may be because people lose interest when we spend a month drafting bench players and relievers.

 

[le_sean]

Enos Slaughter is a good pick. He's be more widely regarded had he not lost prime years due to the war. I believe those three years he served were sandwiched between two Top 3 MVP finishes.