Official 2024 NHL Draft Thread

[renberg]

Sorry, I still can't get on board here. Positional need should be no more than a tiebreaker between two players you otherwise have equal grades on. Given the choice between a player you think is the next Kucherov and a player you think is the next Frost, you'd be shooting your goddamn foot off taking the latter because your center depth is bad. Take the better player. Who knows, maybe he's a center at the next level anyway. G was drafted as a winger.

The difference between a defenseman and the centers that might be available at DC12 is not that great. In fact I might say that Catton, Helenius, Sennecke or Nygard might be more impactful than whatever defenseman is left over at that point in the draft. Unless Demidov has been arrested by Putin and falls off of the page, we're not talking a Kucherov vs a Frost type at 12.

 

[ponder719]

The difference between a defenseman and the centers that might be available at DC12 is not that great. In fact I might say that Catton, Helenius, Sennecke or Nygard might be more impactful than whatever defenseman is left over at that point in the draft. Unless Demidov has been arrested by Putin and falls off of the page, we're not talking a Kucherov vs a Frost type at 12.

See, now we're having a different conversation. Now it's not "draft a center because there's positional need," it's "there are multiple prospects of equivalent value across multiple positions, choose the one who is also a better positional fit." That I would be 100% on board with.

Of course, all of this is pending information about who randomly slides on the 28th. If, as you mentioned, Demidov is suddenly sitting there (or he drops to 7-8 and we see an opportunity to go get him), then who gives a rat's ass that he's a winger, he's a potential star, make it happen. If Buium happens to be the second-best player remaining on the 10 non-San Jose boards ahead of us, I don't care if Helenius or Catton is also available, I think Buium is that much better that you go that route anyway. But if you're dealing with a handful of prospects who aren't otherwise differentiable, and they all have that A/A+ skill in their toolbox, then you're fine taking the player whose skillset best fits the team's expected future depth chart.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Just ran one of those draft simulators and wound up with this.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Just ran one of those draft simulators and wound up with this.

View attachment 883631
View attachment 883632

If we can get Luchanko at 51 I’d be really happy. Doubt he lasts that long though

 

[pit]

Where is the RW depth? Outside of Michkov, Foerster, Tippett, Brink, and Tuomaala I can‘t think of anyone.

I was thinking more current roster and where they're at now (meaning neither Brink or Foerster are ready to step up to 1RW), but yes, you're right.

 

[nacc BLOCC]

does anyone else see konsta helenius and instantly think “wow what a wild way to misspell kristian huselius?“

nothing like remembering some guys

 

[Kelmitchell2]

I feel so small at 5'10"

I'm 6'0 and the way some of the guys on here act about size I'm sure they'd think I was too small lol

 

[BillDineen]

If the Flyers try to trade up for anyone, my bet would be Dickinson.

 

[BritainStix]

If the Flyers try to trade up for anyone, my bet would be Dickinson.

If we land big Dick, then the flyers should go all in on Zegras to solidify the centre position.

Sanheim - York
Seeler - Drysdale
Dickinson - Bonk

Fill me with some level of hope for the future.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

If we land big Dick, then the flyers should go all in on Zegras to solidify the centre position.

Sanheim - York
Seeler - Drysdale
Dickinson - Bonk

Fill me with some level of hope for the future.

Zegras does not solidify the center position.

 

[Appleyard]

I'm 6'0 and the way some of the guys on here act about size I'm sure they'd think I was too small lol

The hilarious thing is that outside of soccer and field hockey...

ice hockey is the team sport where size matters LEAST.

Now, ofc, with almost every sport if you can have the same player skill wise at 6'4 and 210lbs vs 5'10 and 180lbs? Yeh... the first is probably better. Unless they are a jockey... or a hooker in rugby union!

But overall? Not that much of the game is spent in 1v1 physical battles. Skill is the most important attribute. Skating is probably 2nd most important these days.

Some of it I am sure is just built around masculine homosocial enactment... and the bigger and tougher a man is the more impressive - in general - to other men that is aha. Being associated with them makes a people feel more masculine themselves. Why so many guys in bars etc drool about their team getting bigger, tougher, harder... it is effectively their adopted "gang" and on some subliminal level they want to associate themselves with that.

 

[Larry44]

Just ran one of those draft simulators and wound up with this.

View attachment 883631
View attachment 883632

Pretty good list,

Here's mine with the Bob Mac list from Draft Simulator. Note: I don't take the 36 pick, because I can't see CBJ letting us have it this year. Eliasson will never be around that late either or Solberg.

(12) Berkly Catton, C
(30) Alfons Freij, LD
(51) Sam O'Reilly, C
(77) Stian Solberg, LD
(148) Gabriel Eliasson, LD
(150) AJ Spellacy, C
(173) Lucas Van Vliet, LW
(177) Paul Mayer, LD
(205) Nathan Aspinall, LW

 

[Wangstar]

I didn’t specify like Center as specific. I just meant playmaker over shooter, I do agree bpa. Their should be Center/w or w/c at 12.

 

[MrGuyPerson]

I don't exactly see Drouin, as he was a kind of play that had and still has mental issues to his game. Not even IQ, but mental health stuff. The guy was generally fragile mentally and had problems. That's an uncommon trait from a higher draft pick and it's not exactly predictable. I think considering his Drouin isn't correct.

Also being small isn't as much of a problem these days as getting the bigger guy doesn't always mean the better play. While I'm not saying his skill level is of Bedard, but he's under 6 foot. Kucherov is under 6 foot and the guy is their current franchise player. Same with Kaprizov. Then you have 2023 picks in Michkov, Benson, Yager, Moore, Perreault and Cowan all going in in the first round, all under 6 foot, and project to be pretty damn good players. Shit, we're even getting smaller elite goalies and the era of tall as hell goalies seems to be going away. By the way, Bolts won 2 cups in a row with Point, who is under 6 foot, as their top center.

Also using Florida as the barometer when they technically still haven't won the cup yet, is kind of silly. Flyers as they are now are also not Florida. They will also need a future center to be able to feed to and take passes from Michkov, and I think Catton can be that kind of player. His offensive ceiling is much higher than that of Helenius, Nygard, Lindstrom and Sennecke. However, if Iginla is there, I think you have to really consider taking Iginla over Catton. I think both are going to be good.

Anyways, getting off track, to say that Catton is Drouin I think is silly. From what I can tell, the issues that Drouin was going to have didn't really show up on scouting reports, especially his mental stability. Also, I think scouting is generally getting better with every year, so some of this stuff can be sniffed out better, I think, then in the past 10 years.

You wrote a lot and I am going to try to address as much as I can, I am sorry if I miss anything :

For the first section, I don't know Drouin personally so I can't really comment on him being fragile mentally as a prospect. I do know his motor was not running 24/7 as prospect because it was visible.

Second section, I don't subscribe to the Size Supremacy ideology and never have. I subscribe to high IQ, motor/compete levels shown in winners, play style, and some element of tangible skill. I think Tangible skill is far more likely to develop further if the player being evaluated has the perquisite Motor needed to grow their game every off season.

I don't disagree that it is silly to try to imitate Florida. However, I also don't think us saying that will prevent teams from wanting to imitate their structure. Also considering they have already been to back-2-back cups, not counting this year because they didn't "win it yet" is not a great reason to ignore their post season success. I don't think "Size" is the key to their success. The way I see it, 4 full forward lines committed to strong play in the D-Zone, depth, physicality, and defensively focused D-men are the keys to their success.

Next point, I don't think Catton cares about the D-Zone. To clarify, the issue is not that he is not good at defense. If the issue was simply the quality of his play it would not matter as much to me, because as long as he is trying it is rather easy to improve. The problem in this situation I don't think Catton trys in D-Zone. Which turns into questioning how much he cares about winning hockey games in general. I have seen Catton compared to Stankoven and Benson and I see why people do it (high IQs, Skill, size), but I think it is a bad comp. Sure they have similarities, but if you watched either player in the past you'd see what a high motor that does whatever it takes to win looks like and then you could cross reference that to what you see from Catton. Very different.

Final point you mentioned "future center to be able to feed to and take passes from Michkov" here are my issues with the statement. First I have a lot of doubt Catton plays center at the next level. Zero Doubt Iginla and Helenius do. Second, Matevi is already not a defensive stalwart. If you put these two kids on the ice together you better be prepared to get lit up both defensively and in puck possession. If they do ever get the puck... yeah the other team should watch out because magic could be made, but I would really focus on the IF in that statement. Catton will not put the game, back on to Michkov's stick. He can move it to Michkov after someone else puts the game back on the stick of the Flyers, but Catton won't be the guy doing it. That's how I see them blending in any non-powerplay situation. I see it as a major liability to their own teams momentum. 2 of 5 guys waiting for the game to be put in their wheel house is a good receipe to ensure you watch the other team hold on to that puck for awhile in your D-Zone. Comparitvely I know players like Nygard, Iginla, and Helenius will make a play to change possession and effectively put the game back in the hands of Michkov while at the same time also be an asset to him in offensive zone. I'm here for being proved wrong, but I'm not confident Catton is a Star nor am I confident he is a center.

Side note not in response Ferrari putting Nygard at 6(5th forward)was very validating. Happy I'm not the only one who sees the potential for more offense in the kid

 

[ajgoal]

I had the same visceral reaction to this as someone calling Avril Lavigne the most important punk musical artist of the last 2 decades.

I feel attacked.

Some of it I am sure is just built around masculine homosocial enactment...

I read this as "masculine homicidal intent."

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

You wrote a lot and I am going to try to address as much as I can, I am sorry if I miss anything :

For the first section, I don't know Drouin personally so I can't really comment on him being fragile mentally as a prospect. I do know his motor was not running 24/7 as prospect because it was visible.

Second section, I don't subscribe to the Size Supremacy ideology and never have. I subscribe to high IQ, motor/compete levels shown in winners, play style, and some element of tangible skill. I think Tangible skill is far more likely to develop further if the player being evaluated has the perquisite Motor needed to grow their game every off season.

I don't disagree that it is silly to try to imitate Florida. However, I also don't think us saying that will prevent teams from wanting to imitate their structure. Also considering they have already been to back-2-back cups, not counting this year because they didn't "win it yet" is not a great reason to ignore their post season success. I don't think "Size" is the key to their success. The way I see it, 4 full forward lines committed to strong play in the D-Zone, depth, physicality, and defensively focused D-men are the keys to their success.

Next point, I don't think Catton cares about the D-Zone. To clarify, the issue is not that he is not good at defense. If the issue was simply the quality of his play it would not matter as much to me, because as long as he is trying it is rather easy to improve. The problem in this situation I don't think Catton trys in D-Zone. Which turns into questioning how much he cares about winning hockey games in general. I have seen Catton compared to Stankoven and Benson and I see why people do it (high IQs, Skill, size), but I think it is a bad comp. Sure they have similarities, but if you watched either player in the past you'd see what a high motor that does whatever it takes to win looks like and then you could cross reference that to what you see from Catton. Very different.

Final point you mentioned "future center to be able to feed to and take passes from Michkov" here are my issues with the statement. First I have a lot of doubt Catton plays center at the next level. Zero Doubt Iginla and Helenius do. Second, Matevi is already not a defensive stalwart. If you put these two kids on the ice together you better be prepared to get lit up both defensively and in puck possession. If they do ever get the puck... yeah the other team should watch out because magic could be made, but I would really focus on the IF in that statement. Catton will not put the game, back on to Michkov's stick. He can move it to Michkov after someone else puts the game back on the stick of the Flyers, but Catton won't be the guy doing it. That's how I see them blending in any non-powerplay situation. I see it as a major liability to their own teams momentum. 2 of 5 guys waiting for the game to be put in their wheel house is a good receipe to ensure you watch the other team hold on to that puck for awhile in your D-Zone. Comparitvely I know players like Nygard, Iginla, and Helenius will make a play to change possession and effectively put the game back in the hands of Michkov while at the same time also be an asset to him in offensive zone. I'm here for being proved wrong, but I'm not confident Catton is a Star nor am I confident he is a center.

Side note not in response Ferrari putting Nygard at 6(5th forward)was very validating. Happy I'm not the only one who sees the potential for more offense in the kid

I agree about the high IQ and motor to get better play going in the NHL. Having the smarts and the drive to keep you going shift to shift can be the difference in a win or a loss, or getting a goal versus giving up a goal.

While there are molds, not every mold is the same, especially since good play styles for teams can change every several years and what works today may not work in 5 years. Flyers need to draft properly to actually build and have the talent necessary to push forward, and as we are with so many bad and dead contracts, it's going to be a long f***ing wait. Especially when you have a dinosaur coach with too much power.

Teaching to be better in the D-zone is something that can be done for Catton. As with always going up in leagues, especially to the pros, you have to take on more responsibility, taught more and relied upon more from shift to shift. Your mistakes are much more apparent in the pros. The only reason Stankoven went to the 2nd round was because stupid people caring about size too much. Benson falling was a f***ing miracle for Buffalo. Catton has very good offensive talents and can skate well. But those are much harder to teach at this point than being better on defense. Catton, if the Flyers did draft him, probably wouldn't be in the NHL for like 2 or 3 years, minimum. Bare minimum would be 1 year juniors, 1 year AHL, before the NHL.

The thing about Iginla, is that he switched from center to LW (if I remember correctly) and that is when his play exploded and shot up the rankings. If that's the case, I think they draft him as a LW. Helenius will 100% be a center. Also, by all accounts, Catton is generally seen as a center, but there are places that say he's a LW. If that's the case, while not a center, he could still feed the puck to Michkov (as he's a RW). As a winger, you do have less of a responsibility when it comes to defense, especially compared to a center. Not excusing him, but it could be a way he's used if drafted, and I don't think that's an issue. It may seem like a bit of goal post moving, but my original assessment on Catton was center, not as a winger. I will say this, from what I've seen of replays, Catton can bring at least one thing this team struggles to have, and that's speed. Seriously, the Flyers might be the slowest team in the NHL. I really wish someone had analytics about this.

 

[MrGuyPerson]

I agree about the high IQ and motor to get better play going in the NHL. Having the smarts and the drive to keep you going shift to shift can be the difference in a win or a loss, or getting a goal versus giving up a goal.

While there are molds, not every mold is the same, especially since good play styles for teams can change every several years and what works today may not work in 5 years. Flyers need to draft properly to actually build and have the talent necessary to push forward, and as we are with so many bad and dead contracts, it's going to be a long f***ing wait. Especially when you have a dinosaur coach with too much power.

Teaching to be better in the D-zone is something that can be done for Catton. As with always going up in leagues, especially to the pros, you have to take on more responsibility, taught more and relied upon more from shift to shift. Your mistakes are much more apparent in the pros. The only reason Stankoven went to the 2nd round was because stupid people caring about size too much. Benson falling was a f***ing miracle for Buffalo. Catton has very good offensive talents and can skate well. But those are much harder to teach at this point than being better on defense. Catton, if the Flyers did draft him, probably wouldn't be in the NHL for like 2 or 3 years, minimum. Bare minimum would be 1 year juniors, 1 year AHL, before the NHL.

The thing about Iginla, is that he switched from center to LW (if I remember correctly) and that is when his play exploded and shot up the rankings. If that's the case, I think they draft him as a LW. Helenius will 100% be a center. Also, by all accounts, Catton is generally seen as a center, but there are places that say he's a LW. If that's the case, while not a center, he could still feed the puck to Michkov (as he's a RW). As a winger, you do have less of a responsibility when it comes to defense, especially compared to a center. Not excusing him, but it could be a way he's used if drafted, and I don't think that's an issue. It may seem like a bit of goal post moving, but my original assessment on Catton was center, not as a winger. I will say this, from what I've seen of replays, Catton can bring at least one thing this team struggles to have, and that's speed. Seriously, the Flyers might be the slowest team in the NHL. I really wish someone had analytics about this.

If the Flyers take Catton I hope that you are correct that he can and will improve in the D-Zone. I personally am not certain he will, but I think it is fine if we have different opinions. I think he would be very good on the wing and on the powerplay. That said even if he is on the wing I am still not confident he will mix well with Michkov 5 v 5, but I do recognize Catton's upside. He is talented. He does have a high IQ and great tangible skill. I agree that defenses is easier to teach than Tangible skills like skating and shooting. I would like to say work ethics/motors can't be taught, so if I am correct it is going to be tough to develop him further.

I agree there are many different ways to build a champion. That said I do like the composition Florida has a whole lot. I 100% agree with your assessment on the state of the flyers. I have wanted them to tank for awhile and they hired a coach that over performs with inferior talent. If they were in a real position to get Demidov in this draft, there would not be any debate on who should be taken, but the organization put themselves here.

I hear what you're saying about Iginla, but he played Center at the U18 worlds and looked incredible doing so. Mckenna stole the show, but he wasnt involved in most of Iginla's production. I also personally find it tough to imagine a complete 200ft hockey player with average speed ending up on the wing. Anything is possible, but I don't think so. I know Catton is generally seen as a center. However, if he brings his game as is to the league, I am pretty confident he will not be. Obviously development could occur. Adds some maturity, who knows? I don't. And not knowing the answer to that question is why I would still take all 3 of Iginla, Nygard, and Helenius over Catton.

Again sorry if I did not respond to everything, but I appreciate your insights

 

[BiggE]

The hilarious thing is that outside of soccer and field hockey...

ice hockey is the team sport where size matters LEAST.

Now, ofc, with almost every sport if you can have the same player skill wise at 6'4 and 210lbs vs 5'10 and 180lbs? Yeh... the first is probably better. Unless they are a jockey... or a hooker in rugby union!

But overall? Not that much of the game is spent in 1v1 physical battles. Skill is the most important attribute. Skating is probably 2nd most important these days.

Some of it I am sure is just built around masculine homosocial enactment... and the bigger and tougher a man is the more impressive - in general - to other men that is aha. Being associated with them makes a people feel more masculine themselves. Why so many guys in bars etc drool about their team getting bigger, tougher, harder... it is effectively their adopted "gang" and on some subliminal level they want to associate themselves with that.

Absolutely!
Sure, you want a few decent sized Dmen with long wingspans primarily for the PK, but in this era, overall size is less important than ever.

Obviously, if you can find a freak of nature like Lindros in his prime you grab him and count yourself blessed, but skill, skating and smarts should be what you are looking for.

 

[BiggE]

On another topic, I don’t worry that much about a top forward prospect’s D zone play. What I want to see is:
1. Skill
2. Vision
3. Skating ability
4. The ability to react quickly to situations on the ice
5. A willingness to work and improve his game

If he checks off those 5 boxes, everything else can be taught. Most of the top prospects have dominated the lower levels, I don’t expect these forwards to be finished products when it comes to defensive play. That will come with time.

 

[flyershockey]

I don't really get the hate on Rory for not sticking around to congratulate Bryson. It's not an overly common practice at this level. If Bryson hadn't done it a month ago, I doubt it's even part of the conversation.

The guy has got to be incredibly frustrated. He's got three top ten finishes in his last ten major starts, including three second place finishes with the last including a horrible meltdown. That's after Bryson tried his best to give it away with his own missed shortie. He knows he's on the backside of his career in major contention and each failure tarnishes his legacy, when at one point in his early 20's he had people thinking he would rival Tiger/Jack in terms of major wins.

He's been the most inconsistent elite player of the last decade. He's almost never had every facet of his game working at its highest level at the same time. When he's striking the ball well, he can't make 10-foot putts consistently enough. When he's putting well, he struggles with driving accuracy, etc., etc.

 

[Flyerfan13]

I don't really get the hate on Rory for not sticking around to congratulate Bryson. It's not an overly common practice at this level. If Bryson hadn't done it a month ago, I doubt it's even part of the conversation.

The guy has got to be incredibly frustrated. He's got three top ten finishes in his last ten major starts, including three second place finishes with the last including a horrible meltdown. That's after Bryson tried his best to give it away with his own missed shortie. He knows he's on the backside of his career in major contention and each failure tarnishes his legacy, when at one point in his early 20's he had people thinking he would rival Tiger/Jack in terms of major wins.

He's been the most inconsistent elite player of the last decade. He's almost never had every facet of his game working at its highest level at the same time. When he's striking the ball well, he can't make 10-foot putts consistently enough. When he's putting well, he struggles with driving accuracy, etc., etc.

Wrong thread?

 

[flyershockey]

Wrong thread?

Yep, lol. I was reading the golf thread and I'm still a confirmed moron.

That's still a quality Rory take though...

 

[Appleyard]

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

People need to understand that higher offense doesn't mean weaker defense. Always goes with the idea that this guy may not put up points, but I'm sure his defense is actually good, when they aren't mutually exclusive either.

 

[Flyerfan13]

Curious if at 12 both of catton and parekh are available who would everyone take and why?