Kelmitchell2
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- Aug 30, 2020
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Official 2023 NHL Draft Thread
- Thread starter LegionOfDoom91
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I'm not sure on the rules either, but the first pick of a rebuild shouldn't be a guy with a risk (even if it isn't a big risk) of never playing in the NHL by choice. Sure, we could let him rot over there (if that is how it works with the rights never expiring) but I'd much rather have a viable player with the 7th pick in the draft at the beginning of a rebuild than teach a kid a lesson by strong-arming him to play here (or letting him rot in the KHL). Not exactly a recipe for success. Actually that would be on-brand for the Flyers so my guess is this is what hapens.
deadhead
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- Feb 26, 2014
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I was using an example of a high scorer who's a defensive liability, one of the criticisms of Michkov is his lackadasial defense, though three years in the KHL may cure that (the most defense oriented league in hockey, you think Torts is a SOB, at least he doesn't push players out of windows . . .).
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
I know I've been a big supporter of Gulyayev, but sometimes I do wonder if his path to his ceiling isn't difficult. Name a single Russian NHL defenseman who plays like him. It's a small pool, but even historically, he is an anomaly. He's just so fish out of water in the KHL system. I've seen him often used on the 3rd pair; as the mister below me mentioned he can have a weird propensity to take bad shots. Yet, he's such a talent and natural breakout machine. This is where I wonder about his instincts and coaching clashing. I don't have an answer there. He has some of the quickest feet in the draft, he oozes talent and aggression on/off puck. I'd love to see what he'd look like *grabs amulet to ward off spirits* in the CHL.
With this team? Recent history says they’ll try to get quasi centers and big RHD and shooters until Ragnarok. Lack of success is just adversity!
It’s this simple to me: Leonard has a very clear pathway to being a good — perhaps very good depending on linemates — NHLer. I just don’t see a realistic path to him being a star, the main offensive piece on a line (any top 9 line), or a PP1 QB. I don’t know how you can justify that for an organization lacking in all 3. You don’t escape perma-mediocrity with that. It’s how you become the Columbus Tortorellas. Leonard is not close to Tkachuk — that’s just HockeyGuys™ annually selecting a hot NHL commodity and then working backwards in finding their version……to predictable results.
Two complementary offensive pieces — without plus playmaking — with 5th and 7th overall picks in consecutive classes? And I think Leonard is a clear tier above Dvorsky, Reinbacher, etc. If he's gone by 7, that's me saying it can get worse.
With this team? Recent history says they’ll try to get quasi centers and big RHD and shooters until Ragnarok. Lack of success is just adversity!
It’s this simple to me: Leonard has a very clear pathway to being a good — perhaps very good depending on linemates — NHLer. I just don’t see a realistic path to him being a star, the main offensive piece on a line (any top 9 line), or a PP1 QB. I don’t know how you can justify that for an organization lacking in all 3. You don’t escape perma-mediocrity with that. It’s how you become the Columbus Tortorellas. Leonard is not close to Tkachuk — that’s just HockeyGuys™ annually selecting a hot NHL commodity and then working backwards in finding their version……to predictable results.
Two complementary offensive pieces — without plus playmaking — with 5th and 7th overall picks in consecutive classes? And I think Leonard is a clear tier above Dvorsky, Reinbacher, etc. If he's gone by 7, that's me saying it can get worse.
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AndHeMissedTheNet
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Feb 12, 2014
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I've decided that i don't want Michkov. If they somehow take him at 7, i will be 100% convinced that he will never actually play a game for the Flyers. Because they're the Flyers, and that's just the way things work.
I think the situation with Michkov will be out of our hands anyway. If he makes it to #4 I imagine the sharks will jump all over it.
Ideally I'd like Philly to get Benson but the past week I've warmed up to Leonard - assuming Benson is gone, that is.
Ideally I'd like Philly to get Benson but the past week I've warmed up to Leonard - assuming Benson is gone, that is.
Gregor Samsa
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- Sep 5, 2020
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It would be par the course for the Flyers to select Michkov, and he never comes over. Of course the player selected 8th will go onto win 10 Harts, 6 Conn Smythe’s, be elected into the HHOF while still playing, and be nicknamed Mr NHL
FlyerNutter
In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Don’t be afraid.
They can get a franchise player at 7. You take that risk every day, and run away laughing.
He’s coming over. Whether or not he gets along with the esteemed John Tortorella is another question but they would be downright stupid to pass over Matvei if given the chance.
AndHeMissedTheNet
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Yeah i can't see that as the reality. Sorry. Could he be a franchise player? Sure. But you can't force someone to play where he doesn't want to play. And i have no reason to assume Michkov would ever suit up for the Flyers.
Give me Leonard or Benson or Moore over him.
IronMarshal
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- Sep 28, 2014
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If he wont play for the Flyers, teams would line up to trade a haul for his rights.
mja
Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt
DeBrincat's listed between 5'7" and 5'8" while Michkov's listed everywhere from 5'10" up to 6' on Google. It's a bullshit comparison he pulled out of his ass, because that's what he does.
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
I don't think Michkov is a franchise player, truthfully. I think he projects to be a good-very good 1st liner, hence he's on a tier with a couple other guys I'd be ecstatic to get. Honestly, the defensive stuff is a big bag of whatever to me. Maybe I got better samples in the MHL, but his effort and work rate rarely bugged me in any zone. He's not Benson on that front, but there were more outright positives than negatives.
Meltzer is working overtime complaining about Benson while championing Dvorsky (*looks at flag* a better skating Handzus!), so we can guess where the team is heading.
Meltzer is working overtime complaining about Benson while championing Dvorsky (*looks at flag* a better skating Handzus!), so we can guess where the team is heading.
Flybynite
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- Feb 25, 2018
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Michkov will be Pavel Brendl if he is a flyer, but Pavel Bure for someone else.
uggg. I so hope you're wrong about Meltzer softening us up for the inevitable, but sadly, I doubt you are.
deadhead
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Unger9
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it doesn't sound like anyone knows anything, really. As far as I've seen, the rumors have been coming from journalists figuring which players the Flyers met with, which probably means almost nothing
and separately, is Dvorsky really supposed to produce more than he did in Allsvenskan on the 3rd line probably being deployed as a defensive center?
if it ends up that we passed on Benson for a lesser player, we're definitely not going to be the only team to do it
and separately, is Dvorsky really supposed to produce more than he did in Allsvenskan on the 3rd line probably being deployed as a defensive center?
if it ends up that we passed on Benson for a lesser player, we're definitely not going to be the only team to do it
Kelmitchell2
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I do not want dvorsky, but I'm ready to be hurt again by this franchise so I know it's coming, there's too much smoke out there to just be a coincidence, while I don't think dvorsky is going to be a flop, but he strikes me as a top 9 center with a slight chance at top 6, not really a guy you target at #7
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
He works for the team. He's chummy chummy with just about everyone. I'm not saying he knows -- I'm saying he has a way of leaking thoughts, that he may have heard, masked as his own opinion. If everyone else knows nothing, Meltzer usually knows an iota above nothing.
Back to the idea yesterday of this seem taking the same archetypes over and over, Dvorsky is a shoot first sorta-center. I think Dvorsky is a bit more well rounded than someone like Gauthier, but credit where credit's due, Gauthier has legitimately plus traits whereas Dvorsky is more average-above average across the board. It's a center weak draft, so that's already flirting with danger. Like I've said: find the first non-elite center (defenseman too) pick in any draft and most times you've found the most questionable value pick (Hayton, Turcotte, Kotkaniemi, etc.). If I thought he was even Mason McTavish, the archetype described, I'd be more bullish.
I've seen him 5-6 times, and I just do not see elite skills. I had a point/game Robert Thomas as a top 10ish pick, so I don't need to hear the notion that I don't "like" players of that ilk. Frankly, Dvorsky has excellent box score stats, but I don't necessarily buy it watching him. I'd be curious to know about how much of his production is PP weighted. I generally stay away from highlights unless I want to see someone at their very best, but even Dvorsky's highlights are mostly routine plays, shots, rebounds, etc. It’s exactly what he looks like in a full game. This is what middle 6 prospects look like.
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Unger9
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Dvorsky isn't a player that is eye grabby, but I think he's one that has an "it factor" and will still produce at a high end rate. While after watching his 2023 WJC I didn't see any skating concerns whatsoever, I think I have to be fair and admit that he is very reliant upon his linemates as well. He's not an individual effort kind of player, although I bet he could improve his ability to get to the slot with possession. But I don't think he has the high end agility and puck handling to be able to consistently get to the slot through some traffic unassisted for a chance (side note, Ryan Leonard does)
But.. as I detailed in an earlier post, Dvorsky already looks like a consummate professional and the attention to detail is amazing. He won't be complementary in the sense that he will be a play driving monster, rarely giving up possession. In fact, he values possession so much that it seems like he somewhat avoids trying higher risk/high reward maneuvers to the middle of the ice with the puck. He has a tendency to use the perimeter and teammates. So from a chance creating perspective, he approaches it from a team possession avenue. If he has linemates who can turn on a strong cycle game with him, they'll create loads of chances together, but I don't think he'll be creating high quality chances by himself super duper often
In addition to his great wrister he also has a great one-timer that doesn't get used enough for some reason. You could say the same about his wrister. This is why if someone from a time machine said hey Dvorsky's production is gonna be way higher than anyone thinks it'll be, I would believe it. But anyways these are my opinions and also I think I've solidly decided I prefer Moore for his upside
But.. as I detailed in an earlier post, Dvorsky already looks like a consummate professional and the attention to detail is amazing. He won't be complementary in the sense that he will be a play driving monster, rarely giving up possession. In fact, he values possession so much that it seems like he somewhat avoids trying higher risk/high reward maneuvers to the middle of the ice with the puck. He has a tendency to use the perimeter and teammates. So from a chance creating perspective, he approaches it from a team possession avenue. If he has linemates who can turn on a strong cycle game with him, they'll create loads of chances together, but I don't think he'll be creating high quality chances by himself super duper often
In addition to his great wrister he also has a great one-timer that doesn't get used enough for some reason. You could say the same about his wrister. This is why if someone from a time machine said hey Dvorsky's production is gonna be way higher than anyone thinks it'll be, I would believe it. But anyways these are my opinions and also I think I've solidly decided I prefer Moore for his upside
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Larry44
#FlyersPerpetualMediocrity
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In fairness to my friend Bill, he does get info that none of the the “insiders” get, because he works for the team, knows the scouts, and runs the Alumni communications. However, he works hard at having his own views and the team has never told him what to write.
I don’t see him pushing Dvorsky, he just responded to a question and confirmed the scouts’ good impression.
In Alex’s thread on the top 6, and trading down, Bill said he’d take Leonard - with Dvorsky still on the board, as his preference.
Larry44
#FlyersPerpetualMediocrity
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Meltzer has not been slagging Benson. He praised his hockey sense over Leonard’s in Charlie’s thread saying the latter is the Flyers’ (arche)type. He prefers Leonard but praised them both.
Ghosts Beer
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- Feb 10, 2014
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Benson seems to have cult-like support among some fans, where if he isn’t your top choice at 7 they lash out, even if you say you think he’ll be pretty good.
deadhead
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It doesn't sound like there's a slam dunk at #7, but the Flyers should get a top 6 forward, whether it's Benson, Moore or Leonard.
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