Value of: Offersheet from Edmonton for Lindholm

[Ducks in a row]

Why dont the Oilers just offer the Ducks the 1st in 2017 and 2018 and the second in 2017 for Lindholm ?

Why would the Oilers offer a win now team nothing but those picks for such a good young defenseman who was drafted 6th overall and plays for a division rival? It should be common sense Ducks would say no way in hell.

Maybe they could compromise, Edmonton agrees not to OS Lindholm, Anaheim agrees to trade Fowler to them for a package of cap clearing picks. My understanding is they want a LW, so Pouliot + Reinhart for Fowler + Stoner, perhaps.

Anaheim gets a LW, a defensive prospect, and saves about $3 million dollars with this deal, and can sign Lindholm + Rackell without too much fuss I would imagine.

Not trading Fowler when the best player we get back is Pouliot

 

[zar]

A few Edmonton fans wanted lindholm plus for hall... now they willingly want to give up 4 firsts and roughly 2 million a year overpayment for him

Right after they traded hall for larsson

There, I corrected it few you... every fanbase has some over exubant posters who are likely less than 16 years of age or don't know what they their *** from a hole in the ground... and sometimes even the knowledgeable posters get it wrong, due to being too much a homer or have their love-glasses on with a specific player.

I for one would have never thought Hall gets you Lindholm. I said a year ago that the Ducks would be in cap trouble this year and that Lindholm would be getting 6+ this year and a few Ducks posters thought it was too high... now it might be too low by a little and they also argued the Ducks would not be in cap trouble. Anyone who knows anything about player values knows that very good 1st pairing D are more valuable than very good 1st line wingers.

 

[zar]

I wonder if Anaheim would happily match and get four first round picks of Edmonton. First round picks that are notoriously pretty magical.

Then again, with the changes they've made, and the potential addition of Lindholm, there's a decent chance not even Edmonton can **** up with that nucleus.

??? That's not how it works Hictor.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

There, I corrected it few you... every fanbase has some over exubant posters who are likely less than 16 years of age or don't know what they their *** from a hole in the ground... and sometimes even the knowledgeable posters get it wrong, due to being too much a homer or have their love-glasses on with a specific player.

I for one would have never thought Hall gets you Lindholm. I said a year ago that the Ducks would be in cap trouble this year and that Lindholm would be getting 6+ this year and a few Ducks posters thought it was too high... now it might be too low by a little and they also argued the Ducks would not be in cap trouble. Anyone who knows anything about player values knows that very good 1st pairing D are more valuable than very good 1st line wingers.

The Ducks still aren't in cap trouble, so looks like those few fans would have been right.

 

[liquiduck]

There, I corrected it few you... every fanbase has some over exubant posters who are likely less than 16 years of age or don't know what they their *** from a hole in the ground... and sometimes even the knowledgeable posters get it wrong, due to being too much a homer or have their love-glasses on with a specific player.

I for one would have never thought Hall gets you Lindholm. I said a year ago that the Ducks would be in cap trouble this year and that Lindholm would be getting 6+ this year and a few Ducks posters thought it was too high... now it might be too low by a little and they also argued the Ducks would not be in cap trouble. Anyone who knows anything about player values knows that very good 1st pairing D are more valuable than very good 1st line wingers.

The only way he's getting north of 6 is if it's in a 7/8 year deal or Trouba gets overpaid.

 

[Funk21]

Draisatl, Puljujaarvi, McDavid, Nurse. Offersheets are playing with fire. Especially for a team pretty close to the cap like the Oilers. Just my two cents.

This X 1000

I would love the Oilers brass to do something like this just so that every GM in the NHL would make it open season on the Oilers RFA's, it would suit them right.

 

[crowi]

I for one would have never thought Hall gets you Lindholm. I said a year ago that the Ducks would be in cap trouble this year and that Lindholm would be getting 6+ this year and a few Ducks posters thought it was too high... now it might be too low by a little and they also argued the Ducks would not be in cap trouble. Anyone who knows anything about player values knows that very good 1st pairing D are more valuable than very good 1st line wingers.

There only are FEW ducks posters on this entire board. But sure man.

Could you just post quotes on who said 6+ was too high? I'm curious.

 

[zar]

I don't want the Oilers to be THAT team to be offer sheeting and pissing off all of these GMs... they don't need ot start a bidding war on some of our talent.

That being said... the Oilers will never be in that position with McDavid. People do realize that the team has to let the said player get to July 1 of the year his contract expires, right?

I assume the Oilers negotiations with McDavid will go some thing like this... "Connor, if agreeable to you, we would like to keep you an Oiler for the next 8 years. Here is a blank cheque... you fill out the amount. Please keep in mind that the more you fill out that cheque for will directly affect the team we can build around you."

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I don't want the Oilers to be THAT team to be offer sheeting and pissing off all of these GMs... they don't need ot start a bidding war on some of our talent.

That being said... the Oilers will never be in that position with McDavid. People do realize that the team has to let the said player get to July 1 of the year his contract expires, right?

I assume the Oilers negotiations with McDavid will go some thing like this... "Connor, if agreeable to you, we would like to keep you an Oiler for the next 8 years. Here is a blank cheque... you fill out the amount. Please keep in mind that the more you fill out that cheque for will directly affect the team we can build around you."

And he'll say screw the team

Gimme my money and drai and puj and nurse will be forced to let go


Lindholm should get close to what jones contract is, 6 isn't an over payment but I do think it's on the high side of what he's earned.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I don't want the Oilers to be THAT team to be offer sheeting and pissing off all of these GMs... they don't need ot start a bidding war on some of our talent.

That being said... the Oilers will never be in that position with McDavid. People do realize that the team has to let the said player get to July 1 of the year his contract expires, right?

I assume the Oilers negotiations with McDavid will go some thing like this... "Connor, if agreeable to you, we would like to keep you an Oiler for the next 8 years. Here is a blank cheque... you fill out the amount. Please keep in mind that the more you fill out that cheque for will directly affect the team we can build around you."

This would be Connor's first RFA deal, he'll get his market worth, so that last sentence doesn't matter.

 

[crowi]

I assume the Oilers negotiations with McDavid will go some thing like this... "Connor, if agreeable to you, we would like to keep you an Oiler for the next 8 years. Here is a blank cheque... you fill out the amount. Please keep in mind that the more you fill out that cheque for will directly affect the team we can build around you."

This is just laughable. You can't guilt trip Connor McDavid....

 

[Ducksgo*]

This is just laughable. You can't guilt trip Connor McDavid....

And he wouldn't sign. That's absolutely poor negotiation. Surprised that scenario was even mentioned.

If that was present to me I woud really wonder what type of 8 years would be like in Edmonton with such a poor negotiation offer. I would wonder about the RFAs, the UFAs signings. The players who would be traded just for my paycheck. Yah not even Edmonton is stupid enough to say that in negotiations.

 

[EscapedGoat]

Of course. First, the video is amateur, both of those men are hacks. Frei practically reports nothing on the Avs, all he does is want to write books. Here is what he says:



I think, I think, I think. That is someone's opinion. Nowhere does he say someone from the Avs said that, nor is there a quote from anyone within the Avs organization saying that. Frei's opinion ("I think) =/= "The Avs think." Terry Frei is not the Avalanche. Anyone holding that to be true is basically saying that Patrick Roy did this:

- gave his #5 defensman the most even strength minutes of any player on the entire club, ahead of all forwards and even guys like EJ.
- gave his #5 defensman 23 minutes a game
- played his #5 defensman over 25 minutes a game 18 times

Basic logic should debunk the truth of that. #5 defensmen don't get those minutes. If Roy is giving his #5 defensman the most even strength minutes on the team then I guess he must figure EJ is a #6? Beachemin should be in the pressbox?

I'm shocked the OP didn't respond to this. He threw out something that is completely incorrect, claimed it as fact, you thoroughly proved him wrong and made him look silly and he didn't respond to you again. Shocked I tells ya!

By the way OP, "I'd love a 46.9M 7yr deal to keep the RFA compensation under 4 1sts" is incorrect. You divide that overall salary by 5 in this case which gives you around a 9.4 million per year salary which is four 1st compensation. Shocked that someone who said the Avs consider Barrie a #5 PP Dman because their hack reporter said it in an opinion piece would be wrong on how offer sheets work. Shocked I tells ya!

 

[haseoke39]

Last time we did this thread from Buffalo's perspective, we had a few folks who said you needed to breach $10M, but the majority was that something around $8M would probably get it done.

I think a 5-year, $8M AAV deal that's maximally front-loaded would be the way to go. That first year could get up to around $13M, and the only reason the Ducks might be vulnerable is a year-to-year internal budget.

 

[Supermassive]

This X 1000

I would love the Oilers brass to do something like this just so that every GM in the NHL would make it open season on the Oilers RFA's, it would suit them right.

The Oilers organization is still paying heavily for the Dustin Penner offer sheet. No retaliatory offer sheets, but GMs around the league either outright refuse to do deals with Edmonton, or attach an Edmonton luxury tax on all trades. No kidding at all. Moving Lowe upstairs and MacT into a Helper Monkey position did very little to help the situation. Edmonton will continue to be behind the 8-ball until those two are let go. It's not a "we know what they want so we'll screw them" attitude, it's just a general "screw them" attitude.

 

[Ducksgo*]

The Oilers organization is still paying heavily for the Dustin Penner offer sheet. No retaliatory offer sheets, but GMs around the league either outright refuse to do deals with Edmonton, or attach an Edmonton luxury tax on all trades. No kidding at all. Moving Lowe upstairs and MacT into a Helper Monkey position did very little to help the situation. Edmonton will continue to be behind the 8-ball until those two are let go. It's not a "we know what they want so we'll screw them" attitude, it's just a general "screw them" attitude.

This entire quote! And is why as a ducks fan I'm still salty. It's still in the back of my mind regarding Lindholm. You just didn't piss off the Anaheim front staff who is still here, but the entire league regarding Penner. Regardless of GM swap. Edmonton set the bar regarding RFA offer sheets which is REAL! In this day and age.

 

[sabresfan129103]

Going a little OT here, but it's weird how in the NBA and NFL offersheets are somewhat common, but a huge taboo in the NHL. I wonder why that is.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Going a little OT here, but it's weird how in the NBA and NFL offersheets are somewhat common, but a huge taboo in the NHL. I wonder why that is.

NFL offersheets aren't that common. NBA offersheets offer no compensation, so you can't compare them.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Offer sheet him, future offer sheets aren't a worry.

Mcd 12 million
Larsson 4.1
Klef 4.1
Sekera 5.5
LINDHOLM 8

total 33.7 for your entire top 4 and #1 generational centre

Lucic 6
Ebs 6
Nuge 6
Drai 7.5
Pulju 7.5
Talbot 4.1(?)

Total 37ish million

Total together is 70 million, with a cap projected at 77 million ish by the time mcd signs, we have our entire top 6, top 4, and #1g signed. Obviously not ideal to only have 7ish million for the rest of the roster, but I imagine it would be easy to move ebs/nuge. Add in the fact that I overestimated(imo) on some of the contracts, and that ebs contract expires when pulju needs an extension, I think offer sheeting lindholm is one of the smartest things we can do.

You aren't getting Lindholm it's a fantasy not based in reality and I don't think Chiarelli is stupid enough to burn away 4 first round picks when he has so many high dollar players that have to be dealt with, the Oilers drafting after the 1st round speaks for itself, so he won't be relying on that to supplement his roster.

Then factor in the canadian dollar, and the bottom line is the Oilers would have to offer significantly more to him than Anaheim would for the dollars to be equal.

 

[zar]

There, I corrected it few you... every fanbase has some over exubant posters who are likely less than 16 years of age or don't know what they their *** from a hole in the ground... and sometimes even the knowledgeable posters get it wrong, due to being too much a homer or have their love-glasses on with a specific player.

I for one would have never thought Hall gets you Lindholm. I said a year ago that the Ducks would be in cap trouble this year and that Lindholm would be getting 6+ this year and a few Ducks posters thought it was too high... now it might be too low by a little and they also argued the Ducks would not be in cap trouble. Anyone who knows anything about player values knows that very good 1st pairing D are more valuable than very good 1st line wingers.

The Ducks still aren't in cap trouble, so looks like those few fans would have been right.

There only are FEW ducks posters on this entire board. But sure man.

Could you just post quotes on who said 6+ was too high? I'm curious.

Like I said that was a year ago when I said they would be hard pressed to keep all of their current talent. Some posters said they could and not be in cap trouble... they were said to be keeping Hagelin (now a 4.0 cap hit) and Andersen (5.0 cap hit).

Cap space left $15.695M (as per General Fanager)
- $9m above for Andersen and Hagelin = 6.695m to sign both Rakell, Lindholm + I think they would need 2-3 more contracts to fill their NHL roster. That is cap trouble.

Here are the posts you asked for...

I beg to differ...

Perry 8.625
Getzlaf 8.25
Kesler 6.875
Cogliano 3
Maroon 2
Thompson 1.6
Bieksa 4.6
Fowler 4
Stoner 3.25
Estimated
Silfverberg 4.25
Hagelin 3
Rakell 2
Lindholm 6
Vatanen 4
Despres 2.5
Andersen 4.5
Gibson 2.5
70.95 million, 17 players signed

4.25 for silf? lindholm will get 5, vatanen 3.5 and one of the goalies will be gone. Stoner will be traded as well I am sure with Theodore, Manson, Larsson ready. The Ducks will be fine for a long time and have a deep prospect pool to pull from if need be.

I think that's shooting a bit high in some cases, especially given that Murray is a guy that is pretty darn good at getting good value for his RFAs (unlike some of his UFAs). For example, I see Lindholm closer to 5. And Andersen/Gibson won't get a combined $7M - the only way Gibson gets to that kind of number is if he plays himself onto the team towards a starting job, at which point Andersen wouldn't get $4.5, otherwise Gibson will get playing time in San Diego, in which case he won't get $2M+ (the latter seeming more likely ATM).

Also, Bieksa's cap hit will be down to $4M after the upcoming year, and there's no telling whether some of the other guys will still be around - like Stoner or Maroon, with youngsters coming up. A guy like Theodore might even make a guy like Vatanen expendable in time, freeing up more money.

Murray is a pretty diligent cap manager, so I doubt we'll really run into trouble.


Things that neither any NHL team official nor any Ducks fan would say for $100. Yikes.

One of Gibson/Andersen will be gone.

Silver doesn't have the track record that Saad does. ~4M sounds about right IMO.

I would put Lindholm in the same category as Hamilton. Hamilton w/ better offense, Lindholm w/ better defense (IMO). My guess is 5M. Fowler got 4M, can't see them giving Lindholm 6M.

From another thread (again beginning of last year)...

Sami: 3.6
Hampers: 5.3
Fowler: 7 (I think he's a goner in 2 years)
Simon: 2
Stoner: gone (FA or traded)

Silf: 3.5
Cogs: 3
Sekac: 1.7
Big dog: gone (traded)
Stewart: gone (FA)
Hags: 3.5
Nate: 2
Ricky: 2
Tim: gone (FA)

Gibby: 1.6
Freddy: 3.5
Hudo: 2.25

Sami Vatanen: 4m x 3 (I think he's gonna be traded though- emotionally prepping for it at least)
Hampus Lindholm: 5.5m x 6
Cam Fowler: 7m x 6-8
Simon Despres: 2.5m x 2
Clayton Stoner: gone next summer


Jakob Silfverberg: 4m x 5
Andrew Cogliano: 3.5 x 3
Jiri Sekac: 1m x 1-2
Patrick Maroon: traded or let walk
Chris Stewart: walk
Carl Hagelin: 3.5 x 3
Nate Thompson: traded or walk
Rickard Rakell: 1.75m x 2-3
Tim Jackman: walks

John Gibson: 2m x 2
Frederick Andersen: traded next summer
Anton Khudobin: haven't seen enough of him to judge

Sami Vatanen: 3 x 3.75M
Hampus Lindholm: 6 X 5M
Cam Fowler: 5 X 5M
Simon Depres: 3 X 2.5M
Clayton Stoner: Does not get re-signed.


Jakob Silfverberg: 6 X 4.5M
Andrew Cogliano: 4 X 3.5M
Jiri Sekac: 2 X 1.8M
Patrick Maroon: 4 X 3M
Chris Stewart: Doubtful to re-sign. If so, 2 X 2M
Carl Hagelin: 4 X 3.75M
Nate Thompson: 3 X 1.5M
Rickard Rakell: 2 X 1.4M
Tim Jackman: 2 X 850K

John Gibson: 2 X 1.25M
Frederick Andersen: 5 X 5M
Anton Khudobin: 2 X 800k

Sami Vatanen: Traded
Hampus Lindholm: 6 years @ 5.5 million
Cam Fowler: 6 years @ 6.25 million
Simon Depres: 3 years @ 3 million
Clayton Stoner: won't be re-signed


Jakob Silfverberg: 6 years @ 4.5 million
Andrew Cogliano: 3 years @ 3.75
Jiri Sekac: 2 years @ 1.1
Patrick Maroon: 3 years @ 2.75
Chris Stewart: won't be re-signed
Carl Hagelin: 4 years @ 3.5 million
Nate Thompson: won't be re-signed
Rickard Rakell: 3 years @ 1.5 million
Tim Jackman: won't be re-signed

John Gibson:
Frederick Andersen:
Anton Khudobin:

Not even going to try on the goalies. Too many variables.

Sami Vatanen:4.25x3
Hampus Lindholm:5.5x5
Cam Fowler:7x7
Simon Depres:2.5x2
Clayton Stoner:walks


Jakob Silfverberg:3.75x5
Andrew Cogliano:3.5x3
Jiri Sekac:1.2x1
Patrick Maroon:walk
Chris Stewart:walk
Carl Hagelin:3.5x3
Nate Thompson:walk
Rickard Rakell:1.5x2
Tim Jackman:700k

John Gibson:1.5x2
Frederick Andersen:3.5x1
Anton Khudobin:walk

 

[Ducks DVM]

You aren't getting Lindholm it's a fantasy not based in reality and I don't think Chiarelli is stupid enough to burn away 4 first round picks when he has so many high dollar players that have to be dealt with, the Oilers drafting after the 1st round speaks for itself, so he won't be relying on that to supplement his roster.

Then factor in the canadian dollar, and the bottom line is the Oilers would have to offer significantly more to him than Anaheim would for the dollars to be equal.

All salaries are paid in US dollars. Tax rates would be the thing to look at, and I suspect it's marginally worse in California

 

[Ducksgo*]

You aren't getting Lindholm it's a fantasy not based in reality and I don't think Chiarelli is stupid enough to burn away 4 first round picks when he has so many high dollar players that have to be dealt with, the Oilers drafting after the 1st round speaks for itself, so he won't be relying on that to supplement his roster.

Then factor in the canadian dollar, and the bottom line is the Oilers would have to offer significantly more to him than Anaheim would for the dollars to be equal.

I always love reading your posts. But until I see that Lindholm signing nothing will surprise me. This damn league is so cut throat I can't remember anything like this type of hockey since the 90s to now! And as a kid following the mighty ducks it just got worst and worst and worst regarding RFAs around the league.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Like I said that was a year ago when I said they would be hard pressed to keep all of their current talent. Some posters said they could and not be in cap trouble... they were said to be keeping Hagelin (now a 4.0 cap hit) and Andersen (5.0 cap hit).

Cap space left $15.695M (as per General Fanager)
- $9m above for Andersen and Hagelin = 6.695m to sign both Rakell, Lindholm + I think they would need 2-3 more contracts to fill their NHL roster. That is cap trouble.

Here are the posts you asked for...









From another thread (again beginning of last year)...

Those quotes for the most part don't actually say 6+ is too high, they're just guesses for what they expected the cap hit to be.

For the record, I believe I was the first one on our boards to say he might want 6-7M, but you're misstating what those posts mean.

 

[Sojourn]

You aren't getting Lindholm it's a fantasy not based in reality and I don't think Chiarelli is stupid enough to burn away 4 first round picks when he has so many high dollar players that have to be dealt with, the Oilers drafting after the 1st round speaks for itself, so he won't be relying on that to supplement his roster.

Then factor in the canadian dollar, and the bottom line is the Oilers would have to offer significantly more to him than Anaheim would for the dollars to be equal.

This is incorrect. Lindholm would be paid in US dollars in Edmonton, just as he would in Anaheim.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Like I said that was a year ago when I said they would be hard pressed to keep all of their current talent. Some posters said they could and not be in cap trouble... they were said to be keeping Hagelin (now a 4.0 cap hit) and Andersen (5.0 cap hit).

Cap space left $15.695M (as per General Fanager)
- $9m above for Andersen and Hagelin = 6.695m to sign both Rakell, Lindholm + I think they would need 2-3 more contracts to fill their NHL roster. That is cap trouble.

Here are the posts you asked for...









From another thread (again beginning of last year)...

The Ducks are not in cap trouble right now, therefore your prediction from a year ago is wrong. If I say it will rain tomorrow and it doesn't, I was wrong.