mate shaner when he says dumb shit gets shat on by the same people-maybe the hazel mae example wasn't the greatest. But there def is hypocrisy in how they behave with some folks. Just MO. Anyway lets just talk jays baseball. I just wanted to ensure the dude posting these rumours continued to do so because frankly, I enjoy them.
Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Pt V: Spring(er) has Sprung: Jays sign OF George Springer (6y/$150m)
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zeke
The Dube Abides
- Mar 14, 2005
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Land Bauer and this team can go toe to toe with anyone the next few years, even without any other moves.
Get it!
Get it!
Yeah, my point wasn't very clear at all.
Personally, I don't mind what happened with Hazel Mae that much because she obviously has reliable sources and something got mixed up along the way. She made a mistake (either in reporting improperly or trusting the wrong person). Whatever.
So one is someone making a mistake while trying to do her job, and the other is someone (in my opinion) intentionally misleading people into believing he has inside information. The standards are (and should be) much higher for an actual reporter, but I think intent matters here.
And I obviously could ignore, but I would rather not because we usually have a lot of good discussions. We disagree a lot, but there's normally plenty of back and forth discussion involved in those disagreements. Now all of a sudden it goes from opinions on players and/or evidence-based discussions to "actually my sources tell me" and "the thinking around the league is..."
thehockeysong
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I think there should be a point when everyone can take a step back and say "alright, clearly I made a mistake. My bad". After two messages where you called people out, and both had been shown to be entirely off-base, you still came back with "oh please". So that would be why I took the time to point out it was incorrect again. It's not that it is "maybe not the greatest" "but there is still hypocrisy". Making a mistake is no big deal, but when you're sure everyone else is wrong and you're not wrong, that doesn't help the discussion. Moving the goal posts and pretending you were still a little bit right isn't really being honest.
Edit: and just to be clear, not looking to pile on here. Merely trying to explain my viewpoint and tone.
TheMadHatTrick
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It depends how they evaluate the pitching left on the free agent market. They have plenty of data and personal experience with Bauer from Cleveland, so if they passed on him I wouldn't question their decision.
It's unlikely but whose to say we can't do both Realmuto + Tanaka? Our payroll is just roughly over 105 million with our current signings.
Signing a guy at a position of strength and then dealing from depth gives us flexibility to target a larger pool of players. I would compare it to when the Leafs signed a goalie in Cujo despite already having Potvin. They were then able to flip Potvin for a top flight young defenseman in Bryan Berard (who tragically had his career cut short).
If Jansen + for Castillo were possible, then we'd be left without a starting catcher unless we signed or traded for a guy. Moreover, according to my calculations (using Fangraphs models) Castillo is worth between 75 to 78 million in expected surplus value. The closest players we have to that much value are Jansen (around 65), Gurriel (45), Pearson (44), and Martin (39), so Jansen would make a lot of sense to move in a deal for a top level pitcher if we could free up a spot.
Then again a rotation of Bauer, Ryu, Castillo, Pearson, Ray would be mighty sexy. We'd just have to settle for handsy McGuire as our starter until Kirk or Moreno are ready.
BlueForever75
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Only way to trade Jansen is to sign someone like Realmuto. As of right now that is not in the cards. If they become serious on his front then it becomes a possibility.
thehockeysong
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One benefit to having Jansen long-term is that his age aligns so well with the current core as well as future prospect additions. While I like the addition of veterans to the core to take off the pressure and help them to increase their chances at a playoff run, it's nice to have a balance of youth on the roster for long-term sustainability.
I'm quite bullish on this team being able to sustain success over the next decade. I very much hope fan attendance continues to push the team to invest in the roster.
I'm quite bullish on this team being able to sustain success over the next decade. I very much hope fan attendance continues to push the team to invest in the roster.
GoonieFace
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dredeye
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- Mar 3, 2008
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Shaner is a unique poster around these parts. I can’t think of one positive post he’s ever made in the jays thread ever. His routine is tired and he doesn’t offer anything to the board. It’s not bad to have an opposing view. It’s what gives us things to talk about. But he doesn’t do that either. Just a rogers is cheap and Useless stuff like that. I don’t think blue forever is stopping posting because of yesterday. He just unfortunately spoke with certainty like most and it back fired. He took his ribbing like a champ and I think is comfortable posting whatever he comes across.
I get what your saying about chasing people away because on the Bruins side we have two incredible insiders and they stopped posting anything publicly because of backlash but I think we’ve been mostly ok with him
BAM
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I was literally gunna say...if anyone just read the Jays thread's on this forum and guess based on the discussion & what the Jays have been linked to anyone could've been our "insider"
Paraphrasing but "why are you guys worried about the Brantley slip up, I'm telling you it's a done deal"
TheMadHatTrick
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TheMadHatTrick
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BAM
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Except for the fact that "insiders" on this board/website actually have to verify their status with the moderators if my memory serves me correct. I think chuckwoods had to do something similar.
These threads actually contain insightful information on the Jays compared to other platforms (for the most part), rather not see it turn into Eklund Blue jays edition.
BlueForever75
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Im agreeing with you, sorry for confusion.
I dont think McGuire as a starting catcher for the Jays holds any value. It would leave a huge hole in our lineup one that would be pointless if your wishing to contend.
thehockeysong
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thehockeysong
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While not getting Brantley is dissapointing based on the need for some left handed hitting, looking at next year's free agent class has to make any Jays fan excited. With that amount of talent and this teams financial flexibility, there are going to be a lot of opportunities to either trade for expiring players (and hope to sign) as well as potential big game hunting next offseason.
BlueForever75
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Yes a lot of INF (3B, SS and 1B) options. Starting pitching is meh. Too many past their prime pitchers. But players like Freddie Freeman and Rizzo are interesting LH bats. As for SS its a plenty. If somehow we can secure one of Lindor, Story or Baez. It would be great. But there are others like Seager as well.
Time will tell what happens and how prospects develop. If Bichette turns into a superstar as we expect. The need for SS isnt there. The hope is he does, and we can be focusing on other things while we let teams fight over the SS spot. Make some under the radar signings.
BAM
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Probably not necessary for offensive purposes due to the Springer signing but I wonder when the A's start to consider moving Chapman. Free agent in 2024 and their highest paid player is Davis at a shade under $17 million. Chapman has had two MVP caliber seasons already so he should blow past that # in arbitration in the coming years.
I don't think it would be necessary to try and trade for him until after seeing the team perform in 2021 to get a sense of where they are. If the Jays with internal growth and the vets performing as expected look like a top 3-5 team in the league, I wonder if they consider moving Martin for 2 years and change of Chapman.
The Jays acquired Donaldson when he was 29 by trading what everyone thought was the next Jays star and we saw the impact that had. Chapman is only 27 and has been better than Donaldson during their comparative time with the A's. He would hit free agency in 2024 the same age as Springer is now so age shouldn't be a factor in re-signing him (Donaldson was 33 when he was a FA).
I don't think it would be necessary to try and trade for him until after seeing the team perform in 2021 to get a sense of where they are. If the Jays with internal growth and the vets performing as expected look like a top 3-5 team in the league, I wonder if they consider moving Martin for 2 years and change of Chapman.
The Jays acquired Donaldson when he was 29 by trading what everyone thought was the next Jays star and we saw the impact that had. Chapman is only 27 and has been better than Donaldson during their comparative time with the A's. He would hit free agency in 2024 the same age as Springer is now so age shouldn't be a factor in re-signing him (Donaldson was 33 when he was a FA).
Where do much-improved Blue Jays turn next after chaotic 24 hours? - Sportsnet.ca
What interest did the Blue Jays have in Brantley? Would he have been a good fit in Toronto? And, with Brantley off the board, what next?
According to sources, the Blue Jays did have legitimate interest in Brantley. One person said talks had become serious in recent days, with potential deals discussed. Another person predicted that a deal would get completed. But evidently those talks never advanced to the point that a deal was done.
..................
Just as importantly, a deal with Brantley would have necessitated further moves, most likely a trade involving Lourdes Gurriel Jr. or Randal Grichuk (Gurriel Jr., who has three years and $14.7 million remaining on his contract before one final year of arbitration eligibility in 2024, has far more trade value of the two). With Brantley in Houston, those two players can breathe a little easier.
Plus, as one rival executive noted, the Blue Jays’ biggest needs exist on the infield and in the starting rotation. Now, that’s where the Blue Jays’ focus will likely shift in the weeks ahead. In other words, we’re back where we were Wednesday morning. The Blue Jays are, rather suddenly, a much-improved team. The deal-or-no-deal confusion with Brantley didn’t change that.
Yet there’s still work ahead on the infield and in the starting rotation. As their interest in Brantley showed, there’s room to get creative, too. It sets up an interesting few weeks at a time that many intriguing free-agent targets like Andrelton Simmons and Jake Odorizzi are still available.
And while the events of Wednesday might have seemed chaotic, there’s now an opportunity for the Blue Jays to slow down a little if they so choose. With Springer, Yates and Chatwood on the roster, they’ve already improved their team massively. Maybe now they sit back a little and let the market come to them.
What interest did the Blue Jays have in Brantley? Would he have been a good fit in Toronto? And, with Brantley off the board, what next?
According to sources, the Blue Jays did have legitimate interest in Brantley. One person said talks had become serious in recent days, with potential deals discussed. Another person predicted that a deal would get completed. But evidently those talks never advanced to the point that a deal was done.
..................
Just as importantly, a deal with Brantley would have necessitated further moves, most likely a trade involving Lourdes Gurriel Jr. or Randal Grichuk (Gurriel Jr., who has three years and $14.7 million remaining on his contract before one final year of arbitration eligibility in 2024, has far more trade value of the two). With Brantley in Houston, those two players can breathe a little easier.
Plus, as one rival executive noted, the Blue Jays’ biggest needs exist on the infield and in the starting rotation. Now, that’s where the Blue Jays’ focus will likely shift in the weeks ahead. In other words, we’re back where we were Wednesday morning. The Blue Jays are, rather suddenly, a much-improved team. The deal-or-no-deal confusion with Brantley didn’t change that.
Yet there’s still work ahead on the infield and in the starting rotation. As their interest in Brantley showed, there’s room to get creative, too. It sets up an interesting few weeks at a time that many intriguing free-agent targets like Andrelton Simmons and Jake Odorizzi are still available.
And while the events of Wednesday might have seemed chaotic, there’s now an opportunity for the Blue Jays to slow down a little if they so choose. With Springer, Yates and Chatwood on the roster, they’ve already improved their team massively. Maybe now they sit back a little and let the market come to them.
BlueForever75
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That would be a fantastic target. Probably be made available at this years trade deadline if A's are out of it. If not a potential trade next off season.
The Jays do have to monitor how this season goes for some of their prospects especially Groshans and Martin. With the Springer signing, my bet is that Martin gets a lot more reps at 3rd, SS and 2nd this season then the OF. If both Groshans and Martin are deemed ready in the not too distant future getting a 3rd basemen may be a moot point.
The Jays can then focus their financial resources to other areas like SP and BP. The goal ultimately should be grooming our in house prospects to the point we have control over them very cheap while spending dollars in other areas. With Bichette, Guerrero, Biggio, Jansen and Gurriel you have the makings of great young core. Adding Martin and Groshans would be huge with some of the vets like Springer and Hernandez.
Definitely something to keep an eye on over the next 12 months.
TopChedder
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Agreed.
If I were the Jay's I add Bauer, Walker, Hand and I do it asap.
You can make a final move for an infielder after that but the pitching is key.
leafsfan2point0
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Interesting, thank you for the info! If we do make that trade I hope the price isn’t outrageous.
Oskar The Groucho
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I think maybe the plan is to Find a 2B, 3B, and a #2 SP. I wouldn't be surprised if they dangled Cavan Biggio so they could get out from under the Tanner Roark contract. Would Cincinnati do a Grey+Mustokas trade for Biggio+Roark+?
I could see them also going hard after Kolten Wong on a 2-3 year deal easily. If they were serious they would offer him a 3 year deal and make sure to lock up that infield defense long term for the next few years
I could see them also going hard after Kolten Wong on a 2-3 year deal easily. If they were serious they would offer him a 3 year deal and make sure to lock up that infield defense long term for the next few years
BlueForever75
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I agree with Bauer and Walker. But I believe Hand is not a necessity after acquiring both Yates and Chatwood. It would be wasted resources.
From what I am hearing, the Jays are aggressively in talks this afternoon on trades for a SP and INF combo. I have no specifics other then meetings are booked from 130-430 this afternoon and these meetings include Atkins, Shapiro and Montoyo.
From an INF free agent perspective, Im also being told that talks have commenced again with Didi Gregorious. What this means I do not know. Is he being looked at for SS? 2B? or 3B. Not known. But as it was reported last off season the Jays were in heavy talks with Didi camp and at the time Bichette was willing to move off of SS if he was acquired.
Lets see if this leads to anything.
TopChedder
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I can see Hand as a hit of a wasted resource but at the same time you can never have enough pen options, especially if Yates has issues.
I do hope you are right. We NEED starting pitching and a 3rd baseman. If we could get a top line starter, infielder, and a solid 4th starter we would be so set.
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