Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Pt IV | Ah the waiting game sucks, let's play Hungry Hungry Hippos

[BlueForever75]

Taxes also play a big factor

Taxes in New York are not that far off to those paid in Toronto. Very close in proximity.

If your talking a place like Florida or Dallas then yes the taxes are different. But the Jays can easily make up the tax differences in salary offers to FA if their competition is a place like New York, LA or Boston. The taxes in those areas are similar to Toronto.

 

[TopChedder]

Taxes in New York are not that far off to those paid in Toronto. Very close in proximity.

If your talking a place like Florida or Dallas then yes the taxes are different. But the Jays can easily make up the tax differences in salary offers to FA if their competition is a place like New York, LA or Boston. The taxes in those areas are similar to Toronto.

Yep

Taxes are not an issue. These guys have top financial people around them.

 

[dredeye]

Given that he's an American that wants to be close to home, Canada is a negative, as it is for most players.

Toronto is not that far from Connecticut. There aren’t a lot of ball teams all that close.

 

[metafour]

This.

Not to mention having family/friends being able to visit based the stigma that Americans have about getting passports (and to a lesser extent, the effect of having a criminal record).

Exactly. It's the same position, same pay, same luxuries, etc. in both "options". But the one option comes with a bunch of small bullet-points that may be insignificant or minor inconveniences, but why entertain the thought of dealing with them when you don't even have to?

There is a big difference between you playing for a team that's two states over from your hometown vs. playing for Toronto which is in a completely different country. Do your friends and family have passports? Can they even get into Canada? How often can they see you?

The reality is that playing for a Canadian team doesn't really offer any bonuses over what they already experience as professional athletes in the USA. It does, however, present a series of small inconveniences - regardless of how significant they are. The general "perks" that Canada offers like better social programs don't mean shit for a $100-million athlete; these guys aren't low income or homeless and "suffering" in America.

Also, an accountant from Texas isn't going to move to Canada for the same position or pay either. They'll entertain the idea if lets say someone in Canada wants to make them a Partner (ie: big promotion) or something; but no one is moving for the same position or status - why would they? The reality here is that Springer is a starting CF in New York or he's a starting CF in Toronto. It's the same thing essentially. What we DO see is: the Blue Jays pay 'X' free agent a sum of money more than the best US offer thats enough to make them make the move. Or, the Blue Jays can offer more playing time at a position they prefer or more playing time in general. Stuff like that will move the needle.

 

[dredeye]

Taxes in New York are not that far off to those paid in Toronto. Very close in proximity.

If your talking a place like Florida or Dallas then yes the taxes are different. But the Jays can easily make up the tax differences in salary offers to FA if their competition is a place like New York, LA or Boston. The taxes in those areas are similar to Toronto.

They also only pay taxes for the days they live and work in Toronto. If their permanent home is in say Florida that is where they pay most of their taxes

 

[dredeye]

From Taijuan's Fangraph's chat:

"I feel like the Blue Jays are pretty far ahead of the game with all the technology, all the data, and the way they set it up. They’re really prepared. Pete Walker is amazing. I wish I’d have had more time to work on stuff with him."

It’s interesting to see a player praise a staff like that. The unfortunate is that statement makes it sound like he’s for sure not coming back. He only wished he could have worked with Pete longer

 

[dredeye]

Imagine landing all 3?! That would be insane. I guess they could afford to because then they could move out salary attached to guys like Jansen. Jansen plus Roark to a team needing a catcher. Or Jansen, Grichuk and Roark off to a team for cap space.

Jansen can also stay on as the backup catcher depending on who we add elsewhere. He is an asset we can retain if we wanted

 

[Greek_physique]

Jansen can also stay on as the backup catcher depending on who we add elsewhere. He is an asset we can retain if we wanted

Wouldn't that impact his trade value? I can see him adding value if we could still use him as a hitter (DH) but he wouldn't even do that regularly.

 

[Gargyn]

Harassment and criminal harassment isn't the same thing though. If I sent you a text message every morning, afternoon, and evening saying hi, I'm harassing you. But I'm not criminally harassing you. One is just annoyance, the other is, well, a crime. Although generally after a couple of days, one would figure out "hey, they don't actually wanna talk to me".

I’ve already stated that. Criminal harassment has to prove a level of fear. That is all I am saying. Otherwise it’s just an annoying person. So yes I agree. But you earlier said a person doesn’t have to have fear and I was just saying for it to be considered criminal, yea the person does need to have fear. Anyways I don’t need to comment anymore. I need to know the code in and out for my job so I’m not going to argue about anything.

 

[Gargyn]

Jansen can also stay on as the backup catcher depending on who we add elsewhere. He is an asset we can retain if we wanted

Yes he could. With Moreno coming along I think he will be a stud. Kirk could also be backup and provide a better bat off the bench.

 

[BlueForever75]

Jansen can also stay on as the backup catcher depending on who we add elsewhere. He is an asset we can retain if we wanted

I would think that a team would be interested in a young catcher like Jansen that already has starting experience. He has value.

And I would think the Jays would rather keep as a backup someone like McGuire and prospect like Kirk or Moreno for future.

For the purposes of salary structure and other holes to plug I can see Jansen being dealt. I called it 2 weeks ago when rumors came out the Contreras was on the block in Chicago. If hes dealt, I can the Jays calling the Cubs for a deal around Bryant and Jansen being the principle pieces. Obviously there will be more to the deal. But the Cubs would have a need for a catcher.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Jansen can also stay on as the backup catcher depending on who we add elsewhere. He is an asset we can retain if we wanted

His value decreases if we hold onto him as a backup catcher. Doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Swervin81]

Yes, the lack of success and the Canada factor are like 90% of the equation, if not more.

The Jays fare better than the Raps on the Canada side since at least you're only here for the summer.

Agreed. That said, this offseason, the Canada issue has been replaced by a far worse issue... total uncertainty and basically being homeless right now because of COVID. Anyone's guess as to where we even start next season.

 

[BlueForever75]

His value decreases if we hold onto him as a backup catcher. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Agreed.

No point in keeping a young, starting experience, catcher as a backup when you have other holes to be filled and you have filled your starting catcher position for large money with Realmuto. McGuire is a quality backup, can be great defensively, still young and has some pop in his bat.

 

[Gargyn]

Agreed.

No point in keeping a young, starting experience, catcher as a backup when you have other holes to be filled and you have filled your starting catcher position for large money with Realmuto. McGuire is a quality backup, can be great defensively, still young and has some pop in his bat.

Lol pop in his bat. Not sure if that’s a reference to his parking lot incident but it made me laugh.

 

[BlueForever75]

Lol pop in his bat. Not sure if that’s a reference to his parking lot incident but it made me laugh.

He has shown the ability to contribute other then in the front seat of his car. Lol

Seriously speaking there are worse catchers in the league that are backups. I wouldnt categorize McGuire as one of them.

 

[BlueForever75]

This wont go away. I just dont see how they sign both Springer and Brantley with the 3 OFers we already have. Buster has lineup all out to lunch with what he suggests. If they sign both, Tellez and one of existing OF would need to be dealt. Not enough room and flexibility in lineup otherwise.

 

[theaub]

There's four DH's in that lineup

 

[Discoverer]

There's four DH's in that lineup

Heh, yeah. The only way the whole Springer/Brantley combo thing makes sense is if they move one of Gurriel or Teoscar for pitching.

 

[Hoverhand]

View attachment 385835

This wont go away. I just dont see how they sign both Springer and Brantley with the 3 OFers we already have. Buster has lineup all out to lunch with what he suggests. If they sign both, Tellez and one of existing OF would need to be dealt. Not enough room and flexibility in lineup otherwise.

I mean it goes without saying that they would shed Grichuk. Buster doesn't include Grichuk in his tweet, to his credit.

You are handcuffing yourself a little bit by not dealing Tellez in this situation but nothing you can't survive. That lineup has 5 players that can play the OF and 4 multi-position infielders. Ideally you get a defensive first centre-fielder on the bench (Keirmaier? Please.), and a utility infielder with experience on the corners and you're pretty well good to go.

EDIT: Brantley was actually a positive dWar player over the past couple years, he's not exactly your ideal corner outfielder but you can absolutely win with him as an everyday player in the field.

 

[Greek_physique]

Brantley works because you aren't expecting him to be one of your top 4 players....having him as a 5-7 is a great fit for this team.

 

[ItalianLeaf]

These guys are regular people and Canada is a foreign country. It might seem stupid to you, but if the money is comparable, would you want to move to a foreign country when you don't have to? That's kind of the main thing here: comfort with what you know, versus the uncertainty of a foreign country. Most people are going to choose what they already know as opposed to what they don't know, especially in this scenario wherein these guys are all millionaires and already living like kings: why go do that in a foreign country when you have the exact same things and live under the exact same luxury in your own country? Moving to Canada presents unnecessary inconveniences for them that they can avoid entirely by taking the same deal in their own country.

The same "stigmas" that these guys have about Canada is reiterated by your average Canadian person's "stigmas" about US cities. Most people who complain about US born players not wanting to move to Canada don't understand that. Ask your average Canadian about the thought of moving to America and they'd tell you things like "you can't even go to the doctor or get medical treatment!", "there's racists everywhere!", etc, etc. regardless of the fact that it's pretty much the same shit in both countries.

Its because of bagged milk. I swear!

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[BlueForever75]

There's four DH's in that lineup

I agree. They are better suited in acquiring Springer and Realmuto.

CF- Springer
3B- Bryant
SS- Bichette
C- Realmuto
1B- Guerrero Jr
LF- Gurriel
RF- Hernandez
DH- Tellez
2B - Biggio

This lineup is dependent on acquiring Bryant from the Cubs for combination of Jansen, Grichuk, Roark and prospects.

 

[AllDay28]

Imagine going all in and then having your top pitchers miss starts for a 6th starter. Woof.