Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Pt IV | Ah the waiting game sucks, let's play Hungry Hungry Hippos

[Discoverer]

I meant if we lost somebody because we spent more elsewhere.

Or you could have 30 million and not have Springer and be worse, but you still have your 30 million to add smaller pieces that will not move the needle as much as Springer would have.

All because you wanted an extra 5 million.

Or you negotiate and find some common ground and sign him for $27.5 million per year. Regardless, the only thing I think anyone is pushing back against is your initial comment that if he's the guy you want you should just give him what he's asking for. There are so many other factors.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

A perfect gamble opportunity. The Jays dont have a lot on their books this year even if they pull the trigger on Springer.

Overpay him and maybe you get a top of the rotation arm.

Would be nice if we could dump Roark and bring in Kluber for possibly less lol

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I think Springer gets done for 140 over 5.

 

[TopChedder]

Or you negotiate and find some common ground and sign him for $27.5 million per year. Regardless, the only thing I think anyone is pushing back against is your initial comment that if he's the guy you want you should just give him what he's asking for. There are so many other factors.

I mainly just said that out of frustration with no context.

I get what you are saying. Fiscal responsibility is important. What a players worth needs to be calculated into the team needs going forward, and league economics.

But sometimes spend that extra 5 million.

 

[BlueForever75]

Would be nice if we could dump Roark and bring in Kluber for possibly less lol

Would be nice to add Kluber. Sounds like hes betting on himself. Which in return should make a signing team feel good about an offer to him.

Do the Jays simply tell Kluber camp to come to them before they accept any one year deal and they just beat it? I would especially for a pitcher that is betting on himself.

 

[TopChedder]

I think Springer gets done for 140 over 5.

Eventually he needs to sign.

Camps are coming and he will need to get accustomed to a new city and team.

 

[Canada4Gold]

FWIW I really want them to get Springer and will be upset if they don't. I'd be ok with a small overpay to get it done because he's such a great fit and I think we're in a spot where we can afford it, especially if that money is up front. But we're only in that position because of past smart decisions to not go overboard. I'm prepared to lose value on a Springer deal, and I can definitely see him falling off enough that whatever contract he gets will hurt. But I think it's a risk that's worth it. I can also accept if management disagrees as long as there's another plan in the works. A slightly bad deal on a useful player is better than not spending money available. In the short term anyway. The long term also plays a clear factor too obvious,y

I don't feel the same way about any of the other free agents. I'm hopeful we could get Bauer but not willing to overpay.

 

[TopChedder]

FWIW I really want them to get Springer and will be upset if they don't. I'd be ok with a small overpay to get it done because he's such a great fit and I think we're in a spot where we can afford it, especially if that money is up front. But we're only in that position because of past smart decisions to not go overboard. I'm prepared to lose value on a Springer deal, and I can definitely see him falling off enough that whatever contract he gets will hurt. But I think it's a risk that's worth it. I can also accept if management disagrees as long as there's another plan in the works. A slightly bad deal on a useful player is better than not spending money available. In the short term anyway. The long term also plays a clear factor too obvious,y

I don't feel the same way about any of the other free agents. I'm hopeful we could get Bauer but not willing to overpay.

Well said.

Bauer seems like a very large overpay.

 

[BlueForever75]

Ok here's a hypothetical, you have to overpay on term and dollars. Who do you overpay for? Springer or Realmuto? Based on bettering your team overall.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Ok here's a hypothetical, you have to overpay on term and dollars. Who do you overpay for? Springer or Realmuto? Based on bettering your team overall.

Springer.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I'm also not a fan of Jackie Bradley Jr so I don't love the secondary option.

 

[BlueForever75]

Springer.

Springer upgrades one position. Realmuto upgrades two.

Overall Realmuto plays a more important position with rare capabilities.

What is your reasoning for that?

 

[TopChedder]

Ok here's a hypothetical, you have to overpay on term and dollars. Who do you overpay for? Springer or Realmuto? Based on bettering your team overall.

I would say Springer as we have Kirk & Jansen (plus another young prospect but I can't remember the name) I like having strength in center field.

I also find catchers have a shorter shelf life health wise. Springer we could move to the corners.

Both are close in age (29 & 31) but looking at Springer in the playoffs does it for me.

Having the best catcher in baseball is appealing though and is a very premium position.

 

[dredeye]

The vast majority of people were more upset at Edwin for completely whiffing on his market projections and signing a worse deal elsewhere. Although there was some frustration that they moved so quickly to sign his replacement for 3/30 who couldn't play the field and hadn't been a 3 war player since 2009.

As for Price, Shapiro/Atkins did not make an offer to retain his services iirc. Which I do believe fans had a right to be upset about.

The final thing here is that if the Jays had of made just one of these mistakes their salary situation would not have been out of sorts whatsoever, especially not enough to the point where Rogers lets them lose their young talent over it.

I don’t know why anyone would be upset about the Jays not making price an offer. When they talk to his agent and he says he wants 7 years and 200+ million if the jays aren’t interested at those prices why would they make an offer. What’s the point of making an offer of 7/150 when you know he’s over 50 million away from your best offer. It makes no sense to waste anyone’s time

 

[BlueForever75]

I'm also not a fan of Jackie Bradley Jr so I don't love the secondary option.

What if we didnt sign Bradley Jr we sign Ozuna instead and rotated existing OF with DH spot? With Realmuto in everyday lineup, and Jansen included in a deal to acquire either SP or Bryant to play 3rd

 

[phillipmike]

 

[dredeye]

A perfect gamble opportunity. The Jays dont have a lot on their books this year even if they pull the trigger on Springer.

Overpay him and maybe you get a top of the rotation arm.

I hate to say it but if he’s talking to the yanks we likely aren’t getting him

 

[BlueForever75]

I would say Springer as we have Kirk & Jansen (plus another young prospect but I can't remember the name) I like having strength in center field.

I also find catchers have a shorter shelf life health wise. Springer we could move to the corners.

Both are close in age (29 & 31) but looking at Springer in the playoffs does it for me.

Having the best catcher in baseball is appealing though and is a very premium position.

But having the best at his position in Realmuto plus including Jansen in a deal to upgrade SP or 3rd adds more bang for dollars spent then just signing Springer.

 

[BlueForever75]

I hate to say it but if he’s talking to the yanks we likely aren’t getting him

Could be right. But still available so we can hold out hope. The wildcard is Shapiro and Atkins which Yankees dont have. History there.

 

[TopChedder]

But having the best at his position in Realmuto plus including Jansen in a deal to upgrade SP or 3rd adds more bang for dollars spent then just signing Springer.

Yep.

I was also thinking that. It does allow you more baseball currency so to speak.

I think a person can't go wrong with either of them but being able to deal from a position of strength afterward is great.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Springer upgrades one position. Realmuto upgrades two.

Overall Realmuto plays a more important position with rare capabilities.

What is your reasoning for that?

Springer is a far more impact bat to add to our lineup. I am also not comfortable with this assumption of their being this big trade market to flip Jansen for a top pitcher. I am extremely comfortable letting our young catchers grow into their position in our lineup while adding a top tier CF that can be easily transitioned to a corner when he shows he needs to be moved.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[TopChedder]

I hate to say it but if he’s talking to the yanks we likely aren’t getting him

Agreed.

Especially if it's a "show me what you got" year for him.

 

[BlueForever75]

Springer is a far more impact bat to add to our lineup. I am also not comfortable with this assumption of their being this big trade market to flip Jansen for a top pitcher. I am extremely comfortable letting our young catchers grow into their position in our lineup while adding a top tier CF that can be easily transitioned to a corner when he shows he needs to be moved.

I feel better flipping Jansen then I do Grichuk!!! And that would be the player to deal if Springer is added. More can be added with Jansen as bait than Grichuk.

 

[dredeye]

Agreed.

Especially if it's a "show me what you got" year for him.

I will add that us not having a strong defensive team in a hitter friendly division doesn’t help trying to sign a pitcher to a show me contract. It’s a hard sell in that regards getting someone like him.