Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Pt III | Winter meetings are over. Still waiting for stuff to happen

[Man Bear Pig]

These guys don't strike me as reactionary. They are very patient or at least have been up to this point.

Yup. And I dont think it'd be a shock if we came away with one of the big free agents along with Lindor and Carrasco in a trade. It's just not going to happen right away.

 

[IceColdBear]

I have no problems if we add two of the second tier FA's, and keep building smartly and patiently around our young guys.

Vlad and Pearson are the keys to this team taking the next step imo. If their potential is real, this team will be scary even without major additions.

It does suck to be in a division with the Yankees and Rays right now, though.

It probably wasn't smart PR for Ross to have been talking so much about big game hunting early in the off-season, it might set up some fans to be disappointed if they "only" add a few good players instead of great players.

 

[The Nemesis]

I have no problems if we add two of the second tier FA's, and keep building smartly and patiently around our young guys.

Vlad and Pearson are the keys to this team taking the next step imo. If their potential is real, this team will be scary even without major additions.

It does suck to be in a division with the Yankees and Rays right now, though.

It probably wasn't smart PR for Ross to have been talking so much about big game hunting early in the off-season, it might set up some fans to be disappointed if they "only" add a few good players instead of great players.

To be fair, fans are usually disappointed regardless.

If he does what he does, then he gets chastised for his non-results so far like what is actually happening.

If he says nothing about their FA plans then he probably gets raked over the coals by fans who see him as indifferent to or uncaring for improving the team

If he says that the team will try but doesn't expect anything to happen, people will rip him for being pessimistic and defeatist and blame that for the lack of acquisitions because he didn't "want it" bad enough

If he says that they're going to be prudent and responsible with their off-season budgets, then "rabble rabble rabble Rogers is cheap"

Basically there was nothing management could say that wouldn't result in a vocal segment of the fanbase loudly and angrily complaining about how things have unfolded because that vocal segment of the fanbase largely exists primarily to complain about how things are unfolding in any situation short of him striding up to a podium and announcing that the team acquired Lindor for Roark, McGuire, and 3 C-tier prospects most people have never heard of.


Side note: This is not me saying that complaining about management is wrong in any scenario. Just that the reality is that there's a segment of the fanbase that will complain regardless of whether or not it's just or unjust and that pretty much nothing short of an unmitigated heist of a move is going to placate them enough to not complain about it. The last time the fanbase saw something and didn't complain one iota about it was probably the Marlins deal. Which I highlight irrespective of the eventual results of the players acquired/given up and am merely evaluating at the time of the trade.

 

[Scion]

To be fair, fans are usually disappointed regardless.

If he does what he does, then he gets chastised for his non-results so far like what is actually happening.

If he says nothing about their FA plans then he probably gets raked over the coals by fans who see him as indifferent to or uncaring for improving the team

If he says that the team will try but doesn't expect anything to happen, people will rip him for being pessimistic and defeatist and blame that for the lack of acquisitions because he didn't "want it" bad enough

If he says that they're going to be prudent and responsible with their off-season budgets, then "rabble rabble rabble Rogers is cheap"

Basically there was nothing management could say that wouldn't result in a vocal segment of the fanbase loudly and angrily complaining about how things have unfolded because that vocal segment of the fanbase largely exists primarily to complain about how things are unfolding in any situation short of him striding up to a podium and announcing that the team acquired Lindor for Roark, McGuire, and 3 C-tier prospects most people have never heard of.


Side note: This is not me saying that complaining about management is wrong in any scenario. Just that the reality is that there's a segment of the fanbase that will complain regardless of whether or not it's just or unjust and that pretty much nothing short of an unmitigated heist of a move is going to placate them enough to not complain about it. The last time the fanbase saw something and didn't complain one iota about it was probably the Marlins deal. Which I highlight irrespective of the eventual results of the players acquired/given up and am merely evaluating at the time of the trade.

No need to add a disclaimer, you are 100% correct. The last page of posts proves your point. No big free agents have signed and yet several posters are already complaining that the Jays won't sign any top FA and are only being used to drive up the price.

 

[Gargyn]

No need to add a disclaimer, you are 100% correct. The last page of posts proves your point. No big free agents have signed and yet several posters are already complaining that the Jays won't sign any top FA and are only being used to drive up the price.

I wouldn’t fault Atkins anyways. They’re out there trying to improve the team and trying to add elite players. I’ve got no doubt that the Jays have the best offers out there for Springer, Lemahieu and Bauer. Maybe even Realmuto. These guys unfortunately don’t have the same excitement to play for the Jays. I’m so certain the Jays are just being used to drive up the price or term for the teams that these guys would prefer to play for. It just sucks that the Jays can’t attract the elite guys unless it’s overpayment. I’m holding on to a bit of hope because trades will deplete the system but I think the only way this off season to add elite players will be via trade. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[Discoverer]

Yeah, why would we think the Jays will add any of the top players? They haven't successfully added an elite free agent since *checks notes* December of 2019.

 

[BAM]

The Jays will grossly overpay for one of them, especially after all the chest puffing Shapiro and Atkins have done this offseason. I think we get Realmuto, Walker and they trade for Lindor.

And what evidence is there to suggest that?

They signed Ryu to a deal that is typical for an ace. What overpayments have there been since the young core has been up with the big club? Or even going back to when the FO first took over.

 

[smitty10]

Anyone watching this special on MLB Network about the Expos?

Would be great to see them back in the Majors. Hope Tampa ends up heading there.

 

[Kurtz]

All teams lost a boatload of money last season. Given the early botched rollout of the vaccine in the US, it seems likely that teams won't be able to have full stadiums by summer, which means they'll lose tons of money again. Add the fact that MLB will be competing with the Olympics and Euro Cup this summer - and no doubt much of the ad spend will be directed away from MLB and towards those two sports, and you're in an even bigger jam.

So are the top free agents using us to up their price? Off course - that's how free agency works. But it's simply an undeniable fact that we have a boatload of money to spend, and our management explicitly stated that they want to spend it. No other team, other than perhaps the Mets, has the capacity to spend as much under the circumstances. So in my view, it is very unlikely that we end up going 0/4 on the superstar free agents, and then strike out on Lindor on top of that.

 

[phillipmike]

21 predictions for the Blue Jays in 2021 - TSN.ca

Pretty much agree with all of them.

 

[Gargyn]

All teams lost a boatload of money last season. Given the early botched rollout of the vaccine in the US, it seems likely that teams won't be able to have full stadiums by summer, which means they'll lose tons of money again. Add the fact that MLB will be competing with the Olympics and Euro Cup this summer - and no doubt much of the ad spend will be directed away from MLB and towards those two sports, and you're in an even bigger jam.

So are the top free agents using us to up their price? Off course - that's how free agency works. But it's simply an undeniable fact that we have a boatload of money to spend, and our management explicitly stated that they want to spend it. No other team, other than perhaps the Mets, has the capacity to spend as much under the circumstances. So in my view, it is very unlikely that we end up going 0/4 on the superstar free agents, and then strike out on Lindor on top of that.

I’m sticking with us going 0-4. Springer to the Mets, Lemahieu to the Yankees. Realmuto to the Phillies. Bauer to the Angels. But I do believe we can land Lindor.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[smitty10]

I’m sticking with us going 0-4. Springer to the Mets, Lemahieu to the Yankees. Realmuto to the Phillies. Bauer to the Angels. But I do believe we can land Lindor.

As much as I'd like one of these guys and Lindor, I feel like we'll end up with a larger trade centered around Lindor and one or two more impact players from trade.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

To be fair, fans are usually disappointed regardless.

If he does what he does, then he gets chastised for his non-results so far like what is actually happening.

If he says nothing about their FA plans then he probably gets raked over the coals by fans who see him as indifferent to or uncaring for improving the team

If he says that the team will try but doesn't expect anything to happen, people will rip him for being pessimistic and defeatist and blame that for the lack of acquisitions because he didn't "want it" bad enough

If he says that they're going to be prudent and responsible with their off-season budgets, then "rabble rabble rabble Rogers is cheap"

Basically there was nothing management could say that wouldn't result in a vocal segment of the fanbase loudly and angrily complaining about how things have unfolded because that vocal segment of the fanbase largely exists primarily to complain about how things are unfolding in any situation short of him striding up to a podium and announcing that the team acquired Lindor for Roark, McGuire, and 3 C-tier prospects most people have never heard of.


Side note: This is not me saying that complaining about management is wrong in any scenario. Just that the reality is that there's a segment of the fanbase that will complain regardless of whether or not it's just or unjust and that pretty much nothing short of an unmitigated heist of a move is going to placate them enough to not complain about it. The last time the fanbase saw something and didn't complain one iota about it was probably the Marlins deal. Which I highlight irrespective of the eventual results of the players acquired/given up and am merely evaluating at the time of the trade.

They could have and should have just kept they’re cards close and his mouth shut. They talked a big game and fans have reasonable expectations based on what was said.

 

[The Nemesis]

They could have and should have just kept they’re cards close and his mouth shut. They talked a big game and fans have reasonable expectations based on what was said.

And if they had said nothing the fans would've been whinging "When are the Jays going to do anything? I guess they're just content to sit free agency out again and not show any interest in anyone." because they would absolutely interpret the silence as indifference.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

And if they had said nothing the fans would've been whinging "When are the Jays going to do anything? I guess they're just content to sit free agency out again and not show any interest in anyone." because they would absolutely interpret the silence as indifference.

I remember the 2017 season around here when posters were chastised for criticizing the first few weeks of the season, then first two months, then 90 games in... and a handful of posters here herp derped about how it’s early and the people criticizing were just bandwagoners and overly cynical... didn’t know what they were taking about... blah blah

Yeah, no ones signed yet, but for anyone to suggest people being cynical about our chances to land these massive FAs are crazy is off base

 

[dredeye]

I’m sticking with us going 0-4. Springer to the Mets, Lemahieu to the Yankees. Realmuto to the Phillies. Bauer to the Angels. But I do believe we can land Lindor.

Apparently the Dodgers are jumping in on Lemahieu.

 

[Discoverer]

They could have and should have just kept they’re cards close and his mouth shut. They talked a big game and fans have reasonable expectations based on what was said.

Things like signing Springer and Bauer and trading for Lindor are not reasonable expectations based on what they said. A lot of people have gotten carried away.

They could add Turner and trade for Musgrove and add a couple good relievers and they would have 100% lived up to what they said they were going to do. But a lot of people would still be really disappointed and claim they didn't meet expectations.

Also... I know I keep harping on this, but they added one of the best free agents available literally last offseason. The idea that they somehow can't and shouldn't be expected to sign one this offseason is pure cynicism.

 

[weems]

On the pitching side of things, if we can somehow aquire Castillo without giving up Martin or SWR I'd be all for it.

I dont know that much about the analytics but he seems like a really good pitcher.

 

[Discoverer]

On the pitching side of things, if we can somehow aquire Castillo without giving up Martin or SWR I'd be all for it.

I dont know that much about the analytics but he seems like a really good pitcher.

I would love Castillo, but it would probably take one of Martin or Groshans as a starting point, or at the very least a couple of guys from the SWR/Martinez/Kirk/Moreno tier.

It wouldn't be cheap.

 

[phillipmike]

Who needs Bauer? We got someone similar making a lot less.

 

[phillipmike]

Prospecto del béisbol Jeison Martínez abandona Cuba con el sueño de llegar a Grandes Ligas

Baseball prospect Jeison Martínez leaves Cuba with dreams of making it to the Major Leagues

Martinez is expected to become a free agent in the near future and be eligible for Major League Baseball (MLB) in the 2020-2021 international signing period, which will begin on January 15.

He is a multi-tool player that MLB organizations find themselves valuing today. He stands out for his contact with the three bands, plus speed, versatility, arm and glove, since he dominates the shortstop and second base, in addition to the third base.

"He is very similar to José Ramírez (now Cleveland's Dominican star) in his early days," said a scout who preferred to remain anonymous.

The same evaluator refers that among Cuban players, Jeison is a kind of Andy Ibáñez, an infielder who signed in 2015 for $ 1.5 million with the Texas Rangers, among other things because of the versatility and dominance of various positions, as well as his high capacity. to produce extra bases.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Prospecto del béisbol Jeison Martínez abandona Cuba con el sueño de llegar a Grandes Ligas

I would love to be in on that but we don't have any pool money left for this period. Then again, those cheating Astros always seem to get agreements with guys to wait till the next cycle so maybe we can do the same.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Things like signing Springer and Bauer and trading for Lindor are not reasonable expectations based on what they said. A lot of people have gotten carried away.

They could add Turner and trade for Musgrove and add a couple good relievers and they would have 100% lived up to what they said they were going to do. But a lot of people would still be really disappointed and claim they didn't meet expectations.

Also... I know I keep harping on this, but they added one of the best free agents available literally last offseason. The idea that they somehow can't and shouldn't be expected to sign one this offseason is pure cynicism.

How exactly are they not reasonable expectations?

The inference of your last sentence differs from your first’s sentiment.

And that sentiment about expectations diverges from what you yourself even speak to in their ability to have exceeded ‘expectations’ last offseason, so to make a sweeping statement about unrealistic expectations is purely dismissive of those whose opinions diverge from your own

 

[Discoverer]

How exactly are they not reasonable expectations?

The inference of your last sentence differs from your first’s sentiment.

And that sentiment about expectations diverges from what you yourself even speak to in their ability to have exceeded ‘expectations’ last offseason, so to make a sweeping statement about unrealistic expectations is purely dismissive of those whose opinions diverge from your own

It's never realistic for any team's fans to expect to add three elite players in a single offseason.

And my first and last sentences don't diverge at all. There's a vast array of plausible, realistic scenarios between the over-the-top expectations of "add Springer, Bauer, and Lindor or I'll be disappointed" and the cynicism of "the Jays can't sign any of the top guys".