Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Pt II: It's the off-season in November!... Wait. That's normal for baseball.

[Rude Dog]

I roll my eyes a little when I hear the Jays are involved with every free agent out there. But then I sit back and say good on Shatkins. We all have a friend that hits on everything that moves at the bar, but more times than not he would eventually find a dance partner by last call. The quality of his target may have dwindled, but often they turned out to be a hell of a lot more fun than the hot ones taking selfies all night. Having said that, Lindor just feels like a Jay to me.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Blue Jays Notes: Kim, Ryu, Schwarber, Fiers

• The Jays, Angels, and Yankees all have interest in former Cubs slugger Kyle Schwarber, 670 The Score’s Bruce Levine reports. Schwarber was non-tendered by the Cubs last week following a season that saw him hit only .188/.308/.393 with 11 home runs over 224 PA. Since Schwarber is a defensively-shaky left fielder, he would seem like a curious fit for all three teams, who already have the left field and DH positions accounted for, barring a trade to open up space. Looking at Toronto specifically, there could be room for Schwarber if Vladimir Guerrero Jr. ends up spending more time at third base, though it still seems like something of an imperfect match.
• The Blue Jays also have interest in right-hander Mike Fiers, according to MLB Network’s Jon Morosi (via Twitter). Fiers posted a 4.58 ERA, 2.31 K/BB rate, and 5.64 K/9 over 59 innings with the Athletics last season. The 35-year-old has been a durable back-of-the-rotation type for much of his career, and would perhaps bring more stability (if not necessarily upside) to a Jays rotation mix that has Ryu in front of Robbie Ray, Ross Stripling, Tanner Roark, and a wealth of younger arms headlined by Nate Pearson

 

[BertCorbeau]

I’ll say it again... the Buffalo/Toronto split will be a tough sell to top free agents. Better to work the trade market IMO.

Nice time to start leaking out the new stadium idea.

If that gets more traction, that will be a selling point for UFAs

 

[Bjindaho]

Here's a thought. Go after two OF (including JBJ) to improve the outfield.

Gurriel, JBJ, Springer would be arguably the best defensive outfield in baseball.

 

[Discoverer]

I roll my eyes a little when I hear the Jays are involved with every free agent out there. But then I sit back and say good on Shatkins. We all have a friend that hits on everything that moves at the bar, but more times than not he would eventually find a dance partner by last call. The quality of his target may have dwindled, but often they turned out to be a hell of a lot more fun than the hot ones taking selfies all night. Having said that, Lindor just feels like a Jay to me.

I mean... this time last year they were busy signing Ryu.

 

[SDig14]

Let's just sign Yoelkis Cespedes in the New Year and dominate international signings as well!

 

[Hoverhand]

The Dodgers?

The net worth of Rogers Communications is higher than that of the Dodgers owner.

That being said it appears my facts may be outdated as Steve Cohen looks to have the highest now.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Blue Jays could be nearing first major move in off-season of possibilities - Sportsnet.ca

While Blue Jays assistant GM Joe Sheehan treaded carefully in describing “momentum” that was “developing” in the market, one agent suggested that the end game might arrive with one of their position-player targets as soon as this week.

If and when that happens, the rest of their off-season plan will come into tighter focus, as at the moment, the combination of varied market options, roster versatility and spending power allow them to “pursue a lot of different potential places to upgrade,” said Sheehan.

“It's not like in a normal year, you might have one hole and the rest of your roster is kind of locked and you're looking for players that can do one specific thing,” he continued. “We’re really fortunate that our roster is flexible and that we can pursue good players in a lot of areas.”

Pursue good players is something the Blue Jays have done, targeting top free agents like George Springer, D.J. LeMahieu, J.T. Realmuto and Trevor Bauer, among others. Ace Hyun-Jin Ryu told Korean broadcaster KBS that he recently had dinner with Ha-Seong Kim at the request of the shortstop posted by the Heroes, which also raised eyebrows.

General manager Ross Atkins, meanwhile, did nothing to quell the ongoing speculation about a trade for star Cleveland shortstop Francisco Lindor during an appearance on MLB Network, saying, “Frankie’s a great player, there’s not a team in baseball that wouldn’t be thinking about how he can complement them.”

“What I’m going to do is just step out of the way and let you guys make some deals for us right now,” Atkins then quipped. “We think the world of the organization. We think the world of Frankie, and we do have some history with him.”

Whatever decisions the Blue Jays make will have far-reaching implications for the franchise’s short and medium term, both in terms of players currently on the roster as well on financial considerations in the years to come.

 

[Woodman19]

Delete

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Am I the only one that isn’t sold on Kim? He seems too much like a pull hitter to me. Like I get Bautista vibes from him, minus the 45+ home run potential. It’s either a double, a home run, or he’s hitting it to the second baseman if he hits it opposite field.

With $75M of free space, you sign Springer for $25M a year for 4 years. Sign Walker for $10M for 3 years. Sign Kim for $8M a year. Flip Grichuk for a prospect and international money. Sign Ozuna for $18-$20M. Sign Bauer with the leftover money for a year. And try to convince Rogers to spend the extra money to make that happen.

Lineup listed by position (RP are not here because there’s too many and unknown until spring training and this is not a pitching order or batting order)

Ryu
Bauer
Walker
Ray
Pearson

Jansen
Tellez
Biggio
Bichette
Guerrero
Hernandez
Springer
Ozuna
Gurriel

Utility guy
Kim
McGuire
Kirk/Fisher/FA/cheap trade guy
some rookie/FA/cheap trade guy

Barring injuries, that looks like a World Series worthy lineup. And if the Jays suck, you can trade people even if you have to eat some salary.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Am I the only one that isn’t sold on Kim? He seems too much like a pull hitter to me. Like I get Bautista vibes from him, minus the 45+ home run potential. It’s either a double, a home run, or he’s hitting it to the second baseman if he hits it opposite field.

With $75M of free space, you sign Springer for $25M a year for 4 years. Sign Walker for $10M for 3 years. Sign Kim for $8M a year. Flip Grichuk for a prospect and international money. Sign Ozuna for $18-$20M. Sign Bauer with the leftover money for a year. And try to convince Rogers to spend the extra money to make that happen.

Lineup listed by position (RP are not here because there’s too many and unknown until spring training and this is not a pitching order or batting order)

Ryu
Bauer
Walker
Ray
Pearson

Jansen
Tellez
Biggio
Bichette
Guerrero
Hernandez
Springer
Ozuna
Gurriel

Utility guy
Kim
McGuire
Kirk/Fisher/FA/cheap trade guy
some rookie/FA/cheap trade guy

Barring injuries, that looks like a World Series worthy lineup. And if the Jays suck, you can trade people even if you have to eat some salary.

I don't think anyone knows what you'll get with Kim. That's the gamble.

 

[Bjindaho]

Based on what I've read, the 3 cases of Kim appear to be Jean Segura-lite (worst), somewhere around Lemahieu value (Steamer projection), and elite (if he adjusts well to MLB pitching).

Given his age, he is like a minor leaguer getting the call with excellent to incredible minor league numbers.

Edit: he's also shown plate discipline like Biggio, Bichette, and Guerrero.

 

[BAM]

Based on what I've read, the 3 cases of Kim appear to be Jean Segura-lite (worst), somewhere around Lemahieu value (Steamer projection), and elite (if he adjusts well to MLB pitching).

Given his age, he is like a minor leaguer getting the call with excellent to incredible minor league numbers.

Edit: he's also shown plate discipline like Biggio, Bichette, and Guerrero.

Except for the fact that a minor league would be making the league minimum and the Jays are going to have to shell out a contract + posting fee just to see if Kim can translate.

Even $ has a limit, if the Jays are spending that amount of money it should be for a player that has proven to succeed at the MLB level. If Vladdy Jr can struggle at the big league level as arguably one of the top hitting prospects of the past 30 years then there's no reason why Kim can't flop.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Except for the fact that a minor league would be making the league minimum and the Jays are going to have to shell out a contract + posting fee just to see if Kim can translate.

Even $ has a limit, if the Jays are spending that amount of money it should be for a player that has proven to succeed at the MLB level. If Vladdy Jr can struggle at the big league level as arguably one of the top hitting prospects of the past 30 years then there's no reason why Kim can't flop.

I mean everyone loves the Gurriel contract now but when it was signed they were guaranteeing millions of dollars to a player who never touched American baseball. The only way you get those great value contracts is by taking on some risk at the front end. If it was a sure thing it would be a hell of a lot more expensive. In my mind if you evaluate him and think at the very least his defense can play at the major league level then your worst case scenario is you are paying a bit to much for a utility guy. For the prospective upside that is worth the risk to me.

 

[Bjindaho]

Except for the fact that a minor league would be making the league minimum and the Jays are going to have to shell out a contract + posting fee just to see if Kim can translate.

Even $ has a limit, if the Jays are spending that amount of money it should be for a player that has proven to succeed at the MLB level. If Vladdy Jr can struggle at the big league level as arguably one of the top hitting prospects of the past 30 years then there's no reason why Kim can't flop.

Fangraphs think he's the 8th best free agent (given the risks). He could sign for somewhere between 8-12M per year which means a posting fee of 7.625-10.875M on a 5 year deal.

 

[supermann_98]

Nice time to start leaking out the new stadium idea.

If that gets more traction, that will be a selling point for UFAs

Not really, a new stadium won’t be ready for 2-3 years at least, and if they demolish the dome to build the new stadium? Get ready for a whole season or two playing in a temporary facility, or in Buffalo

 

[BlueForever75]

If the Jays are willing to spend 75 million in off season then they will need to over pay to acquire within the FA market. That being said, they should sign players from behind the plate outwards like they did when they first signed Martin. Do what ever it takes to sign Realmuto. If McCann is heading to the NYM, your main competition for him is who exactly? Philadelphia is in sell mode, NYY have already stated that they cannot add to payroll. So who exactly is your opposition for him? They should sign him to a 4yr/100 million contract. This leaves you 50 million left to work with and give you players to dangle in a proposed Lindor deal which should be the next order of business.

You call up the Indians and start building a deal. You do what ever it takes to extract both Lindor and Carrasco from their team. Propose a deal of Jansen, Manoah, Lopez and Roark. This deal gives Cleveland a young catcher to start and build around, Jays 5th and 13th prospects, and a serviceable starter with one year left on his deal as opposed to 2 with Carrasco at same price to put in their rotation this year. With this deal the Jays add another 18 million when you subtract Jansen contract going the other way. Carrasco and Roark contracts are a wash. This leaves you 32 million in cap space.

This is where they should get creative. Signing players that give them flexibility with their lineup. Signing a player like Turner to man the hot corner or even play 1B and DH a little would be wise. He's an upgrade on Shaw immediately and makes your lineup better. Giving him 2yrs/22 million should get it done. We are now down to 21 million.

Now go sign an OF that has some risk to it but if it works out you are golden. Dahl should be signed. We should release Fisher and bring Dahl in. Sign him to a a 1yr plus a team option for a second on a contract for 6 million total. 2 million for the guaranteed year 4 million for the team option. This brings us to 19 million.

Now go out and sign a utility player that can play anywhere. Someone like Forsyth, Galvis, Holt or Nunez. Good on defense, vet and can play multiple positions INF and OF. I would target Holt on a cheap deal. Same type of deal as Dahl. A prove it deal after a down season. Brings you to 17 million.

We need another starter that can be dependable in the mid to lower part of rotation. Eat innings. Sign Paxton to a 1yr- 10 million deal. Brings you to 7 million.

At this point I dont spend anything more on team and save funds for in season trades and deadline. If anything I just put another 3 million or so toward the bullpen. Bring back Cole, and Bass. Or someone else. This leaves you 4 million.

Lineup

SS-Lindor
2B-Bichette
C-Realmuto
1B/3B- Guerrero
DH-Hernandez
LF-Gurriel
1B/3B-Turner
RF-Grichuk
CF-Biggio

Bench: McGuire, Dahl, Holt, Espinal, Tellez, Davis

Starting rotation

Ryu
Carrasco
Pearson
Paxton
Ray

Depth: Stripling, Hatch, Thornton

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Except for the fact that a minor league would be making the league minimum and the Jays are going to have to shell out a contract + posting fee just to see if Kim can translate.

Even $ has a limit, if the Jays are spending that amount of money it should be for a player that has proven to succeed at the MLB level. If Vladdy Jr can struggle at the big league level as arguably one of the top hitting prospects of the past 30 years then there's no reason why Kim can't flop.

Kim can at least fall back on his defense and be a super utility type of player. Vladdy? Hes very limited. Let's be real here; Vladdy is a hitter and nothing more. You'll take anything you can get from him defensively. He could be the best hitter in the game one day but at best, he'll be an average defender at 3rd. He is what he is. Kim is a solid gamble. The guy is only 25 years old. I'm not sure the bat ever translates but I think we could at least get some sort of Biggio lite out of him.

 

[Discoverer]

Except for the fact that a minor league would be making the league minimum and the Jays are going to have to shell out a contract + posting fee just to see if Kim can translate.

Even $ has a limit, if the Jays are spending that amount of money it should be for a player that has proven to succeed at the MLB level. If Vladdy Jr can struggle at the big league level as arguably one of the top hitting prospects of the past 30 years then there's no reason why Kim can't flop.

Of course there's a chance he could flop... but teams pay millions of dollars to acquire far lesser prospects with far worse track records than Kim.

MLBTR predicts he'll get what amounts to a little under $10 million per year, including the posting fee. That kind of money on the free agent market generally gets you a solid, dependable player with limited upside: guys like Tanner Roark, or other free agents predicted in that range this year like James McCann, Jackie Bradley Jr, Garrett Richards, and Joc Pederson. They're going to get much shorter deals (1-3 years instead of 5-ish), but they're also not 25 years old.

I'll take the riskier player with a ton of upside, please.

 

[Leafin]

Let's just sign Yoelkis Cespedes in the New Year and dominate international signings as well!

Is there any new news on him?

 

[Animal]

If the Jays are willing to spend 75 million in off season then they will need to over pay to acquire within the FA market. That being said, they should sign players from behind the plate outwards like they did when they first signed Martin. Do what ever it takes to sign Realmuto. If McCann is heading to the NYM, your main competition for him is who exactly? Philadelphia is in sell mode, NYY have already stated that they cannot add to payroll. So who exactly is your opposition for him? They should sign him to a 4yr/100 million contract. This leaves you 50 million left to work with and give you players to dangle in a proposed Lindor deal which should be the next order of business.

You call up the Indians and start building a deal. You do what ever it takes to extract both Lindor and Carrasco from their team. Propose a deal of Jansen, Manoah, Lopez and Roark. This deal gives Cleveland a young catcher to start and build around, Jays 5th and 13th prospects, and a serviceable starter with one year left on his deal as opposed to 2 with Carrasco at same price to put in their rotation this year. With this deal the Jays add another 18 million when you subtract Jansen contract going the other way. Carrasco and Roark contracts are a wash. This leaves you 32 million in cap space.

This is where they should get creative. Signing players that give them flexibility with their lineup. Signing a player like Turner to man the hot corner or even play 1B and DH a little would be wise. He's an upgrade on Shaw immediately and makes your lineup better. Giving him 2yrs/22 million should get it done. We are now down to 21 million.

Now go sign an OF that has some risk to it but if it works out you are golden. Dahl should be signed. We should release Fisher and bring Dahl in. Sign him to a a 1yr plus a team option for a second on a contract for 6 million total. 2 million for the guaranteed year 4 million for the team option. This brings us to 19 million.

Now go out and sign a utility player that can play anywhere. Someone like Forsyth, Galvis, Holt or Nunez. Good on defense, vet and can play multiple positions INF and OF. I would target Holt on a cheap deal. Same type of deal as Dahl. A prove it deal after a down season. Brings you to 17 million.

We need another starter that can be dependable in the mid to lower part of rotation. Eat innings. Sign Paxton to a 1yr- 10 million deal. Brings you to 7 million.

At this point I dont spend anything more on team and save funds for in season trades and deadline. If anything I just put another 3 million or so toward the bullpen. Bring back Cole, and Bass. Or someone else. This leaves you 4 million.

Lineup

SS-Lindor
2B-Bichette
C-Realmuto
1B/3B- Guerrero
DH-Hernandez
LF-Gurriel
1B/3B-Turner
RF-Grichuk
CF-Biggio

Bench: McGuire, Dahl, Holt, Espinal, Tellez, Davis

Starting rotation

Ryu
Carrasco
Pearson
Paxton
Ray

Depth: Stripling, Hatch, Thornton

this would be a scary team. Only thing I'd say is that I think we would have to give up more for Lindor + Carrasco, especially since we'd be dumping Roark on them.

 

[Jozay]

 

[stickty111]

So here is something wierd, I had a dresm that we signed King Felix.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[Woodman19]

So here is something wierd, I had a dresm that we signed King Felix.

I think I would call that a nightmare.