Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Pt II: It's the off-season in November!... Wait. That's normal for baseball.

[phillipmike]

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Biggio or Lemahieu would be at 2nd and the other at 3rd.

I was more speaking towards not upsetting Vladdy. The guy seems like hes been working at getting back to 3rd base all off-season.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

That's a shame if true. Would be a great fit. Next best is Brantley.

 

[phillipmike]

Final Predictions for 2020 Winter Meetings' Top Free-Agent Signings, Trades

Blue Jays Acquire Jean Segura

Chris O'Meara/Associated Press
The Blue Jays might as well be the belle of the hot-stove ball.
Toronto has never been the biggest spender—Vernon Wells' $126 million 2006 extension notwithstanding—and the Blue Jays could get the short end of the stick bidding against big-market teams.
Still, the Blue Jays have a strong farm system.
Murray reported the Blue Jays are among the teams inquiring about Philadelphia Phillies infielder Jean Segura, who makes a ton of sense for Toronto if it misses out on the top names.
Segura can play shortstop or second base. He ranked in the 99th percentile—or 11th among all second basemen—in outs above average last season, per Baseball Savant. The Blue Jays could move Cavan Biggio to third base to replace Travis Shaw, whom they non-tendered.
Plus, Segura, 30, hits for average at a consistently high level. He had at least 150 hits every year from 2016 to 2019, leading the NL in '16 with 203 base knocks. Segura's walk ratealso went up in 2020, and he can steal bases.
He is owed $28.5 million over the next two years, per Spotrac, with a $17 million club option in 2023.
That might seem expensive, depending on how much money LeMahieu gets this winter. But considering Segura plays multiple positions, makes consistent contact and can run, it's a reasonable rate.
Even if the Phillies hope to contend this year, they could look to move Segura's money. Toronto might also be open to signing someone like Kolten Wong in free agency, but Segura offers more offense than Wong and his career 97 OPS+.
This could open a lane for the Blue Jays to harness their farm and make a deal that works for both sides.

Toronto Signs a Pair of Tier 2 Starters

Charles Rex Arbogast/Associated Press
Forget all the noise: Toronto's primary concern is how best to address the starting rotation.
Hyun Jin Ryu was brilliant in 2020, going 5-2 with a 2.69 ERA in 12 starts while finishing third in the AL Cy Young voting. He also posted 1.9 fWAR. As for the rest of Toronto's rotation? They combined for 0.7 fWAR, and 0.5 of that came from Taijuan Walker, whom the team acquired at the trade deadline.
Speaking of Walker, the guess here is the Blue Jays re-sign him. The 28-year-old was terrific in six starts with Toronto, posting a 1.37 ERA.
Walker had a higher walk rate and WHIP than he did with the Seattle Mariners earlier in the year, but he also kept the homers down and picked up strikeouts at a slightly higher rate. He has pretty strong career numbers (3.84 ERA) for someone who isn't generating a ton of buzz.
On the other hand, Odorizzi is generating plenty of interest. Olney reported last month the Blue Jays were among a number of teams kicking the tires on the 30-year-old right-hander, who is coming off an injury-riddled campaign.
He made just four starts last year but made his first All-Star team in 2019 while posting a 3.51 ERA in 30 starts and notching a career-high 10.1 strikeouts per nine innings. Like Walker, Odorizzi is still young, and Olney reported his "pitch profile" is making him an attractive target.
Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins told Sportsnet's Tim and Sid last week he talks with Excel agency on a weekly basis, which represents both Walker and Odorizzi.
Toronto might be thinking big in terms of signing someone such as Springer or LeMahieu. But there are other ways to plug those holes while nabbing a pair of productive starting pitchers to satisfy the team's biggest need.

Not the big offseason we are hoping for but I’m not against it.

Roark and/or Grichuk would have to go back in the Segura deal for me to think about it.

Ryu
Pearson
Ray
Odorizzi
Walker

would be a solid rotation.

 

[TopChedder]

I hate to say it but I don't see us signing any of the big names.

 

[Bjindaho]

I was more speaking towards not upsetting Vladdy. The guy seems like hes been working at getting back to 3rd base all off-season.

Funny how upsetting Bo over a permanent move away from short (which he is decent defensively) gets lost on these boards.

Lemahieu would play 3rd if Vlad can't and 2nd if he can. Biggio would play 2nd if Lemahieu plays 3rd but more likely rover.

 

[Bjindaho]

Personally, I'm intrigued with Ha-Seong Kim. Projections put him around 120wRC. If he could also play 2nd, this would be a huge no brainer, but a kid who plays short and third, is 25, and who provides some flexibility is a huge win for me.

People keep talking about getting rid of Grichuk, but imo, we need 2 of to do that (so Teoscar isn't playing out there every day). That could be Bradley and Na though.

The thing àbout the international players is that I still make my offers even if we sign Springer and Lemahieu because they would still provide value.

One of the biggest differences between this front office and previous ones is the premium they place on depth.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Funny how upsetting Bo over a permanent move away from short (which he is decent defensively) gets lost on these boards.

Lemahieu would play 3rd if Vlad can't and 2nd if he can. Biggio would play 2nd if Lemahieu plays 3rd but more likely rover.

Bichette could play just about any position and do it well. Vladdy is stuck to 3rd and default 1st base/DH. There's flexibility with Bichette, there isnt much with Guerrero. I was alluding to the fact that Guerrero has been working to get back to becoming a 3rd basemen. Bichette could play anywhere. He doesn't need to drop 50 lbs to worry about playing a significant position.

 

[Bjindaho]

Bichette could play just about any position and do it well. Vladdy is stuck to 3rd and default 1st base/DH. There's flexibility with Bichette, there isnt much with Guerrero. I was alluding to the fact that Guerrero has been working to get back to becoming a 3rd basemen. Bichette could play anywhere. He doesn't need to drop 50 lbs to worry about playing a significant position.

My point is that we are assuming that Bo is open to switching positions.

 

[SDig14]

 

[Petes]

 

[SDig14]

My point is that we are assuming that Bo is open to switching positions.

We are assuming that because he has said as much and insiders have said as much if it means landing a star player.

He basically said he doesn't want to platoon as he wants to play same position every day and knows he can be a SS long term. But he would move if it meant upgrading and getting a star to win a championship.

 

[Leafin]

I think I like the idea of signing Kim more than moving prospects and roster players for Lindor.

Kim is likely not nearly as good but probably an adequate upgrade on a Shaw. While we get to use that nearly 30 mill(-Kim money)it would cost to resign Lindor on starting pitching.

 

[Bjindaho]

I think I like the idea of signing Kim more than moving prospects and roster players for Lindor.

Kim is likely not nearly as good but probably an adequate upgrade on a Shaw. While we get to use that nearly 30 mill(-Kim money)it would cost to resign Lindor on starting pitching.

Zips has him at 3.8WAR next year. Fangraphs projects 8m per year.

Hypothetically, Lemahieu plus Kim might cost the same as Lindor.

 

[Cor]

He’ll yeah

 

[SDig14]

I'd definitely be intrigued if we could both Kim and DJ, improves our too of the order offense and infield defense. The casualty is likely Biggio has to play a little bit everywhere this year unless Kim struggles.

 

[weems]

 

[Bjindaho]

I think everyone here thinks highly of him too. The debate isn't whether we should be interested, but how we value the pieces we might have to give up.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

I think everyone here thinks highly of him too. The debate isn't whether we should be interested, but how we value the pieces we might have to give up.

i personally am not all that enamored by him. I do remember him providing electricity in the playoffs, however his stat lines arent really all that impressive. i will admit im ignorant when it comes to his performance, anyone want to sell me on why hes worth giving up a top end guy like Lordes? Arent there guys in free agency that we can target without giving up assets

 

[Discoverer]

i personally am not all that enamored by him. I do remember him providing electricity in the playoffs, however his stat lines arent really all that impressive. i will admit im ignorant when it comes to his performance, anyone want to sell me on why hes worth giving up a top end guy like Lordes? Arent there guys in free agency that we can target without giving up assets

I don't support giving up Gurriel in a Lindor trade, but since coming into the league in 2015, Lindor is 3rd in baseball in fWAR. He's been a well above average hitter and an elite defender at SS. He's the kind of guy you build a team around.

 

[Bjindaho]

If Lindor makes 30M, and is worth 5.5 WAR per season, he'd be worth approximately 19.5M above his contract per year.

Gurriel at 3 WAR is worth 24M per year.

I fully expect Gurriel to enter FanGraphs' most valuable of 2021 board.

 

[BlueForever75]

I don't support giving up Gurriel in a Lindor trade, but since coming into the league in 2015, Lindor is 3rd in baseball in fWAR. He's been a well above average hitter and an elite defender at SS. He's the kind of guy you build a team around.

I agree. Lindor at the cost of Gurriel is a no brainer. But what is more intriguing is that if they indeed make a trade for Lindor that includes Gurriel they definitely will be adding another OF through FA to fill in for the Gurriel loss.

I feel that Springer is a pipe dream, but I do believe a player like Bradley or Brantley can be signed.

So the question is, is Lindor, Bichette and one of Bradley or Brantley better then Bichette and Gurriel? I would say it is, its a no brainer.

 

[Discoverer]

I agree. Lindor at the cost of Gurriel is a no brainer. But what is more intriguing is that if they indeed make a trade for Lindor that includes Gurriel they definitely will be adding another OF through FA to fill in for the Gurriel loss.

I feel that Springer is a pipe dream, but I do believe a player like Bradley or Brantley can be signed.

So the question is, is Lindor, Bichette and one of Bradley or Brantley better then Bichette and Gurriel? I would say it is, its a no brainer.

Are we just pretending that in the "Bichette and Gurriel" scenario they don't spend the ~$35 million you're giving to the other guys in the "Lindor, Bichette and one of Bradley or Brantley" scenario?

 

[Bjindaho]

Are we just pretending that in the "Bichette and Gurriel" scenario they don't spend the ~$35 million you're giving to the other guys in the "Lindor, Bichette and one of Bradley or Brantley" scenario?

That's Lemahieu plus Walker potentially

 

[Animal]

I'm a bit nervous about this offseason...getting linked to all these big names, I'm worried we strike out and then overpay a couple of guys like Brantley and Happ, or make a trade built around Gurriel for Lindor and get better but way more expensive