Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Pt II: It's the off-season in November!... Wait. That's normal for baseball.

[BlueForever75]

Alrighty then. Sign Realmuto. Then Gurriel+Jansen+Tellez+Groshans for Carrasco and Lindor. Vlad stays at 1B, Bo takes 2b and Biggio takes 3b. Kirk is our primary DH/backup C. Sign an OF and a high leverage relief arm, and we're all done.

I think your package for Carrasco and Lindor is off!!! 3 young possible everyday players going one way? In your scenario only one of Gurriel or Jansen would be needed with another prospect added to the mix.

 

[Kurtz]

Including Gurriel, Jansen and Groshans? Ramirez better be coming back in that deal too.

Good players are getting non tendered. Good players are getting traded for very little. Cleveland would love to get rid of salary, i doubt we have to give up Jansen and Groshans to get a 34 year old Carassco added to Lindor.

Fair enough, knock Groshans down to Martinez/Hiraldo.

 

[Woodman19]

Biggio doesn't have the arm for 3B

 

[phillipmike]

Fair enough, knock Groshans down to Martinez/Hiraldo.

Thats still a lot for me. I like Carassco but with his price tag, injury history and commitment i dont see the value in adding a top prospect(s). Especially when the free agent market has yet to pick up. You could get someone like or almost as good Carassco for just money.

It would have to be an extremely soft deal for me;

Like Lindor and Carassco for Guriel, McGuire, Espinal and say Smith or Fisher.

 

[phillipmike]

Report: Jays, Pirates explored Musgrove-Kirk trade during summer

The Pittsburgh Pirates and Toronto Blue Jays discussed a deal prior to the trade deadline in August that right-hander Joe Musgrove would have headlined, according to Shi Davidi of Sportsnet.

The Pirates reportedly wanted Toronto's top catching prospect Alejandro Kirk as the centerpiece in their return.

 

[Kurtz]

I would say that's pretty serious overkill on the value going to Cleveland in that deal (maybe swap Jansen out for McGuire or Groshans for a lesser prospect or something), but I like it as an overall strategy and I think it makes a lot more sense than Gurriel for Lindor straight up.

If we get Realmuto though, Jansen would have to be traded. Playing 30 games/year as a backup would hurt his development and value. I like Mcguire/Kirk as our backup options in that case.

 

[phillipmike]

If we get Realmuto though, Jansen would have to be traded. Playing 30 games/year as a backup would hurt his development and value. I like Mcguire/Kirk as our backup options in that case.

Jansen has the pedigree to be a big piece for a player like Snell, not Carassco in my eyes.

 

[TopChedder]

I am seeing a lot of trades on here for Lindor and I am wondering why we would give up so much?

I look to the Betts trade (who is a better player) and what it took to move him. I don't think we should be giving up so much at all. Everytime I see a Jay's trade for another player we are always giving up more (and paying more) than all other teams.

 

[BlueForever75]

Jansen has the pedigree to be a big piece for a player like Snell, not Carassco in my eyes.

In the scenario that we sign Realmuto then the trade to make with Cleveland is Jansen, Hatch, Groshans, Fisher FOR Carrasco, Lindor.

The Jays keep Gurriel as they should and they get a top of rotation starter along with Lindor.

To get Snell it will take a hell of alot more then Jansen and some bit pieces. The Jays cannot afford to make 2 blockbusters and deplete their farm system. Wouldnt be wise.

 

[Kurtz]

I am seeing a lot of trades on here for Lindor and I am wondering why we would give up so much?

I look to the Betts trade (who is a better player) and what it took to move him. I don't think we should be giving up so much at all. Everytime I see a Jay's trade for another player we are always giving up more (and paying more) than all other teams.

Verdugo was more valuable than Gurriel though. 3.5 years younger (last year) and 2 extra years of control.

 

[Bjindaho]

Verdugo was more valuable than Gurriel though. 3.5 years younger (last year) and 2 extra years of control.

Verdugo and Gurriel are FA the same year, but Verdugo is likely to make bigger money due to no long term deal.

Also, 2.5 years.

 

[Discoverer]

Verdugo was more valuable than Gurriel though. 3.5 years younger (last year) and 2 extra years of control.

Pretty sure it's one extra year, as Verdugo had five years of control and I think Gurriel has a year of arbitration left when his contract ends. And I think Gurriel's somewhat longer track record and Verdugo's "makeup" questions balance that out enough to call them approximately even.

 

[Discoverer]

If we get Realmuto though, Jansen would have to be traded. Playing 30 games/year as a backup would hurt his development and value. I like Mcguire/Kirk as our backup options in that case.

Yeah, in your scenario my thinking was more along the lines of: include McGuire as a secondary piece in a trade like the Cleveland one you propose, use Jansen as the main piece in a different trade, go ahead with Realmuto and Kirk on the MLB roster, sign a veteran placeholder as a third catcher who can join Adams in AAA.

 

[SDig14]

The domino that started it all...

 

[Bjindaho]

The domino that started it all...

25 yo with 2 options left

 

[habamillions]

The domino that started it all...

Apparently he has a plus fastball and a decent slider but doesnt have command. Pete walker maybe can help him?

 

[Kurtz]

Verdugo and Gurriel are FA the same year, but Verdugo is likely to make bigger money due to no long term deal.

Also, 2.5 years.

Dude...last year. When Verdugo was traded last year, he was 3.5 younger than Gurriel today, and had an extra control year (not 2, fair enough).

 

[Kurtz]

Pretty sure it's one extra year, as Verdugo had five years of control and I think Gurriel has a year of arbitration left when his contract ends. And I think Gurriel's somewhat longer track record and Verdugo's "makeup" questions balance that out enough to call them approximately even.

Fair enough on the one extra year. Not sure I'd agree on Verdugo/Gurriel being equal to be honest, but even if they are...are people forgetting that Boston also got Jeter Downs in the deal, who is currently their #1 prospect?

 

[Bjindaho]

Fair enough on the one extra year. Not sure I'd agree on Verdugo/Gurriel being equal to be honest, but even if they are...are people forgetting that Boston also got Jeter Downs in the deal, who is currently their #1 prospect?

That's not really fair though.

Downs was a 45+ on fangraphs last year and Verdugo was a 50.

Toronto's equivalent would be Kirk/Manoah and SWR/Orelvis

 

[Kurtz]

That's not really fair though.

Downs was a 45+ on fangraphs last year and Verdugo was a 50.

Toronto's equivalent would be Kirk/Manoah and SWR/Orelvis

Clearly, Sox/Dodgers have better and more up to date scouting reports than we do via Fangraphs, so Sox would have likely known they were getting two studs even if the public did not.

 

[phillipmike]

We trading a reliever or 2 somewhere?

 

[Cloned]

We trading a reliever or 2 somewhere?

The new AJ Cole.

 

[Zanks]

That's not really fair though.

Downs was a 45+ on fangraphs last year and Verdugo was a 50.

Toronto's equivalent would be Kirk/Manoah and SWR/Orelvis

If we could trade Orelvis and Kirk and get back Lindor and the equivalent of a payed down David Price, that's a decent trade I can get behind. Who fits that bill on Cleveland tho? Maybe we throw in Jimenez (a 40FV) and get back Carrasco as the Price alternative?

 

[Discoverer]

Fair enough on the one extra year. Not sure I'd agree on Verdugo/Gurriel being equal to be honest, but even if they are...are people forgetting that Boston also got Jeter Downs in the deal, who is currently their #1 prospect?

Yeah, but I'm not really arguing about the value of the deal - I'm not opposed to trading prospects who would be close in value to a Verdugo/Downs package. I just don't like including Gurriel because I don't think it makes sense for the Jays.

 

[hoc123]

We trading a reliever or 2 somewhere?

Maybe but I wouldn't count on it, teams always make these types of moves for possible relief pitchers.