Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 14th: Who is bigger, Dickey or Johnson?

[Stats01]

No one is saying we cant draft and develop any more guys. but it will be much harder. No Haliday to trade, different draft rules, and less supplemental picks coming.

It's easy to trade stars for high end prospects, we've done that. Time to move on from that stage and develop into a winner which we're trying to do. At the same time being smart and drafting well. I trust AA will be able to do that. Plus we have the #10 pick in June, that will probably be a blue chipper if everything goes well.

 

[Jozay]

Oh also, the Toronto media needs to take lessons from the New York media on how to break a trade step-by-step.

The Mets leaked everything except the random prospects and the extension (which didnt even involve them!)

 

[weems]

Santos should be ready to go for spring training, yes?

We need serious stability back there.

Yep AA said he should be ready to go.

 

[topched]

Oh also, the Toronto media needs to take lessons from the New York media on how to break a trade step-by-step.

Haha its not really the Toronto media's fault.

The credit goes to AA, he runs a tight ship, there were virtually NO leaks in this deal from our side. The first thing we heard confirmed from a TO media member was that Dickey had signed an extension and was in Dunedin.

Wilner said it best on the air the other day... there's nothing you can do as a writer when your contacts inside/near the org don't even have info for you.

All the leaks came out of NY, where obviously the beat writers have connections that the Jays guys dont.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

EDIT: Oops, I misread your post.

Nonetheless, the Jays definitely don't have the best farm system among contenders. Texas has one of, if not the best, farm system in the league. If you give me a list of who you consider contenders, I could probably think of a few more that would be ahead of the Jays.

Agreed, which is why I don't understand "blader" saying we haven't mortgaged any future in this deal....

Further irony from him calling someone else the uneducated fan

 

[Canada4Gold]

AA didn't sell the farm. I could go to our prospect list and give a run down on our current top 10 but I'm sure you've looked it over and made your opinion. How can someone argue with someone who's belief is that AA sold the farm for a CY Young Winner. Let's just forget the fact we still Sanchez, Nolin, Stroman, Osuna, Norris. Yeah we sold the farm..

I'm not saying he did

I'm saying you've been saying that all along, you've been repeating over and over, he's a cy young winner, he's a cy young winner. As if he's worth whatever the mets are will to ask for. It takes 2 to tango, the mets can ask it doesn't mean you have to agree. In this case AA thought it was worth it all the power to him, but the way you've been posting throughout the process it's as if you think he's worth anything and everything

 

[Jozay]

Plus, were going to have another nice prospect coming this year anyway.

 

[Bad News Benning]

EDIT: Oops, I misread your post.

Nonetheless, the Jays definitely don't have the best farm system among contenders. Texas has one of, if not the best, farm system in the league. If you give me a list of who you consider contenders, I could probably think of a few more that would be ahead of the Jays.

not sure if Texas is still a top contender. they need to make a move or two.

 

[cyris]

I really don't get thhe condescending tone from many posters in this thread. Were they even there when AA made the big blockbuster with Miami? Everybody in the Jays thread was praising AA, labelling him a genius and nobody cared that they had to give some pretty good prospects because the value was certainly in favor of the Jays and that was an amazing deal.

Some fans only feel that giving up 2 top prospects + a legitimate one for a 38 years old cy young winner + 2 scrubs is overpaying. I feel the same way. I am happy to have Dickey, but I would have prefered to go in the season with already a pretty good rotation, see what this team is about and maybe make a move if needed next offseason to push them to the next level.

But yeah, those who are lukewarm about this trade are just delusional know nothing fans who only care about prospects. Whatever.

Exactly. There is a small group that is trying to paint anyone that doesn't like the price paid or cares about prospects as unintelligent fools.

Everyone is excited about Dickey and the team next season but some of us are just worried about the price.

 

[91Kadri91*]

If you actually read his post you'll realize thats not what he said

Yeah, I edited my post. Thanks for coming out though.

 

[Eyedea]

I would say he has proven he milked the old CBA quite well, we will not be able to draft talent like we did since they closed the loophole on us.

'11 and '12 draft were good for the Jays though, so it's not required for him to use this loophole to acquire said talent and recuperate the system. The '11 draft had a lot of underachievers, so I expect some of the player's values to be a lot higher come next year. Yes, we've lost a catcher that was MLB ready and a top 25 pitching prospect, but I'm positive our guys will gain some serious value next year.

Sanchez
Stroman
Smoral

triple S squad will have some key years next season.

Anderson
Dwight Smith jr
Norris
Dean
Lopes

All can have big years and provide more value to the farm system.

Mitch Nay didn't even play last year, kid can probably shoot up A ball next year with his power.

So much depth, makes the Jays compete for the next 3-4 years, and allows the prospects to develop safely without being called up fast.

 

[Drew311]

Assuming that Nickeas has caught Dickey in the past, this is an insurance policy in the event that Thole gets injured. This is basically a move to ensure Arencibia doesn't have to come anywhere near a knuckleball over the next three years.

 

[91Kadri91*]

I really don't get thhe condescending tone from many posters in this thread. Were they even there when AA made the big blockbuster with Miami? Everybody in the Jays thread was praising AA, labelling him a genius and nobody cared that they had to give some pretty good prospects because the value was certainly in favor of the Jays and that was an amazing deal.

Some fans only feel that giving up 2 top prospects + a legitimate one for a 38 years old cy young winner + 2 scrubs is overpaying. I feel the same way. I am happy to have Dickey, but I would have prefered to go in the season with already a pretty good rotation, see what this team is about and maybe make a move if needed next offseason to push them to the next level.

But yeah, those who are lukewarm about this trade are just delusional know nothing fans who only care about prospects. Whatever.

This. I completely agree.

 

[weems]

I still like the youth we have in the system. Sure its not longer a elite system and moreso middle of the pack but theres lots of potential.

The #10 pick and Franklin Baretto are exciting additions to the top 10.

 

[Animal]

Yeah, I edited my post. Thanks for coming out though.

Thanks for coming out? I just told you to re-read the post, relax

 

[topched]

EDIT: Oops, I misread your post.

Nonetheless, the Jays definitely don't have the best farm system among contenders. Texas has one of, if not the best, farm system in the league. If you give me a list of who you consider contenders, I could probably think of a few more that would be ahead of the Jays.

Tough to say who I would consider contenders... But yeah I still say given all the moves we've made etc.. were probably in the bottom 1/3 of the league... but Id think were near the top amongst contenders.

Let's say:

Texas
LAA
LAD
NYY
SF
CIN
WSH

 

[cyris]

It's easy to trade stars for high end prospects, we've done that. Time to move on from that stage and develop into a winner which we're trying to do. At the same time being smart and drafting well. I trust AA will be able to do that. Plus we have the #10 pick in June, that will probably be a blue chipper if everything goes well.

No one is saying AA cant draft well but many of the tools he used to build our prospect pool wont be avialible anymore. Your talking like rebuilding the farm system will be easy.

 

[Woodman19]

'11 and '12 draft were good for the Jays though, so it's not required for him to use this loophole to acquire said talent and recuperate the system. The '11 draft had a lot of underachievers, so I expect some of the player's values to be a lot higher come next year. Yes, we've lost a catcher that was MLB ready and a top 25 pitching prospect, but I'm positive our guys will gain some serious value next year.

Sanchez
Stroman
Smoral

triple S squad will have some key years next season.

Anderson
Dwight Smith jr
Norris
Dean
Lopes

All can have big years and provide more value to the farm system.

Mitch Nay didn't even play last year, kid can probably shoot up A ball next year with his power.

So much depth, makes the Jays compete for the next 3-4 years, and allows the prospects to develop safely without being called up fast.

Who in the 2011 or 2012 classes have actually shown some good performance thus far? The reason they are still highly thought of is because many have little experience in pro ball and thus are still living off draft day hype.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

I really don't get thhe condescending tone from many posters in this thread. Were they even there when AA made the big blockbuster with Miami? Everybody in the Jays thread was praising AA, labelling him a genius and nobody cared that they had to give some pretty good prospects because the value was certainly in favor of the Jays and that was an amazing deal.

Some fans only feel that giving up 2 top prospects + a legitimate one for a 38 years old cy young winner + 2 scrubs is overpaying. I feel the same way. I am happy to have Dickey, but I would have prefered to go in the season with already a pretty good rotation, see what this team is about and maybe make a move if needed next offseason to push them to the next level.

But yeah, those who are lukewarm about this trade are just delusional know nothing fans who only care about prospects. Whatever.

Welcome to a thread full of some self-praising, megalomaniac regulars. It's a shame isn't it? Can't post an objecting opinion without boundless abject responses.

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

Agreed, which is why I don't understand "blader" saying we haven't mortgaged any future in this deal....

Further irony from him calling someone else the uneducated fan

Way to back up anything you have said

 

[weems]

Welcome to a thread full of some self-praising, megalomaniac regulars. It's a shame isn't it? Can't post an objecting opinion without boundless abject responses.

I dont think its really that bad.....certainly not as bad as the Leafs section.

 

[cyris]

I still like the youth we have in the system. Sure its not longer a elite system and moreso middle of the pack but theres lots of potential.

The #10 pick and Franklin Baretto are exciting additions to the top 10.

We probably aren't even middle of the pack anymore. But we still have alot of good arms and I do trust our scouting system.

 

[Eyedea]

Who in the 2011 or 2012 classes have actually shown some good performance thus far? The reason they are still highly thought of is because many have little experience in pro ball and thus are still living off draft day hype.

I just stated the '11 draft has a lot of underachievers, but in '12 draft Stroman prior to ban was progressing well and DJ was showing he can get on base at a good clip through low ball. Stilson and Lopes are probably the guys that showed the most progression from the '11 draft, and I'm still banking on Norris, Anderson, Smith jr and Dean to improve.

We still haven't seen Smoral pitch or Nay hit yet with their injuries, but I'm fully confident that they'll do well in the low levels.

 

[Stats01]

I'm not saying he did

I'm saying you've been saying that all along, you've been repeating over and over, he's a cy young winner, he's a cy young winner. As if he's worth whatever the mets are will to ask for. It takes 2 to tango, the mets can ask it doesn't mean you have to agree. In this case AA thought it was worth it all the power to him, but the way you've been posting throughout the process it's as if you think he's worth anything and everything

Whether it was too much or not it will be debated all winter. The philosophy of this team has changed. I'm not saying they should just give up anything to get Dickey but I am saying AA saw more value in moving these guys then waiting for them to produce on the Jays while Bautista and Edwin get older. Plus we don't even know how D'Arnaud and Syndergaard are going to be in the majors. So much unknown with them, D'Arnaud has already had two pretty significant injuries in his short pro career.

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

Way to back up anything you have said

What exactly do I need to backup?

Going into the 2012 offseason, who was our top prospect?