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Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 14th: Who is bigger, Dickey or Johnson?

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91Kadri91 said:
I'm sorry, but Bonifacio isn't even an okay hitter.

His career wRC+ is 82, which is pretty putrid. You're right in saying that he's capable of getting on-base, which is important given his skill set, but that still doesn't make him a good, or even average hitter. He's been pretty awful at the plate over his career.

That's not to say that I dislike Bonifacio, I'm actually a pretty big fan. I think he makes a great bench player, as he's very, very fast, and although his infield defense isn't very good, he's fairly solid defensively in the outfield. Saying that, unless you're banking on him having a 2011 season (he had a wRC+ of 109 that year), I wouldn't count on him doing much with the bat. Like you said though, at least he'll get on base at a fairly decent clip, so he's not completely useless up at the plate.
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This exactly.

I'm pleased with the acquisition because of his speed and his excellent eye at the plate, but I wouldn't call him anything more than an 'okay' hitter.

I'm not trying to be critical of the Jays lineup either -it's beautiful, but we've come so far that at this point I'm sure both fans and AA and co. are dissecting every single solitary spot on the roster - and I'm sure that includes Lind.
 
Biggs21 said:
Does anyone have any suggestions for a power bat for the bench? Like what ibanez was for the Yankees last year
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What about Scott Hairston? Career .449 SLG and hit 20 HR in 377 AB last year with a decent .263 batting average. Supposedly looking for 5M/yr over 2 years. Question is whether he'd be okay with being a bench guy or not.

Ibanez is a free agent in his own right, too. At 41, I'm not sure if he'd be a good fit, though.
 
Leafsdude7 said:
They might be decent batters, but I don't think we have a guy there that we can bring up in the 8th for guys like Rasmus or Arencibia when down by 1 and, for example, Lawrie at 1st and Encarnacion at 2nd with 1 out and expect to take the lead with one swing.

Besides, I'd rather keep Bonifacio and Davis on the bench for pinch running over putting them in as pinch batters. I really think we need a bat that can gap it or take it out of the park often on the bench, especially if it forces Cooper/Sierra/Gose back to AAA for some more seasoning.
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Well maybe you could with Cooper. He's posted .300 avg last year.

But even if you can't, you could expect them to get on base and prolong the inning to the next better.
 
HawkeyeCB said:
Oh sweet, I should have known someone would come in with convulted statistic to put him down.

All he needs to do us get on base. Taking a walk is absolutely no different than getting a single.

If he can get on base 33% of the time and swipe 30 bags who the hell cares what else he does. If he gets himself into scoring position, that's all you need from him.
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Sure, that's all he needs to do, and that's all anyone should expect him to do, but that still doesn't make him a good, or even close to average, hitter. Getting on base is only one part of the equation, and being good at that doesn't magically make you good at everything else, too. I wasn't putting him down, either. I said that I'm a pretty big fan. His value lies beyond the plate.

Also, what's a convulted statistic? I assume you mean convoluted?
 
p.l.f. said:
is matt stairs still around?
giambi ?
matsui?
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No, no, and hell no.

If we're going to go with an older, one-year guy, what about Lance Berkman? He is still an FA, though he might just retire. He'd be a decent 1 year bench/DH guy who can play 1B now and then. I'd think he'd want a decent amount, though. He got 20M over a 2 year deal in 2010. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants 8-10M for a single year and he'll retire if he doesn't get it.
 
Mike Napoli would be the perfect guy. But he already signed. he can DH/1b/C
 
91Kadri91 said:
Sure, that's all he needs to do, and that's all anyone should expect him to do, but that still doesn't make him a good, or even close to average, hitter. Getting on base is only one part of the equation, and being good at that doesn't magically make you good at everything else, too. I wasn't putting him down, either. I said that I'm a pretty big fan. His value lies beyond the plate.

Also, what's a convulted statistic? I assume you mean convoluted?
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Obviously. I'm typing on a phone and that's not always easy, lol.

And I guess what qualifies a good hitter or not is just a difference of opinion between us. Obviously you need guys to hit the ball and others with power. But we have that. If a batter doesnt have power, he needs to get on base. So, if a player gets on base 33% of the time, he's a good hitter as far as I'm concerned. And that's what Bonifacio does.

As far as I'm concerned, someone with a .330ish OBP is a valuable hitter. Add in his stolen bases and he's a valuable offensive player.
 
p.l.f. said:
syndegaard looks strong eh

noah-syndergaard.jpg
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Big strong dutch kid.
 
Leafsdude7 said:
Would Jenkins really be ahead of Cecil on the SP chart? :huh:

Also, Bonifacio has more experience as SS than 2B, yet he's only under the latter. :help:
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Jenkins has options and Im pretty sure Cecil doesnt. So they dont want to send him down with the risk of losing him.
 
HawkeyeCB said:
I'd be 100% fine with that depth chart as the starting rotation.

Maybe we also only run with 3 bench bats. We have so many players that can play multiple positions this year that maybe we run with a bench of Bonifacio/Izturis, Davis, Thole.

That way Cooper gets playing time in the minors and we can keep Cecil up.
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It's highly unusual to go with a 13 man bullpen, though. I still think we'll pick up a cheap FA power 4th bat for the bench. It seems like there's a few options there.
 
HawkeyeCB said:
Obviously. I'm typing on a phone and that's not always easy, lol.

And I guess what qualifies a good hitter or not is just a difference of opinion between us. Obviously you need guys to hit the ball and others with power. But we have that. If a batter doesnt have power, he needs to get on base. So, if a player gets on base 33% of the time, he's a good hitter as far as I'm concerned. And that's what Bonifacio does.

As far as I'm concerned, someone with a .330ish OBP is a valuable hitter. Add in his stolen bases and he's a valuable offensive player.
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Uh, no, not necessarily. For me to consider them a good hitter, they have to be, statistically, a good hitter. He's good at getting on base, but he strikes out far too much for someone with no power, he doesn't make a whole lot of contact, which you hope for from someone with no power, and while he gets on base at a decent clip, that doesn't make up for the fact that he literally no power, and he doesn't make very good contact. I use wRC+ to base much of my opinion, because it's the best hitting statistic available to the general public, and it takes far more into account than just power and/or OBP.
 
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Leafsdude7 said:
Would Jenkins really be ahead of Cecil on the SP chart? :huh:

Also, Bonifacio has more experience as SS than 2B, yet he's only under the latter. :help:
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We have reyes, bonifacio won't be playing ss. Bony is fast, and is an asset in the lineup, a 9 stick would make this lineup so dynamic our speed will torment any opponent
 
I've heard some talk of the Jays wanting to talk to Lance Berkman and see what he thinks about being a part time player (1b/dh/bat off the bench). He's obviously wanted to go back to Houston but may be a lot harder now that they signed Pena.
 
pooleboy said:
We have reyes, bonifacio won't be playing ss. Bony is fast, and is an asset in the lineup, a 9 stick would make this lineup so dynamic our speed will torment any opponent
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If Reyes has hamstring troubles then boni is playing SS
 
caribouPINE said:
I've heard some talk of the Jays wanting to talk to Lance Berkman and see what he thinks about being a part time player (1b/dh/bat off the bench). He's obviously wanted to go back to Houston but may be a lot harder now that they signed Pena.
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I'd bet Berkman's going to ask for 8-10M for a year or go coach for Austin. I'd rather have Scott Hairston for 2 years at 5M each if he's willing to see about 50-60 games of action if there are no injuries.

I think that big bench bat is the last thing AA will be pushing for hard, though. I don't think he wants to start the season with Cooper/Sierra/Gose on our bench.
 
HawkeyeCB said:
How many home runs do we need??

We were 6th last year with 198.

Our problem last year was getting guys on base. We ranked 25th with just a .309OBP (also ranked 23rd in BA with just .245). This year I'm hoping we can our team average up in the .260s and our OBP in the .320s.

We don't need more power. We need guys who get on base, so that when we hit those homers we don't have empty bases. Lind hit .345OBP after his recall. Give him a chance with Mottola. His monster season was before Murphy. Murphy wrecked him, I'd Like to see what he does without him.

Reyes - 10-15
Melky - 10-15
Jose - 40-50
Edwin - 30-40
Lind - 20-25
Lawrie - 10-20
Rasmus - 15-25
JP - 20-30
Izturis/Bonifacio - 5
Bench - 10

That's 170 from HRs and that's guessing low. Guessing high brings you 225. I'd guess we finish around the same output as last year.

What's going to win us ball games this year is 1) a far better pitching staff and 2) we have guys who should hopefully be able to get on base when they aren't hitting homeruns.
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Couldn't agree more! Getting on base is key and as you already said, we have addressed our pitching for next year, so time to see what they can do. Adding an extra arm or two to the bulpen can be done during the season (if need be).

With regards to Lind, there is really no point of trading him right now, unless we are just trying to get cap space and/or are offered a decent prospect in return?

His value is at an all-time low and considering how well he did after the last call-up we might as well see what he can do when surrounded by so many quality bats. Its not out of the question that he regains some serious confidence if the jays start the season on a tear.

Bonifacio is a super utility guy who is just too good to give up, if you ask me.
 
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