Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 14th: Who is bigger, Dickey or Johnson?

[Dwight K Schrute]

JJ said he thinks Morrow should be the ace (before Dickey) and said his stuff is nasty, take it from a major leaguer that Morrow is a stud. Id like the rotation to go Morrow Dickey Burehle JJ Romero to make sure teams dont see the same type of pitcher when they play the jays.

That is the perfect order and the one I think they go with if they are all healthy on opening day.

 

[pooleboy]

That is the perfect order and the one I think they go with if they are all healthy on opening day.

yea, morrow is my favourite pitcher but im not biased when i say morrow could be the best pitcher out of the 5, and thats saying a lot because the worst pitcher we got is romero and at worst he is a #3.

 

[Sokil]

Clearly you have never seen him pitch. He is incredibly valuable, end of story.

He had 21 starts last year and in 13 of them gave up 1 or 0 runs. About as dominant as it gets.

I clearly have, he showed some great stuff last year, but great stuff in 120 innings of a season doesn't make him the staff ace. People talk about Dickey being a fluke, but Morrow is the biggest 'fluke' on the staff if that's to be determined by small samples sizes of greatness.

 

[The Nemesis]

Exactly what I said about Nickeas. Makes sense.

I'm sure Arencibia will catch him quite a bit during spring training though just to see if he can handle it.


Was the dome actually shut during that game even? Or does Tampa's dome open?

it doesn't open. It's the only entirely enclosed, 100% indoors stadium left in baseball.

 

[Natey]

I really don't get the condescending tone from many posters in this thread. Were they even there when AA made the big blockbuster with Miami? Everybody in the Jays thread was praising AA, labelling him a genius and nobody cared that they had to give some pretty good prospects because the value was certainly in favor of the Jays and that was an amazing deal.

Some fans only feel that giving up 2 top prospects + a legitimate one for a 38 years old cy young winner + 2 scrubs is overpaying. I feel the same way. I am happy to have Dickey, but I would have prefered to go in the season with already a pretty good rotation, see what this team is about and maybe make a move if needed next offseason to push them to the next level.

But yeah, those who are lukewarm about this trade are just delusional know nothing fans who only care about prospects. Whatever.

Thole is far from a scrub.

it doesn't open. It's the only entirely enclosed, 100% indoors stadium left in baseball.

Thanks!

 

[Urban Explorer*]

Jeff Kent is probably going to be a HoFer. Is anyone complaining about trading him for David Cone? If the jays win the world series I could care less if TDA becomes a hall of famer.

You can't sit back and wait for prospects to develop all the time. Sometimes you have to go for it. With Batista and Edwin probably only around another 5 years or so, it's a good move.

 

[Sokil]

Jeff Kent is probably going to be a HoFer. Is anyone complaining about trading him for David Cone? If the jays win the world series I could care less if TDA becomes a hall of famer.

You can't sit back and wait for prospects to develop all the time. Sometimes you have to go for it. With Batista and Edwin probably only around another 5 years or so, it's a good move.

I'd rather wait for Bautista and Edwin to leave so we can hope other players develop to be as good as them

 

[smitty10]

Dickey
Johnson
Buehrle
Morrow
Romero

Happ, Santos, Janssen, Rogers, Lincoln, Oliver, Delabar, Cecil

Reyes
Cabrera
Bautista
Encarnacion
Lind
Lawrie
Rasmus
Arencibia
Izturis

Bonifacio, Davis, Cooper, Thole

Wow!

 

[Dwight K Schrute]

I clearly have, he showed some great stuff last year, but great stuff in 120 innings of a season doesn't make him the staff ace. People talk about Dickey being a fluke, but Morrow is the biggest 'fluke' on the staff if that's to be determined by small samples sizes of greatness.

From Fangraphs regarding the two seasons prior to his break out last season

"Additionally, each of the last two years, Brandon Morrow has had a Fielding Independent Pitching (also known as FIP, a statistics used to measure how good a pitcher actually is without taking into account the park effects), of over a full run lower than his ERA, as well as an xFIP (similar to FIP but it takes into account the park) of over a full run lower than his ERA."

It is important to look beyond the ERA he had in some seasons before because they strongly suggest he was just getting unlucky.

Morrow is not at all the biggest 'fluke' on the staff. His career ERA is 4.10 which is not at all terrible and in fairness it should be much lower.

Give this a read...
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/sun-will-come-out-for-morrow/

 

[smitty10]

That is the perfect order and the one I think they go with if they are all healthy on opening day.

AA pretty much said that Dickey would be the #1 guy in an interview with Bob McCowen (on Sportsnet.ca).

I think Morrow will be #3/4 in the rotation based on need. Josh Johnson will not be our #4 guy and we aren't going to have a rotation with 3 righties in a row followed by 2 lefties. In order to balance the rotation (deservedly or not) I think that Morrow will find himself in either the 3 or 4 spot; more likely the 4th.

1. Dickey
2. Johnson
3. Buehrle
4. Morrow
5. Romero

 

[Leafssss]

I fail to see why everyone is so concerned about the order of the rotation.

 

[pooleboy]

AA pretty much said that Dickey would be the #1 guy in an interview with Bob McCowen (on Sportsnet.ca).

I think Morrow will be #3/4 in the rotation based on need. Josh Johnson will not be our #4 guy and we aren't going to have a rotation with 3 righties in a row followed by 2 lefties. In order to balance the rotation (deservedly or not) I think that Morrow will find himself in either the 3 or 4 spot; more likely the 4th.

1. Dickey
2. Johnson
3. Buehrle
4. Morrow
5. Romero

it really doesn't matter what the rotation looks like as long as buehrle and romero dont go back to back and dickey is around morrow and johnson. Morrows numbers will soar this year having dickey around him, just based on hitters being so screwed up with looking at knucklers

 

[Chandrashekhar Limit]

I think we should put Dickey between the two power pitchers. So according to my idea, one of Morrow or JJ would have to be our #5 pitcher. I'd love to see this:

Dickey
JJ
Buehrle
Romero
Morrow

Soft - Hard - Soft - Mid - Hard

Morrow's stuff is gonna seem ridiculous followed by a soft tosser, and a semi soft one. There are many different ways you can go with this rotation. Can't really go wrong either way

 

[Stats01]

AA pretty much said that Dickey would be the #1 guy in an interview with Bob McCowen (on Sportsnet.ca).

I think Morrow will be #3/4 in the rotation based on need. Josh Johnson will not be our #4 guy and we aren't going to have a rotation with 3 righties in a row followed by 2 lefties. In order to balance the rotation (deservedly or not) I think that Morrow will find himself in either the 3 or 4 spot; more likely the 4th.

1. Dickey
2. Johnson
3. Buehrle
4. Morrow
5. Romero

Johnson and Morrow are interchangeable IMO, very similar pitchers. It really doesn't matter who's 2 and who's 4, just have to make sure you break up the righties from the lefties. I'm a huge Morrow fan though so..

I'd go with

Dickey
Morrow
Buerhle
Johnson
Romero

 

[pooleboy]

all in all our rotation is very stacked, and on every night the jays have a very serious chance of winning.

edit: im more concerned about who comes in if one person gets hurt. Happ? i know drabek and hutchinson are back mid-season which could help. Injuries happen with every team but imo we have enough depth at every position to sustain winning for an entire season.

 

[Cloned]

Buerhle - soft, L
Morrow - hard, R
Dickey - soft, R
Romero - mid, L
Johnson - hard, R

 

[Shimso]

Pretty sweet to see Bodog putting the Jays as the #1 World Series favourites with 8/1 odds.

Also pretty cool to see RA take a slight discount to play here.

 

[Stats01]

all in all our rotation is very stacked, and on every night the jays have a very serious chance of winning.

edit: im more concerned about who comes in if one person gets hurt. Happ? i know drabek and hutchinson are back mid-season which could help. Injuries happen with every team but imo we have enough depth at every position to sustain winning for an entire season.

Yeah you would have think Happ gets the first call in case of an injury. Thats what makes this trade even better is that it pushes Happ to the BP as a long man. Great depth

 

[krs82]

Dickey
Johnson
Buehrle
Morrow
Romero

Happ, Santos, Janssen, Rogers, Lincoln, Oliver, Delabar, Cecil

Reyes
Cabrera
Bautista
Encarnacion
Lind
Lawrie
Rasmus
Arencibia
Izturis

Bonifacio, Davis, Cooper, Thole

Wow!

think I'd rather have Bonifacio at 2nd over Izturis... but that looks like the team we'll go with. I think at most AA will add something else to the bullpen, I think I heard him say that on Primetime today.
Does anybody have a list of the current FA setup or closers available. I think I heard Soriano is available. Seems like it would be a good addition, espcially if Oliver decides to retire.

 

[Sokil]

Morrow is not at all the biggest 'fluke' on the staff. His career ERA is 4.10 which is not at all terrible and in fairness it should be much lower.

While the FIP stuff is interesting, a 4.1 ERA is not "ace" stuff no matter how you want to skew the numbers in his favor.


Also, his FIP last year was higher than his ERA (3.65)

 

[canucksfan]

4 more months about arguing over the rotation.

 

[Cloned]

4 more months about arguing over the rotation.

I'd rather have this argument than the one about whether Rogers will ever spend money to improve the team, or the one about which one of Hutchison, Cecil, Romero or Drabek will bounce back, or the one about how many solo home runs the team will hit because no one can get on base.

 

[Dwight K Schrute]

While the FIP stuff is interesting, a 4.1 ERA is not "ace" stuff no matter how you want to skew the numbers in his favor.


Also, his FIP last year was higher than his ERA (3.65)

3.65 looks pretty damn good to me--- and FIP is not 'skewing' anything. FIP is just as relevant stat as anything

 

[canucksfan]

I'd rather have this argument than the one about whether Rogers will ever spend money to improve the team, or the one about which one of Hutchison, Cecil, Romero or Drabek will bounce back, or the one about how many solo home runs the team will hit because no one can get on base.

That's a very good point.

 

[danishh]

question:

lind + what gets corey hart? FA 10.333M this year (20% of the brewers current payroll, brewers look to finish 3rd again, maybe 4th if the pirates find a miracle, but in the race for the 2nd wild card. No more greinke and may lose marcum too.)
trending downwards given age, height, moving to 1B full time this year.

and if this is a move you'd want to do, is it something to do before the season or in july?