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Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 14th: Who is bigger, Dickey or Johnson?

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sorry guys, I am confused...heard Dickey signed 2 years at 25 million...now hearing 2 years at 29 plus a third option for 12...if its 15, 14, 12, dont see how thats a wonderful deal i keep hearing about...the 12.5 would be a lot better...can anyone help me out? thanks.
 
redbeard7737 said:
sorry guys, I am confused...heard Dickey signed 2 years at 25 million...now hearing 2 years at 29 plus a third option for 12...if its 15, 14, 12, dont see how thats a wonderful deal i keep hearing about...the 12.5 would be a lot better...can anyone help me out? thanks.
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2013: 5M + 1M signing bonus
2014: 12M
2015: 12M
2016: 12M team option (1M buyout)

I think...not sure about the signing bonus for '13
 
redbeard7737 said:
sorry guys, I am confused...heard Dickey signed 2 years at 25 million...now hearing 2 years at 29 plus a third option for 12...if its 15, 14, 12, dont see how thats a wonderful deal i keep hearing about...the 12.5 would be a lot better...can anyone help me out? thanks.
Click to expand...

Dickey earns $5M in 2013 and was extended for 2 years with a team option for 2016. It's basically $24M over 2014 and 2015, hence $29M over 3 seasons and a $12M option thereafter. It's a ****ing steal for a player of his caliber...though, obviously, that's why you're also giving up Syndergaard in addition to d'Arnaud.
 
NHL33 said:
Dickey earns $5M in 2013 and was extended for 2 years with a team option for 2016. It's basically $24M over 2014 and 2015, hence $29M over 3 seasons and a $12M option thereafter. It's a ****ing steal for a player of his caliber...though, obviously, that's why you're also giving up Syndergaard in addition to d'Arnaud.
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ah ok thanks...that is a good deal then...great!
 
If you go to TSN.CA, it says 'The Blue Jays then signed the pitcher to a two-year contract extension for US$29 million, with a $12-million option for the 2016 season'

doesnt this imply that AFTER this season, he gets the 29 million over 2 years? thats what i dont get...sorry
 
Hope the Dickey's knuckleball will work well in the Rogers centre.

For curiousity, i would want to know the record of Dickey in "indoor" stadium vs "outdoor" stadium.
 
Hannibal said:
Hope the Dickey's knuckleball will work well in the Rogers centre.

For curiousity, i would want to know the record of Dickey in "indoor" stadium vs "outdoor" stadium.
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The rogers centre is open most of the time and from what I read he prefers not to pitch in the cold.
 
Hannibal said:
Hope the Dickey's knuckleball will work well in the Rogers centre.

For curiousity, i would want to know the record of Dickey in "indoor" stadium vs "outdoor" stadium.
Click to expand...

Dickey hasnt pitched much indoors the past 3 seasons but when he has hes basically been lights out.

I forget where I read this but apparently a indoor stadium gives a knuckleball pitcher a better feel for the pitch (something to that effect).
 
odd reason I go with Josh Johnson as opening day starter...

- he is set to get a big payday, make him earn it...he goes number 1, he faces other teams number 1...if he gets you 18 wins as the number 1 man, he deserves the big payday...and he wants the big payday, so he will be pitching with everything he's got...

and you need to go power, finesse, power, finesse, romero...

johnson, dickey, morrow, buehrle, romero
 
Drew311 said:
What I meant is I wouldn't trust Janssen or Santos in Game 7 of the World Series. Our current guys haven't been long term closers, and I want to see a guy with a long track record of being clutch in high pressure situations. This a very important piece to a team who wants to be a World Series contender.

You guys need to relax, I don't get the need to correct and create arguments with everyone that comes on here to throw in their two cents. The know it all attitude in here is really obnoxious.
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1) Nobody like that exists on the market. Hell, very few people like that exist in baseball. How many closers last long enough on one team that has continued success to rack up playoff wins to even qualify for this status? Well, again, except for Brian Wilson, but I don't think buying into a guy who's coming off his 2nd TJ with any kind of real expectations is smart. Especially when the message it sends to the likes of Janssen and Santos is "we don't think you're good enough."

2) The only difference between the guys in #1 and any other closer is that someone gave them the chance to earn that experience. So you take a guy like Santos or Janssen who has shown that they can function as a late-innings guy and you let them ride the success of their team and they become the kind of player that you want to acquire.

3) This also harkens back to the fact that as has been discussed numerous times in the thread, the importance of the closer as the dedicated 9th inning specialist is vastly overrated. Historically, the rate at which teams win games that qualify for a save situation in the 9th is practically constant, dating from now all the way back to the earliest days of the sport in which there was no regular-use bullpen, let alone dedicated 9th inning man. So whether you had the starter pitch the whole game, the best reliever be a "fireman" who came in whenever it was most dire, or have him be saved for the 9th inning because the save stat rules all bullpen performance, not much has changed in terms of how the outcome of a game is decided in the 9th inning.

Of course, this isn't to say that there are guys who crumple with the pressure of certain situations, whether they are legitimate high-leverage outings, or the somewhat manufactured pressure that has been crafted around the closer position. But until such time as they give me reason to think otherwise, neither Santos nor Janssen have done anything to not warrant trust in being the closer.

And BTW, I apologize if I seemed terse. I'm just tired of having the closer argument every few weeks. I know that people don't like having their deeply held views on teh game challenged, but I personally find it most frustrating when mountains of evidence seemingly get ignored simply because it doesn't conform to traditionally held baseball truisms. Even when that "tradition" is as new as the closer role (saves as a concept are about 50 years old, and have been officially scored by MLB for about 40 years. And it's only been since the late 70s/early 80s that the concept of the dedicated 9th-inning, 3 outs only closer has been widly used/accepted) It's nothing personal, nor is it meant to come off as being a know-it-all. I'm just weary of the same arguments over and over and over again without anyone having brought any sort of compelling opposing evidence.
 
Drew311 said:
What I meant is I wouldn't trust Janssen or Santos in Game 7 of the World Series. Our current guys haven't been long term closers, and I want to see a guy with a long track record of being clutch in high pressure situations. This a very important piece to a team who wants to be a World Series contender.
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Curious how many guys out there you'd consider to have "a long track record of being clutch in high pressure situations" - that proven ninth-inning World Series guy.

Because I have to admit, my sense is that's a REALLY short list. More often we see the World Series *make* a closer's reputation, and if they're lucky they live up to that reputation for another season or two before falling back into the pack.

Sergio Romo is a perfect example from the Giants' run this season: he's been a solid set-up man with one of the top K:BB ratios in the league of a couple of years now, but nobody would have said he was "proven" in the sense you suggest. Yet he was lights out for San Francisco.

That's how I think the Jays have positioned themselves: they've got a collection of great arms in the 'pen, any one of whom could step up and be *that guy*.

Janssen's certainly earned the opportunity to close out of the gate - he also happens to be one of my facourite Jays. But if he struggles for stretches I'm confident another guy will step forward. Anthopolous might well like to get an established late-innings arm, but I think it's a luxury at this point. There's depth and quality in the 'pen, and the Jays' run will establish another name or two as "proven" guys, just like 20 years ago.
 
Hannibal said:
Hope the Dickey's knuckleball will work well in the Rogers centre.

For curiousity, i would want to know the record of Dickey in "indoor" stadium vs "outdoor" stadium.
Click to expand...

weems said:
Dickey hasnt pitched much indoors the past 3 seasons but when he has hes basically been lights out.

I forget where I read this but apparently a indoor stadium gives a knuckleball pitcher a better feel for the pitch (something to that effect).
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in a small sample size (last 3 years, or just last year, can't remember) Dickey's ERA in indoor stadiums was 1.79, which is yes, very lights out.
 
Cool Beans Man said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in a small sample size (last 3 years, or just last year, can't remember) Dickey's ERA in indoor stadiums was 1.79, which is yes, very lights out.
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I like the dome open but damn, close that sucker up when he is pitching because I like winning more.
 
I think it's gotta be Dickey on Opening Day. Gotta open with the previous year's Cy Young Award winner. He would receive the award on that night right before the game no?

The place is gonna be electric.
 
Cool Beans Man said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in a small sample size (last 3 years, or just last year, can't remember) Dickey's ERA in indoor stadiums was 1.79, which is yes, very lights out.
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Considering he plays in the NL, and the only teams that have indoor stadiums are Toronto and Tampa who both play in the AL, yes that would be an incredibly small sample size lol
 
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