Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 13th: Report - Dickey extended, trade just pending physicals

[Dwight K Schrute]

Yeah not a bad idea lol, Dickey has to start though IMO.

Dickey
Morrow
Buerhle
Johnson
Romero

opening day our opponent would be baffled facing a knuckleballer, then game 2 facing a power, k machine in Morrow, they could never adjust. Day 3 you go to a lefty with a good chance at the sweep. Day 4 you open up a new series with another ace in Johnson, he is pitching against bottom of the rotation starters,,, (that next series is against B0-sox) Day 5 you have Romero pitching against a #5 pitcher. Our rotation is pretty beast, I admitt that.

Yup I think that looks perfect. Although you might see Morrow and Johnson flipped--- might want to keep him happier for resigning reasons.

 

[dredeye]

Serious question. What if the jays can't get a contract completed with Dickey? I don't see why they couldn't but just to talk about something different for a little bit, who would you realistically pursue using TDA and Noah as the centre piece.

 

[Dwight K Schrute]

Serious question. What if the jays can't get a contract completed with Dickey? I don't see why they couldn't but just to talk about something different for a little bit, who would you realistically pursue using TDA and Noah as the centre piece.

Don't think there is anyone better available. I'd probably go after an elite pitching prospect like bundy if it was possible--- I doubt it though.

 

[Eyedea]

D'Arnaud and Syndergaard will hurt on that front, without a doubt, but the Blue Jays still have a solid catching prospect in A.J. Jimenez, who was at double-A New Hampshire last year before undergoing Tommy John surgery, while Aaron Sanchez, the last of the so called Lansing Big Three still standing, is among a host of promising young arms far from the majors.

That's why Anthopoulos added last month: "I still think we can make more trades involving prospects, and assuming we don't trade everybody, still have a pretty good group of players. We're still going to be active in Latin America going forward, we're still going to have a top draft pick again (No. 10 this year), there are still ways to replenish.

"We built up enough inventory that we could handle one more big trade if we needed to."

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2012/12/16/shi_davidi_on_blue_jays_toronto_building_to_win_now/

 

[dredeye]

Don't think there is anyone better available. I'd probably go after an elite pitching prospect like bundy if it was possible--- I doubt it though.

I think Price could be had with a couple more minor pieces added. Maybe Rasmus as a bigger addition.

 

[Cor]

Let us change the pace a bit here....

Come playoff time (Should we make it) does John Gibbons go with a 4 man rotation? Or do we stick with 5?

 

[Stats01]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2012/12/16/shi_davidi_on_blue_jays_toronto_building_to_win_now/

This has been my whole argument for this trade. (Top #10 pick, staying active with international signings, along with that we still have some very promising kids in the system) the sky is not falling as some would make it out to be.

 

[dredeye]

Let us change the pace a bit here....

Come playoff time (Should we make it) does John Gibbons go with a 4 man rotation? Or do we stick with 5?

I think that depends on how Romero pitches this year. If he's strong we could pretty much count on any one of them to perform. I'd have to say you go with 5. If we ended up in the wild card it wouldn't hurt us as much either as we have a good variety that we could go into the next series with anyone really to start.

 

[LV*]

I'd trade for a legit second baseman, sign Jackson and Wilson.

Johnson, Morrow, Jackson, Buehrle, Romero. The down side being there's only one lefty in the rotation.

 

[dredeye]

This has been my whole argument for this trade. (Top #10 pick, staying active with international signings, along with that we still have some very promising kids in the system) the sky is not falling as some would make it out to be.

So we should overpay because we can always draft again in the future? Your argument is so weak. WE WANT DICKEY. WE DON'T WANT TO OVERPAY FOR DICKEY.

 

[Cor]

I think that depends on how Romero pitches this year. If he's strong we could pretty much count on any one of them to perform. I'd have to say you go with 5. If we ended up in the wild card it wouldn't hurt us as much either as we have a good variety that we could go into the next series with anyone really to start.

My thought as well. I think it all depends on how Romero does during the season.

Too me he is the only real question mark in this rotation. Considering he was our ace just a year ago, that is pretty awesome!

 

[Stats01]

Let us change the pace a bit here....

Come playoff time (Should we make it) does John Gibbons go with a 4 man rotation? Or do we stick with 5?

I think you go with 4. Put Romero in the BP just in case there's a blow out and we need him to eat some innings.

 

[Schenn]

Let us change the pace a bit here....

Come playoff time (Should we make it) does John Gibbons go with a 4 man rotation? Or do we stick with 5?

You'd think depending on Romero's season as well as injuries to other pitchers.

 

[Stats01]

So we should overpay because we can always draft again in the future? Your argument is so weak. WE WANT DICKEY. WE DON'T WANT TO OVERPAY FOR DICKEY.

Who's we? If you have such a problem with it call the Blue Jays and ask for Anthopolous. The deal is basically done, calm the **** down. Just accept it..

You've been making the same point over and over and over again. I get it, you think its an overpayment..Yawn.

 

[dredeye]

I'd trade for a legit second baseman, sign Jackson and Wilson.

Johnson, Morrow, Jackson, Buehrle, Romero. The down side being there's only one lefty in the rotation.

Which one could legitimately be available though?

 

[91Kadri91*]

I'd trade for a legit second baseman, sign Jackson and Wilson.

Johnson, Morrow, Jackson, Buehrle, Romero. The down side being there's only one lefty in the rotation.

No, there's two; Romero and Buehrle.

 

[dredeye]

Who's we? If you have such a problem with it call the Blue Jays and ask for Anthopolous. The deal is basically done, calm the **** down. Just accept it..

The people you continually say relax the sky isn't falling to. Essentially anyone that says it seems like an overpayment for Dickey. Really get over yourself. Just accept it really? Why do I need to calm down again. I'm pretty calm so if I were any more calm I'd likely fall asleep.

 

[weems]

So we should overpay because we can always draft again in the future? Your argument is so weak. WE WANT DICKEY. WE DON'T WANT TO OVERPAY FOR DICKEY.

No I think what he is saying is that we still have talent in the system and many young interesting prospect at the lower levels. Sure we no longer have a elite system but we still have young specs like Gose, Sanchez, Osuna, Norris, Smoral, Stroman, Dj Davis, Tirado, Baretto etc and a #10 overall pick. Some have made it seem like we have totally emptied the system and that simply isnt that case. Our prospect's base biggest strength was prolly its depth and this will most likely shine thru in the upcoming years.

 

[Dwight K Schrute]

Would it be against any rules to keep the dome closed on the days dickey pitches?

 

[Stats01]

The people you continually say relax the sky isn't falling to. Essentially anyone that says it seems like an overpayment for Dickey. Really get over yourself. Just accept it really? Why do I need to calm down again. I'm pretty calm so if I were any more calm I'd likely fall asleep.

Well I guess I just look at things differently then you. I don't expect AA to win every move, thats not how it works. You have to give to get. I can't read AA's mind but I would guess he's in it to win now, which means, he thinks guys like Syndergaard won't be ready by the time Bautista and Edwin are still in their prime. So what does he do he uses some of our depth which we can afford to give up to bolster the big club even further. Do you understand that? You're acting like we just gave away two great prospects for nothing. We took the future and put it towards the now. Our cupboards are still full, AA in that article said they will still be busy with International signings as they've always been. Nothing is going to change with how we do business with scouting and drafting, so wtf is the problem if he overpaid a little to try to get this team into the playoffs for the first time in 20 years. Were you even born when they last made the playoffs?

We haven't even had meaningful games in September for freakin years, and now we overpay a bit and people are just losing their minds. It's quite hilarious.

 

[Felstead]

You know, the more I think about this the more I start to see the plus side to it.

2 days ago I was completely against trading D'Arnaud anywhere and "with stipulations" for anyone. Hearing that Syndergaard could be heading with him to acquire Dickey and NOT recieve one of their top prospects back as well, it was disappointing and pretty scary.

Then I got thinking that R.A Dickey really is not asking for an arm and a leg for a contract extension(which most people do!) he is very reasonable and for an ACE caliber pitcher you would wanna lock him up. Trading for him and having to give up such good potential does make sense due to the fact you can sign him for 3 more years at a rate that nowadays is impossible for a Cy Young winner. So indoing that it gives us more financial flexibility to potentially work out a deal for Johnson who would no doubt be the top pitcher on the market next year and would unquestionably recieve more money than Greinke received this year.

So do I do this deal? The answer is a hard, long thought out Yes. Ace pitcher, fiendly contract. It's like Bautista all over again. Roughly 1 WAR is worth 4 million, we might be paying for the price of 3 WAR instead of 5.

Consider it a steal.

 

[dredeye]

No I think what he is saying is that we still have talent in the system and many young interesting prospect at the lower levels. Sure we no longer have a elite system but we still have young specs like Gose, Sanchez, Osuna, Norris, Smoral, Stroman, Dj Davis, Tirado, Baretto etc and a #10 overall pick. Some have made it seem like we have totally emptied the system and that simply isnt that case. Our prospect's base biggest strength was prolly its depth and this will most likely shine thru in the upcoming years.

No one has said we don't have a deep system though. These are top prospects. There's a pretty big difference. This trade just really seems like an overly steep price. Can we get by without the two? Sure. But that's not the point. Hell I can add to the prospect list DeJong, Gonzales, Smith jr, Cardona, Alford, Stilson, Nolin, Del Rosario etc.

 

[Eyedea]

So we should overpay because we can always draft again in the future? Your argument is so weak. WE WANT DICKEY. WE DON'T WANT TO OVERPAY FOR DICKEY.

That argument is just as weak though. This may seem like AA overpaid, but it also gives us a better chance of making the postseason. Toronto isn't in the rebuilding phase anymore, we're now looking to compete. By doing so AA wants to ensure a winner is sent to the field, which means he has to make trades like these.

The positive through this whole thing is that while we're acquiring MLB talent, we're dealing prospects that can be recuperated through the draft and through international signings. Yes, TDA and Syndergaard hold high value, but so will the other guys in our system once they continue to improve.

What was once a top 3 farm system and a poor MLB team is now a likely 15-20 farm system (that will improve through the upcoming draft guaranteed) and a superb MLB team, what is the problem here?

 

[Nasty Nazem]

No I think what he is saying is that we still have talent in the system and many young interesting prospect at the lower levels. Sure we no longer have a elite system but we still have young specs like Gose, Sanchez, Osuna, Norris, Smoral, Stroman, Dj Davis, Tirado, Baretto etc and a #10 overall pick. Some have made it seem like we have totally emptied the system and that simply isnt that case. Our prospect's base biggest strength was prolly its depth and this will most likely shine thru in the upcoming years.

Gose has technically graduated but sure, I'll give it to you that he is still a prospect. Hutch is too (they both barely graduated). Most of those guys are a LONG way away. Closest to majors out of that group is perhaps Stroman who could make it quick as a reliever but if he was starting, that would probably take some time.

Guys at the lower levels don't hold nearly as much trade value as guys close to majors, upper levels is totally gutted and I don't think we can expect much help from the farm system for the next 2-3 years at least. Hopefully, Jays mix in some college players (specifically some bats please) that might start to push the major league guys.

 

[Stats01]

You know, the more I think about this the more I start to see the plus side to it.

2 days ago I was completely against trading D'Arnaud anywhere and "with stipulations" for anyone. Hearing that Syndergaard could be heading with him to acquire Dickey and NOT recieve one of their top prospects back as well, it was disappointing and pretty scary.

Ten I got thinking that R.A Dickey really is not asking for an arm and a leg for a contract extension(which most people do!) he is very reasonable and for an ACE caliber pitcher you would wanna lock him up. Trading for him and having to give up such good potential does make sense due to the fact you can sign him for 3 more years at a rate that nowadays is impossible for a Cy Young winner. So indoing that it gives us more financial flexibility to potentially work out a deal for Johnson who would no doubt be the top pitcher on the market next year and would unquestionably recieve more money than Greinke received this year.

So do I do this deal? The answer is a hard, long thought out Yes. Ace pitcher, fiendly contract. It's like Bautista all over again. Roughly 1 WAR is worth 4 million, we might be paying for the price of 3 WAR instead of 5.

Consider it a steal.

The thing I think about when I look at this trade is playoff baseball, and Rogers Centre being full all the time again. I really hope this team can get back to the glory days where we focus on the big club and not go mental over losing prospects who have never played a single game and are still in A ball. The raw emotion of some on here over losing a single A pitcher who won't be ready for another 3 years is really funny. So much attachment to minor league systems rather than the big club.