Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 13th: Report - Dickey extended, trade just pending physicals

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Why did we trade our best prospect? This one I don't get personally.

Because they are in win-now mode and just got back a Cy Young winning ace who gives this rotation a unique look. Every night a different kind of pitcher is coming at you. Finess? check. Power? check. Wacky sick knuckleballs? check.

This rotation is sick. Yes, it sucks to lose a tope-end prospect, but that's how it works. Give to get.
 
I speculate that a package of D'Arnaud, Gose, Syndergaard, and Nolin would be close to what Tampa would be looking for, would they not? If you were Friedman and you knew you soon wouldn't be able to afford Price would you not take that package to stay competetive?

I'm not Friedman so I wouldn't know. But do you think we're clear winners if a deal like that were to be accepted?

I don't think we'd be able to retain Josh Johnson, David Price, and eventually Brandon Morrow when he becomes a free agent.
 
Not going to weigh in the David Price "what if" game, nor really comment on the (supposed) price tag associated with this trade. But what I will say is that I agree that getting Thole in the deal makes a lot of sense for the Jays. He's got experience with a hard throwing knuckler, and still puts up better BA/OBP than Arencibia. Depending on how you value Arencibia's slugging on this retooled roster, Thole seems like a reasonable backup/spot-starter.
 
You don't get it. Your whole analysis is based on speculation and fantasy. If you wish to do so, by all means, go ahead. However, using it as a basis for a critique on the reported trade is foolish at best imo.
Can you specifically tell me what im not "getting"? I don't understand what your trying to argue with me about. Obviously i'm basing this on a hypothetical situation. I'm just stating that if we are already dealing D'Arnaud+Syndergaard for Dickey then maybe adding Gose+ could net us Price and i'm pretty sure we would be better off with Price in the long-term than Dickey.
 
So, are older people who win the Cy Young inferior pitchers to younger award winners?

Yes they are.

Old players do not improve. Young players do. You do not see any 50 year Olympians in any sport do you?
 
Can you specifically tell me what im not "getting"? I don't understand what your trying to argue with me about. Obviously i'm basing this on a hypothetical situation. I'm just stating that if we are already dealing D'Arnaud+Syndergaard for Dickey then maybe adding Gose+ could net us Price and i'm pretty sure we would be better off with Price in the long-term than Dickey.

Whole lot of maybes in your statement and nothing concrete. That is my point and what you're not understanding.

Anyways, it's fine.
 
Id rather add a little more to get a younger cy young winner and be able to have him for the foreseeable future and not for the next 3 years.

How many young Cy Young award winners are available? Seriously? Would you have wanted to trade Doc in 2004 or 2005? Of course not
 
I'm not Friedman so I wouldn't know. But do you think we're clear winners if a deal like that were to be accepted?

I don't think we'd be able to retain Josh Johnson, David Price, and eventually Brandon Morrow when he becomes a free agent.
Why wouldn't we? Buehrle's contract expires around the time when Price gets his pay-day and we essentially give the Dickey money+ around 5M to keep Johnson as well. Adding a hypothtical 8 million to Morrow's current contract would probably be the price to resign him. AA and Beeston have stated the payroll can be increased to 150M if needed when the time is right. If we start to win why wouldnt the time be then to up our payroll even further?
 
3-4 years, but it wouldnt be unrealistic to see him stay in our rotation for up to 8 years (or more?). The guy is like a Chris Chelios.

Not to discredit Dickey, but i'm a Red Wing fan and Chelios played way longer than he should have.
 
It's actually our #1 and #2 ranked prospects. But many still see Sanchez as a better prospect than Syndergaard.

Gose is our number 1 prospect in my opinion. I'm going to wager Jays' management feels the same. As for pitching, it's really a crap shoot.
 
Whole lot of maybes in your statement and nothing concrete. That is my point and what you're not understanding.

Anyways, it's fine.
I know its a maybe, i'm not stating it as concrete, I'm just wondering if AA checked in with Friedman before making this deal with Alderson and the Mets.
 
Why wouldn't we? Buehrle's contract expires around the time when Price gets his pay-day and we essentially give the Dickey money+ around 5M to keep Johnson as well. Adding a hypothtical 8 million to Morrow's current contract would probably be the price to resign him. AA and Beeston have stated the payroll can be increased to 150M if needed when the time is right. If we start to win why wouldnt the time be then to up our payroll even further?

I've never heard of a set figure being thrown out by either AA or Beeston so I'm not so sure about that, and Price is already getting his pay-day through his arbitration. Seriously if Dickey is going for d'Arnaud and Syndergaard, I don't even know what Friedman would be asking for in a package to land Price. Maybe AA inquired about him? Seems like that's what he normally does, right? If he's not shy in taking a risk on Dickey, maybe, just maybe, the risk was way to big to acquire Price.
 
Someone brought up earlier the reason why I don't really get this move. We're already probably the second best team in the division on paper, and maybe even as good as the Rays, depending on how much you value starting pitching depth and offense (Rays definitely still better in the former, Jays better in the latter). The Orioles most people still view as probably a one-year wonder while the Yankees are older and have their more valuable pieces (Jeter, ARod, Rivera, etc) appearing to be injury prone now as well, and the Sox flat out suck.

Dickey makes us better, but I don't think he's the difference maker in a match up between the Jays and Rays, either over a whole season or in a short series, at least compared to who would likely be getting that start as the roster sits now. Giving up two of the top 30 prospects in all of baseball (and I don't care what anyone says, the fact is that ranking means they're very much more likely to make a big league splash than not) for a player that might make your team ever so slightly better (speaking in terms of talent vs the main competition, Dickey most likely makes the team much better on paper when comparing the rosters with and without him only) over a very short period of time makes no sense to me in this case.

AFAIC, with the roster and prospects we have right now, we should make the playoffs easily at least 3 or 4 times in the next 10 years. Getting Dickey probably means we make the playoffs the next 2, maybe 3 years, but after that we're really building from the ground up again. I'd rather have a constant replenishing of our pro team every few years from prospects than make a short term go at it.

A very good team over 10 years and possibly longer, which when you consider our current prospect depth and AA's ability to draft and find prospects on the sell low list is highly likely, is better than a slightly better team for 3 years and then potentially a team like the one we've had the last 5 years after (unlike what people seem to be thinking here, it takes 3-5 years to build up a good prospect base, and probably another 2-5 after that for said prospects to solidify a pro roster spot), if not at least no guarantee at how good the team will be, is it not? :help:
 
How many young Cy Young award winners are available? Seriously? Would you have wanted to trade Doc in 2004 or 2005? Of course not

Imagine having 2001-2005 era Doc on this team right now.
 
This is how I'd set up the Rotation.

1. Morrow. Dominant, filthy stuff. Can win any day of the night
2. Dickey. After facing 95mph morrow, they'll be like "lol wtf" while seeing 68 mph dancing knuckleballs
3. Johson...ANNNNNNNND back to the power pitcher
4. Buerhle. Basically a crafty wily veteran
5. Romero. Derp.
 
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