38 years old with 1 year on his contract. Coming from the NL. Throws a knuckler in the dome.
Definitely not as cut and dry as you make it sound.
Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 12th: We don't know Dickey (about any extension. Yet)
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38 years old with 1 year on his contract. Coming from the NL. Throws a knuckler in the dome.
Definitely not as cut and dry as you make it sound.
Hyperglide
Registered User
No, it's not obviously as a lot of posters have disagreed with you. Trading 2 of your top 3 prospects is actually sacrificing a big portion of your farm team. Just cause you have depth in your farm doesn't mean you blow your load on one blockbuster trade. You have to think smart about it and use your assets wisely and manage them well.
So you instantly know what their potential is? Did your 8ball or Crystal Ball tell you that? Can you give me the winning lottery ticket numbers too? Can you let us know if the Jays win a WS in the next 1-3 years (their supposed window)?
And thats exactly what you dont want to do. You want have a deepf arm and good team. Thats what makes a organization better. When one guy leaves, its no biggy, you'll have a prospect ready to come in take that spot. Thats what you want.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
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If I'm right that would break down to 2 per. Not a bad deal for Vernon. It would likely cost a pretty good prospect for them to actually eat that much salary though.
Same can be said with Dickey. He might come over here and suck ass, AL East is WAY better than the NL East and its not even close.
Good for the Yankees, 2-3 M a season is still a decent price for him as a bench player.
As I said I wouldnt mind at all if he came back that cheaply. He would be fine as a 4th OF until Gose is ready and still hits very well against leftys so he would be a good platoon mate with Lind.
I would love to see this potential deal fall through and have AA look elsewhere.
I would also love for Seattle to keep striking out over and over again with free agents and trades because if this continues, they might just continue with their rebuild instead of trying to fast forward it, and they might be inclined to move King Felix. What they could get from us for him would probably set up thier franchise for years to come and it is a trade that Toronto fans could swallow if they were giving so such high prospects. Seattle might just have to go the Oakland root until they can compete consistently and attract free agents to come there and getting 3 young potential all stars with tons of years of control, it makes a lot of sense.
I know the chances of it happening are slim, but if there was a time for Seattle to do it, it's now.
Could a package centering around Travis d'Arnaud C, Anthony Gose OF and Noah Snydergaard SP get it done. With a few added pieces on both sides, I think it could get done.
Obviously, this trade with the Mets would have to fall through which at this point, I kind of hopes does.
I was actually going to post something similar to this, they traded shields for an elite prospect, why wouldn't they do the same here? Phillies won't give us Halladay, no matter the awesomeness that would come with it.
Mets Trade Breakdown:
Dickey- Cy Young Pitcher, 3-5 years left, mastered the knuckleball three years ago, late bloomer, probable extension
Thole- Not too sure about him, heard he is needed to catch for Dickey, how are his stats compared to Buck or JPA?
prospect (told not elite)- I read somewhere that perhaps Harvey or Wheeler coming back? Would make sense as it would be an upgrade over one of the Lansing 2.
for
d/Arnaud- Main piece going the other way, provides stability behind the plate
Syndegaard- Higher Ceiling than harvey or wheeler, however less MLB ready
Buck- Gap until d'Arnaud fills in to replace Thole
prospect- sweeten the pot (Sierra)
AS a Jays fan, I like it. Gives us a chance to compete for a few years, we would have to get some depth at catcher in the near future, however Arencibia and Thole aren't awful. I believe the reason we get Wheeler or HArvey back is because when AA finally made d'Arnaud tradeable, he definetly wanted something back, so he upgrades pitching to provide depth.
Though Price trade could look like this?
D'Arnaud
Syndergaad
Moises Sierra
for
Price
Odorizzi
Am I not giving up enough here?
Nasty Nazem
Come at me Crow!
AA has always talked about building a sustainable winner, a team that would compete for many years. Doing this isn't that. Yes, it gives them a window of opportunity to compete but you are mortgaging a lot of the future which may help us for the next 2-3 years but it doesn't help when you are talking 4-5 years from now. Fact is, Jays had a good enough team to legitimately compete so why not see if that roster can make the playoffs first before going all-in/mortgaging the future to win a WS now.
I have no problem with AA trading prospects. In fact, other than this trade and Haap trade, you haven't seen me complain about trading prospects but it doesn't make sense to trade all of your guys, deplete the farm system and have no flexibility to work with. It isn't like we're getting a Halladay either who will a sure fire ace for the upcoming years and is young enough to be part of the team for the next 5-7 years. Dickey is probably a guy that's peaked... I mean you can't reasonably expect him to get better at 38+ even if he throws a knuckleball. Maybe you hope he maintains it but that isn't a given either given the track record on knuckleballers isn't big.
You need to have a playoff roster first and then push your chips in to go all-in.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
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Woodman19
Registered User
- Jun 14, 2008
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Just to put it into perspective. D'Arnaud + Syndergaard is about as much as we paid for Halladay, who at the time was in his prime age and came with a contract extension first. I do not think Dickey is worth what Halladay was then.
And before everyone rushes to criticise the post saying that D'Arnaud was in both, D'Arnaud holds far more value now then he did then so that point is moot.
And before everyone rushes to criticise the post saying that D'Arnaud was in both, D'Arnaud holds far more value now then he did then so that point is moot.
You know, when ever a debate/argument is started up, its the same thing said, from both sides.
Pro Dickey trade: He won the Cy young
Against Dickey trade: He's 38 years old
Pro Dickey trade: But he's a knuckle baller, so its really like he's 33-34
Against Dickey trade: Why give up such highly touted prospects? Its about prospect management
Pro Dickey trade: We dont know if those guys will be good. Proven talent > Prospects
Its kind of funny now that I think of it.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
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He also only has two years left on his deal. Davis is in the last year as is Lind who's option won't be picked up unless he becomes silver slugger Lind by some miracle so they can just let Davis walk and run Gose in his spot leaving a spot for Wells after this season.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
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I'll add that at the time of the trade TDA wasn't the big piece of the trade and was really just the 3rd piece with upside. His value is ten fold what it was then. I really really hope this isn't the package going out.
I'll add that I'm wondering if the Mets leaking these rumours may hurt them in the sense that teams that didn't believe D'Arnaud to be available may now be calling asking what it would cost them. One can only hope at this point.
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
- Nov 22, 2005
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The thing about trading is it takes two to tango. You can't necessarily walk up to someone say "Here is market value in prospects" and have them jump for joy and take it.
Exactly. I'm pretty sure we gave them some money in the Doc trade too.
We would be giving up more now than we got then and Doc>>>Dickey.
Do you think Wells would come back though ? I thought he wanted to start everyday ?
We're not going for it for one year. Who said that? AA has always been about sustained winning. Our scouting staff is one of the largest in baseball. Just because he overpays in one trade then all of a sudden he's all in for one year? I don't think so. You also know that we have the #10 pick in the draft right? Knowing AA we'll get another blue chipper. Look at all the international signings we've made..Our prospect pool is fine and it'll be fine for years and years to come as long as AA is at the helm. What was his quote?
"When we start to win, we're going to be like a freight train, when we start we won't stop" To me that sounds like a man with a plan not just for one year but for decades.
Ok but you don't have to give them whatever they ask for either. If the price gets too high walk away.
I rather throw some money at Doc when he is a FA next year. We will have a better Idea of what we have with this team by then anyway.
If we get Dickey and he doesn't resign next year Jays will have lost (assuming Johnson gets an insane deal which will probably happen):
Johnson
Dickey
D'Arnaud
Syndegaard
That's a ton to lose in 1 year. I would rather just lose Johnson and go from there.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
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No but I'm sure like any gm AA set a value on Dickey in terms of his value in prospects or pieces from our system. If you can't get said player for that value you should always walk. You don't just keep adding and adding until they finally say yes. I'm not saying that's what AA is doing here.
But don't you think giving up both D'Arnaud and Syndergaard that AA will make sure he re-signs Dickey? A lot of people are all of a sudden second guessing the ninja.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
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Well he played a good chunk of the year last year in AAA so I don't think he'd care much at this point. The yankees are also only looking at him as a platoon player and not an everyday player. This is what his career is now.
Our prospect pool will be drained and who ever we pick at 10th is very unlikely to be as good as TDA.
Also the rules of the draft have changed. It will be much harder to add talent. We also wont be getting as many supplemental picks now.
Part of the reason our team is so full of good young players and prospects is because of trade and we wont be in sell mode to recoup those prospects anymore.
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