Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXVI: Sid is Still Goat

[Jag68Sid87]

Don't get the Marner talk. Bottoming out is the way to go.

Good luck bottoming out with Sidney Crosby on your roster. This is what people cannot grasp. We are not in the same position as other teams. How do you bottom out when San Jose and Chicago are in the same league?

Our defense is so bad that nobody here should be too concerned about us moving UP in the standings. It will happen organically. But if you trade everything around Sid, that is just stupid. This is still the entertainment business and I still watch this team play. I will not spend another dollar on tickets until they hire a new coach, but I am watching.

If Marner comes on board, I would buy a 16 black home jersey. I am due for another jersey.

Keep Rakell. Keep Karlsson. Keep Malkin for god sakes. Letang would only move to go to Montreal, so there is no point. Rust, sure move him but I doubt they do so as long as this head coach is behind the bench.

The biggest issue with this roster is the drek we keep around because this head coach loves drek. Why is Matt Nieto still in the NHL? Why is Ryan Shea still in the NHL? Why are Owen Pickering, Vasili Ponomarev and Ville Koivunen down on the farm? Why is Cody Glass Malkin's right-winger???

Future assets are completely useless if you don't use them. Meanwhile, this team is still "developing" journeymen like Glass and Bemstrom. It's messed up.

 

[Ulf5]

Do you think the players would go along with it? After everything we know about these players, do you really think that is even an option?

We are lucky to have these players, except when people want to tank.

I agree the players' egos would never allow them to be sat. But they have been going along with actions going towards tanking all season long. You've mentioned several.
They can dump the Nietos, Acciaris, etc because everyone can see they've failed in this environment. But replacing them with WBS youth might actually improve the team's play and standing.
Dubas can certainly use some of those mid picks and find someone better than Glass for Malkin's wing. Again the team might see improved play and movement up the standings.
The trade of Eller without a suitable replacement at that point also weakened the team.
Everything points to a season long tank for the best draft position. Sell off what you can. Then start Dubas' oft-mentioned retool in the off-season.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Good luck bottoming out with Sidney Crosby on your roster. This is what people cannot grasp. We are not in the same position as other teams. How do you bottom out when San Jose and Chicago are in the same league?

Our defense is so bad that nobody here should be too concerned about us moving UP in the standings. It will happen organically. But if you trade everything around Sid, that is just stupid. This is still the entertainment business and I still watch this team play. I will not spend another dollar on tickets until they hire a new coach, but I am watching.

If Marner comes on board, I would buy a 16 black home jersey. I am due for another jersey.

Keep Rakell. Keep Karlsson. Keep Malkin for god sakes. Letang would only move to go to Montreal, so there is no point. Rust, sure move him but I doubt they do so as long as this head coach is behind the bench.

The biggest issue with this roster is the drek we keep around because this head coach loves drek. Why is Matt Nieto still in the NHL? Why is Ryan Shea still in the NHL? Why are Owen Pickering, Vasili Ponomarev and Ville Koivunen down on the farm? Why is Cody Glass Malkin's right-winger???

Future assets are completely useless if you don't use them. Meanwhile, this team is still "developing" journeymen like Glass and Bemstrom. It's messed up.

Oh, they are bottoming out with Sid on the roster. The team is barely a one-line team.

Our prospects both homegrown and brought in through trade are not what you think they are.

The Pens cupboard is only nearing half full/okay. Not a blue-chipper in the lot. Let then stew in the minors. You can bring some up next season.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sidney Crosby is like a PPG player. Impressive for his age and the mileage, but by no means some juggernaut that's gonna prevent a team from bottoming out. They're flirting with a top-5 pick and he's playing as well as anyone his age ever has. Shit, man, this organization tanked with Mario.

A little nudge by trading Rakell at the TDL, then Rust and EK this summer, and you're pretty much locked in for a top 3 pick for the foreseeable future imo. Can't imagine giving a shit about a guy like Rakell to the point that you'd refuse to trade him while his value's as high as it'll ever be.

All the "hey we can throw a max deal at Marner/Rantanen" stuff just reeks of sad desperation and a refusal to accept reality. /shrug

Era's over, man. Done. The team would be smart to acknowledge it and accept it, and start trying to make the rapidly approaching post-Sid years as short and painless as they can.

 

[chethejet]

Fans will get behind a young team with a new coach and promise of getting better. Pens have to go through the process of replenishing the system. There is not Sid out there but getting a number of talented prospects will allow the additions of higher end players to fill in the needs. It will take a couple years to get there but smart picks and development.

 

[eXile3]

Sidney Crosby is like a PPG player. Impressive for his age and the mileage, but by no means some juggernaut that's gonna prevent a team from bottoming out. They're flirting with a top-5 pick and he's playing as well as anyone his age ever has. Shit, man, this organization tanked with Mario.

A little nudge by trading Rakell at the TDL, then Rust and EK this summer, and you're pretty much locked in for a top 3 pick for the foreseeable future imo. Can't imagine giving a shit about a guy like Rakell to the point that you'd refuse to trade him while his value's as high as it'll ever be.

All the "hey we can throw a max deal at Marner/Rantanen" stuff just reeks of sad desperation and a refusal to accept reality. /shrug

Era's over, man. Done. The team would be smart to acknowledge it and accept it, and start trying to make the rapidly approaching post-Sid years as short and painless as they can.

But he is. There have been more than a handful of games we lose if not for Sid.

 

[Sideline]

But he is. There have been more than a handful of games we lose if not for Sid.

Yeah, Sid is past the age where he wills the team into the playoffs, but he's still got enough in the tank to get loser points against mid tier teams and win against Chicago and San Jose level teams.

 

[Freeptop]

A little nudge by trading Rakell at the TDL, then Rust and EK this summer, and you're pretty much locked in for a top 3 pick for the foreseeable future imo.

I mean, that kind of sounds like the Pens becoming the Sabres, to me, so I can't say you're making a compelling argument here

(I know what you're really saying, it just struck me a bit funny)

 

[Gurglesons]

It's kind of funny Erik Karlsson, Rakell, and Crosby were like the best forwards and defenseman for their 4 nations team and we aren't even a one line team.

 

[sovietsanta87]

Sidney Crosby is like a PPG player. Impressive for his age and the mileage, but by no means some juggernaut that's gonna prevent a team from bottoming out. They're flirting with a top-5 pick and he's playing as well as anyone his age ever has. Shit, man, this organization tanked with Mario.

A little nudge by trading Rakell at the TDL, then Rust and EK this summer, and you're pretty much locked in for a top 3 pick for the foreseeable future imo. Can't imagine giving a shit about a guy like Rakell to the point that you'd refuse to trade him while his value's as high as it'll ever be.

All the "hey we can throw a max deal at Marner/Rantanen" stuff just reeks of sad desperation and a refusal to accept reality. /shrug

Era's over, man. Done. The team would be smart to acknowledge it and accept it, and start trying to make the rapidly approaching post-Sid years as short and painless as they can.

You can trade all those guys and probably end up below the cap floor. And if they do that, they would almost have to sign some big names to at least give Crosby someone to play with.

Kinda wish they would find a coach that understand how to play puck possession, sound defensive hockey with a slower team but sadly Mike sullivan is the only human that can coach the penguins

 

[The Old Master]

Good luck bottoming out with Sidney Crosby on your roster. This is what people cannot grasp. We are not in the same position as other teams. How do you bottom out when San Jose and Chicago are in the same league?

even sid needs help now. and he's not getting it with sully and co. we don't need to finish dead last as long as we are picking top 3,-5 and maybe hit a lotto.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The only reason we aren't already bottoming out is the team is skilled at obtaining loser points.

 

[BillyOcean]

Good luck bottoming out with Sidney Crosby on your roster. This is what people cannot grasp. We are not in the same position as other teams. How do you bottom out when San Jose and Chicago are in the same league?

Our defense is so bad that nobody here should be too concerned about us moving UP in the standings. It will happen organically. But if you trade everything around Sid, that is just stupid. This is still the entertainment business and I still watch this team play. I will not spend another dollar on tickets until they hire a new coach, but I am watching.

If Marner comes on board, I would buy a 16 black home jersey. I am due for another jersey.

Keep Rakell. Keep Karlsson. Keep Malkin for god sakes. Letang would only move to go to Montreal, so there is no point. Rust, sure move him but I doubt they do so as long as this head coach is behind the bench.

The biggest issue with this roster is the drek we keep around because this head coach loves drek. Why is Matt Nieto still in the NHL? Why is Ryan Shea still in the NHL? Why are Owen Pickering, Vasili Ponomarev and Ville Koivunen down on the farm? Why is Cody Glass Malkin's right-winger???

Future assets are completely useless if you don't use them. Meanwhile, this team is still "developing" journeymen like Glass and Bemstrom. It's messed up.

Some good points in there but I don't know what Mitch Marner gets you instead of maybe the 15th overall draft pick. Seems counterintuitive. The team as constructed is probably going to get a top 7 pick with Sid on it. Its over, and as Penguins fans, we should know better what picking near the top can do.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It's kind of funny Erik Karlsson, Rakell, and Crosby were like the best forwards and defenseman for their 4 nations team and we aren't even a one line team.

That's otherwise known as "the process".

You can trade all those guys and probably end up below the cap floor. And if they do that, they would almost have to sign some big names to at least give Crosby someone to play with.

Kinda wish they would find a coach that understand how to play puck possession, sound defensive hockey with a slower team but sadly Mike sullivan is the only human that can coach the penguins

I've never seen a coach so averse to adjusting how a team plays based on the roster available.

 

[chethejet]

Look Pens need to add picks prospects. Trading Rust with NMC gone is a given. He will be in demand with his game. Karlsson showed he is still a very good D with the puck. Depending on retention, a deal will bring back nice return. I keep Rakell for cap and scoring reasons. Nice top line with Sid and go from there. Lots of younger options for next season.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

The plan should be to bottom out this year and next. Hope to hit a lottery or at least two top ~7 and top ~4 picks. Then go big game hunting w/ Geno off the roster and the cap really jumping next summer to kick-start the next era. let Sid mentor the kids for a year or two and win a Cup with Misa and McKenna in 2028 and Sid can retire after!

 

[Freeptop]

You can trade all those guys and probably end up below the cap floor.

As it stands right now, they're slated to only be about $1.5M above the cap floor for next season without trading anyone. If they just trade one of Nedeljkovic, Desharnais or Lizotte, they'll be below the floor for next season, much less if they trade all of Rakell, Karlsson and Rust.

Granted, that's also without re-signing any RFAs, either, but none of the ones they ought to re-sign should be expensive to do so. In any case, no matter how you look at it, the Pens have a ton of cap space for next season.

There are good reasons to consider trading Rakell, Karlsson or Rust before next season starts. Cap space doesn't make the list.

 

[Jacob]

I like the contract Orlov signed and I’d be inclined to offer him something similar. High cap hit but low term. Easily tradable. Like 2x$7.5 or 3x$7. That gives us a buffer until some other prospects are ready. Then Pickering on the 2nd pair and POJ or Kolyachonok on the 3rd.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I agree the players' egos would never allow them to be sat. But they have been going along with actions going towards tanking all season long. You've mentioned several.
They can dump the Nietos, Acciaris, etc because everyone can see they've failed in this environment. But replacing them with WBS youth might actually improve the team's play and standing.
Dubas can certainly use some of those mid picks and find someone better than Glass for Malkin's wing. Again the team might see improved play and movement up the standings.
The trade of Eller without a suitable replacement at that point also weakened the team.
Everything points to a season long tank for the best draft position. Sell off what you can. Then start Dubas' oft-mentioned retool in the off-season.

It would NOT be the worst thing in the world if we called up young guys and we suddenly started winning games! Hello, you play to win the game!

Are we going to keep Koivunen, McGroarty, Ponomarev, Pickering and co. in the AHL next season because it hurts our chances to land McKenna?

Play the youth. Period. If they suck, we suck and get rewarded on draft day. If they are actually pretty good, and we start building something...that is what it's all about at the end of the day.

Oh, they are bottoming out with Sid on the roster. The team is barely a one-line team.

Our prospects both homegrown and brought in through trade are not what you think they are.

The Pens cupboard is only nearing half full/okay. Not a blue-chipper in the lot. Let then stew in the minors. You can bring some up next season.

How do we even know what we have if we refuse to play them meaningful minutes in meaningful hockey games at the NHL level? Do you really want to see what a blue chipper is going to do under Mike Sullivan? He is going to get Rutger McGroarty-ied, that is what is going to happen. The only way to expose Mike Sullivan is to stop pandering to Mike Sullivan. Put seven rookies in the lineup and see how he handles it.

Some good points in there but I don't know what Mitch Marner gets you instead of maybe the 15th overall draft pick. Seems counterintuitive. The team as constructed is probably going to get a top 7 pick with Sid on it. Its over, and as Penguins fans, we should know better what picking near the top can do.

Picking near the top does nothing if you have a coach that refuses to play young talent. Give me the 15th overall pick in the draft and a new head coach instead of the top pick in the draft and Mike Sullivan behind the bench.

Frankly, it is not close.

I like the contract Orlov signed and I’d be inclined to offer him something similar. High cap hit but low term. Easily tradable. Like 2x$7.5 or 3x$7. That gives us a buffer until some other prospects are ready. Then Pickering on the 2nd pair and POJ or Kolyachonok on the 3rd.

How confident are you that Orlov will be more like Marcus Pettersson and less like Ryan Graves?

With players that have zero familiarity with Mike Sullivan, it is a roll of the dice. We just never know. Plus, Sullivan hates Russians.

 

[Ugene Magic]

It would NOT be the worst thing in the world if we called up young guys and we suddenly started winning games! Hello, you play to win the game!

Are we going to keep Koivunen, McGroarty, Ponomarev, Pickering and co. in the AHL next season because it hurts our chances to land McKenna?

Play the youth. Period. If they suck, we suck and get rewarded on draft day. If they are actually pretty good, and we start building something...that is what it's all about at the end of the day.

I said bring them up next season, there's no point in doing it this year.

This team should not be winning period. Not unless you want to waste about a decade longer with getting back to worthwhile winning. Winning now is pointless winning.

 

[Jacob]

It would NOT be the worst thing in the world if we called up young guys and we suddenly started winning games! Hello, you play to win the game!

Are we going to keep Koivunen, McGroarty, Ponomarev, Pickering and co. in the AHL next season because it hurts our chances to land McKenna?

Play the youth. Period. If they suck, we suck and get rewarded on draft day. If they are actually pretty good, and we start building something...that is what it's all about at the end of the day.




How do we even know what we have if we refuse to play them meaningful minutes in meaningful hockey games at the NHL level? Do you really want to see what a blue chipper is going to do under Mike Sullivan? He is going to get Rutger McGroarty-ied, that is what is going to happen. The only way to expose Mike Sullivan is to stop pandering to Mike Sullivan. Put seven rookies in the lineup and see how he handles it.




Picking near the top does nothing if you have a coach that refuses to play young talent. Give me the 15th overall pick in the draft and a new head coach instead of the top pick in the draft and Mike Sullivan behind the bench.

Frankly, it is not close.


How confident are you that Orlov will be more like Marcus Pettersson and less like Ryan Graves?

With players that have zero familiarity with Mike Sullivan, it is a roll of the dice. We just never know. Plus, Sullivan hates Russians.

I think he’s pretty self-sufficient and you can just kinda slot him in without needing any kind of protection. Plus in my scenario we replace Sullivan.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I said bring them up next season, there's no point in doing it this year.

This team should not be winning period. Not unless you want to waste about a decade longer with getting back to worthwhile winning. Winning now is pointless winning.

It is not pointless if the youth are helping with the winning!

 

[Ugene Magic]

It is not pointless if the youth are helping with the winning!

It's not helping with getting actual blue-chippers for the future past the core.

Do you want to ice boring barely able to string wins together or something?

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

Gotta fire Sullivan

 

[Andy99]

Gotta fire Sullivan

It’s so annoying he’s still here putting together his garbage lineups and trotting out the same tired, ineffective scheme