Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 11th: BJ's like Dickey

[chaosrevolver]

Umm... Why are you guys complaining? Isn't the objective to win NOW?! Let's do this. There has to be a packaged deal, no way AA would trade TDA for Dickey straight up. I hope this is a big deal.

In AA we TRUST!

The concern is the rest of the deal.

I'm really curious to see if we can snag Ike Davis out of NY.

 

[Nasty Nazem]

Andy Martino ‏@MartinoNYDN

First piece of info today is that Jays have been reviewing medicals on Dickey since at least yesterday afternoon, per source.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Umm... Why are you guys complaining? Isn't the objective to win NOW?! Let's do this. There has to be a packaged deal, no way AA would trade TDA for Dickey straight up. I hope this is a big deal.

In AA we TRUST!

Dickey is unproven and he's already 38.He's a flash in the pan he literally came out of no where. Its a huge risk, and quite frankly it shows AA's inexperience in giving up top prospects in order to get him. That is, of course depending on what the Jays give up but it looks terrible already.

Yes it is to win now, but we can get someone who will be better than Dickey for what we're giving up imo ,especially one that will have more longevity

 

[ronzigato]

He's a flash in the pan he literally came out of no where. Its a huge risk, and quite frankly it shows AA's inexperience in giving up top prospects in order to get him.

I love this stuff. First, who in the world are YOU to make such a claim? Are you Brian Cashman? Or are you literally another GM who has literally worked in baseball for a literally long time, and thus can make such judgements. I hate the word 'literally'.

 

[King Mapes]

Dickey is unproven and he's already 38.He's a flash in the pan he literally came out of no where. Its a huge risk, and quite frankly it shows AA's inexperience in giving up top prospects in order to get him. That is, of course depending on what the Jays give up but it looks terrible already.

Yes it is to win now, but we can get someone who will be better than Dickey for what we're giving up imo ,especially one that will have more longevity

Out of nowhere? He's been great for 3 years and can pitch 5-6 more years if he wants

 

[Bjindaho]

Meh, they're batting 7th and 9th in the order.

Remember when Scott Brosius hit above .300 hitting #9 for the stacked Yankees team? When your first 6 batters tire out the pitcher, they tend to make it easier for your bottom third to hit.

He hit .298. His claim to fame was his 90 RBI

 

[chaosrevolver]

Dickey is unproven and he's already 38.He's a flash in the pan he literally came out of no where. Its a huge risk, and quite frankly it shows AA's inexperience in giving up top prospects in order to get him. That is, of course depending on what the Jays give up but it looks terrible already.

Yes it is to win now, but we can get someone who will be better than Dickey for what we're giving up imo ,especially one that will have more longevity

Since 2010:
Record: 39-28
ERA: 2.95
IP: 616.2
H: 559
K: 468
BB: 150
WHIP: 1.151

Not exactly what I would call "coming out of nowhere".

 

[KuleminFan41]

I love this stuff. First, who in the world are YOU to make such a claim? Are you Brian Cashman? Or are you literally another GM who has literally worked in baseball for a literally long time, and thus can make such judgements. I hate the word 'literally'.

Who am I? Am I not allowed to have an opinion? So because I have an opinion you don't like, I don't know anything? Makes sense obviously. Sorry but it doesn't take a genius to look past 1 good season. People see through rose tinted glasses around here, its actually quite pathetic. Oh boo hoo you hate the word literally but hate to break it to ya, its the truth.

Out of nowhere? He's been great for 3 years and can pitch 5-6 more years if he wants

No he hasn't been great for 3 years get off that. He did come out of no where, ask anybody who covers baseball, no one was expecting any sort of season like he had. 2011 he went 8-13 and thats a great year? His best season before this past season was 11-9 with the rest of his above 4.60 ERA

 

[chaosrevolver]

Who am I? Am I not allowed to have an opinion? So because I have an opinion you don't like, I don't know anything? Makes sense obviously. Sorry but it doesn't take a genius to look past 1 good season. People see through rose tinted glasses around here, its actually quite pathetic. Oh boo hoo you hate the word literally but hate to break it to ya, its the truth.


No he hasn't been great for 3 years get off that. He did come out of no where, ask anybody who covers baseball, no one was expecting any sort of season like he had. 2011 he went 8-13 and thats a great year? His best season before this past season was 11-9 with the rest of his above 4.60 ERA

8-13 on a team that provided no offense..he had a 3.28 ERA and a WHIP of 1.23. That was the worst year he has had in 3 seasons and that's still a very solid pitching campaign. In 2010 he was very good and last year, in the first year he was able to throw the knuckleball that effectively, was the best pitcher in the NL.

 

[chaosrevolver]

Adam Rubin ‏@AdamRubinESPN

Don't believe there's been formal extension talks with Jays and Dickey's people yet, nor a formal physical arranged.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Since 2010:
Record: 39-28
ERA: 2.95
IP: 616.2
H: 559
K: 468
BB: 150
WHIP: 1.151

Not exactly what I would call "coming out of nowhere".

LOL, look at his stats as a whole, don't pick out certain stats. 2011 he went 8-13 ,2010 he went 11-9

Sorry but those are not stats to "watch out" for. He's a flash in the pan, sorry if I'm not convinced by 1 season like many are

Hell, even his bullpen stats are crap

 

[Bjindaho]

Who am I? Am I not allowed to have an opinion? So because I have an opinion you don't like, I don't know anything? Makes sense obviously. Sorry but it doesn't take a genius to look past 1 good season. People see through rose tinted glasses around here, its actually quite pathetic. Oh boo hoo you hate the word literally but hate to break it to ya, its the truth.


No he hasn't been great for 3 years get off that. He did come out of no where, ask anybody who covers baseball, no one was expecting any sort of season like he had. 2011 he went 8-13 and thats a great year? His best season before this past season was 11-9 with the rest of his above 4.60 ERA

Please don't ever use W-L as an argument about how good a pitcher is again

 

[KuleminFan41]

Please don't ever use W-L as an argument about how good a pitcher is ever again

I'm not, but it still shows that he has elevated ERA as well.

 

[chaosrevolver]

LOL, look at his stats as a whole, don't pick out certain stats. 2011 he went 8-13 ,2010 he went 11-9

Sorry but those are not stats to "watch out" for. He's a flash in the pan, sorry if I'm not convinced by 1 season like many are

Hell, even his bullpen stats are crap

Pretty sad when you use W-L as an argument.

EDIT: An elevated ERA that still was sub 3.30.

 

[Bjindaho]

I'm not, but it still shows that he has elevated ERA as well.

No it doesn't. W-L shows that his team got outscored when he was on the mound in 11 games that they ended up losing (or more) and that they outscored the opponent with him on the mound in 8 games (or more). Nothing more.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Pretty sad when you use W-L as an argument.

No, its not just his W-L record isn't great but you're not telling me people aren't slobbering themselves over his 20 wins this season? lol

So, if its a bad record it doesn't count but only if its good it does? he had a 2.84 ERA when he won 11 games. 3.28 in 2011,4.62 in 09,5.21 in 08

But yah, stand out statistics

 

[Dwight K Schrute]

No, its not just his W-L record isn't great but you're not telling me people aren't slobbering themselves over his 20 wins this season? lol

So, if its a bad record it doesn't count but only if its good it does? he had a 2.84 ERA when he won 11 games. 3.28 in 2011,4.62 in 09,5.21 in 08

But yah, stand out statistics

Man, have you missed the revolution in baseball statistics? Nobody has cared about wins for 15 years. They are far too dependent on the team around you and don't give any indication of your ability. Get a clue.

 

[Bjindaho]

No, its not just his W-L record isn't great but you're not telling me people aren't slobbering themselves over his 20 wins this season? lol

So, if its a bad record it doesn't count but only if its good it does? he had a 2.84 ERA when he won 11 games. 3.28 in 2011,4.62 in 09,5.21 in 08

But yah, stand out statistics

Even ERA isn't a very good stat. It is dependant on factors outside of a pitcher's control. But a 3.28 ERA is not bad.

 

[Dwight K Schrute]

I'm not, but it still shows that he has elevated ERA as well.

An elevated ERA under 3.30-- That like complaining that malkin scored 45 goals and not 50

 

[chaosrevolver]

In addition using statistics from '08 and '09 are pretty useless since he was far from fully developing his knuckleball at that point. It really came to fruition when he went to NY.

 

[Dwight K Schrute]

No, its not just his W-L record isn't great but you're not telling me people aren't slobbering themselves over his 20 wins this season? lol

So, if its a bad record it doesn't count but only if its good it does? he had a 2.84 ERA when he won 11 games. 3.28 in 2011,4.62 in 09,5.21 in 08

But yah, stand out statistics

Yeah and Bautista and Edwin suck too. Look at they're stats before the last few years.

 

[King Mapes]

Who am I? Am I not allowed to have an opinion? So because I have an opinion you don't like, I don't know anything? Makes sense obviously. Sorry but it doesn't take a genius to look past 1 good season. People see through rose tinted glasses around here, its actually quite pathetic. Oh boo hoo you hate the word literally but hate to break it to ya, its the truth.


No he hasn't been great for 3 years get off that. He did come out of no where, ask anybody who covers baseball, no one was expecting any sort of season like he had. 2011 he went 8-13 and thats a great year? His best season before this past season was 11-9 with the rest of his above 4.60 ERA

I like how you point out his win loss record then use era to your convenience. He has been great for 3 years, the big difference last year was k's went way up. 2.84 era, 3.28 era, 2.73 era.

Win loss is the worst way to judge a pitcher. So Felix wasn't good in 2010 right? He was only 13-12

 

[KuleminFan41]

Man, have you missed the revolution in baseball statistics? Nobody has cared about wins for 15 years. They are far too dependent on the team around you and don't give any indication of your ability. Get a clue.

Thats not all I posted about but if you'll ignore it then fine

Like I said before, no body expected his season and if someone says they thought he would, they're lying.

Its teh same **** Edwin Encarnacion with people around here. They wanted him dead and gone from the city. Has 1 great season and now he's one of the best players in baseball Or how about some people wanting Rajai Davis over Rasmus?

If we do get Dickey, I hope I'm wrong I honestly do. But his previous stats aren't staggering for a guy who's stats only just got good

 

[KuleminFan41]

I like how you point out his win loss record then use era to your convenience. He has been great for 3 years, the big difference last year was k's went way up. 2.84 era, 3.28 era, 2.73 era.

Win loss is the worst way to judge a pitcher. So Felix wasn't good in 2011 right? He was only 13-12

Different scenarios. Felix is actually proven while Dickey is not.

 

[Ohio Jones]

No, its not just his W-L record isn't great but you're not telling me people aren't slobbering themselves over his 20 wins this season? lol

So, if its a bad record it doesn't count but only if its good it does? he had a 2.84 ERA when he won 11 games. 3.28 in 2011,4.62 in 09,5.21 in 08

But yah, stand out statistics

I can't speak for what the casual Jays fan is thinking of this. Of course, this is probably the first a casual fan has ever heard of d'Arnaud, so their perspective on the rumoured deal isn't especially valuable.

But for the majority of posters in this thread, Dickey's 20 wins are utterly inconsequential, because W/L tells very little about a pitcher's ability to pitch. HOW he got 20 wins is much more informative. Dickey's underlying stats have been strong for three years, ever since he changed his knuckler. He's essentially a different pitcher since making that change, so his career numbers (and any stats from 2009 or prior) are rendered irrelevant.