Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 11th: BJ's like Dickey

[Powdered Toast Man]

I acknowledge that D'Arnaud is a real good prospect, but in the context of refusing to trade him more or less straight up for the reigning Cy Young award winner I think we all may need to reassess what a "real good prospect" actually is.

 

[weems]

We also have Santiago Nessy who many are high on.

 

[Suntouchable13]

JPA was never rated as highly as TDA. There were alwas questions about his D where with TDA it is looked at as a +.

JPA nevr broke the top 20 in MLB prospects where TDA will be well within the top 10.

Just because some people overrated JPA doesn't mean TDA must be too.


Last week everyone loved TDA now everyone is talking him down.

I am not even trying to talk down TDA, I am trying to talk up JP in the hopes that the Mets people read this forum and I am trying to convince them to take JP instead

 

[Woodman19]

I acknowledge that D'Arnaud is a real good prospect, but in the context of refusing to trade him more or less straight up for the reigning Cy Young award winner I think we all may need to reassess what a "real good prospect" actually is.

If Dickey was 30 years old do you think there is even hesitation in moving D'Arnaud for him and a huge debate?

 

[Epictetus]

Says who.


Depth is everything.

Tell me why 5 starting pitchers in the post-season is needed. Because of depth? When it comes to the post-season, you want to put out the best pitcher possible to win you the game. It doesn't matter how much depth you have or if you have 5 good starting pitchers. Only one can pitch at a time. This is why teams put their best pitchers on short-rest.

You need 3 Stars and two JAGs who can get you enough wins to get into the playoffs.

I agree, except we are talking about in the playoffs, not making the playoffs.

Stop comparing baseball to hockey, the entire make-up and systems of each game are different.

I would like to agree, but the comparisons serve doing two functions:

1) Helps to allow people who are not big into baseball learn and get a "relative" comparison for what the Jays are doing, and why they are doing it. Let's not forget, many people do not know of all players or the assessment of value in baseball. Throwing out a bunch of statistics to show that a particular player is good is meaningless if they do not understand baseball to begin with.

2) Similar to above, except for prospects, people like to know how good a prospect the player in question is. For whatever reason, hockey comparisons seem to help.

My only problem is that this is done much too much for my liking and it's hard to find agreement across the board.

 

[dredeye]

Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS
#mets, #jays still working to finalize. Jays willing to include d'arnaud, but said to want prospect back with dickey

Only 2 prospects I'm interested in on their end. Both are out of our price range I'd think. Wheeler and Harvey. Maybe he's going for some AAA depth.

Cechinni would be a nice pick up. SS that likely projects as a 2b.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

If Dickey was 30 years old do you think there is even hesitation in moving D'Arnaud for him and a huge debate?

I imagine so. "Top 10 prospect" and "Top catching prospect" have a way of sticking in people's heads.

 

[Stats01]

Nah multiple guys (including Sickels) have said D'Arnaud doesn't have a ML quality arm yet.

The guy is 23 though, at some point doesn't he need to start developing it..haha Like this is what I mean about maybe overvaluing our prospects sometimes.

 

[Felstead]

1. Dylan Bundy, rhp, Orioles
2. Jurickson Profar, ss, Rangers
3. Wil Myers, of, Royals
4. Taijuan Walker, rhp, Mariners
5. Danny Hultzen, lhp, Mariners
6. Gerrit Cole, rhp, Pirates
7. Tyler Skaggs, lhp, Diamondbacks
8. Jose Fernandez, rhp, Marlins
9. Manny Machado, ss, Orioles
10. Zack Wheeler, rhp, Mets
11. Mike Olt, 3b, Rangers
12. Nick Castellanos, 3B, Tigers
13. Matt Barnes, rhp, Red Sox
14. Francisco Lindor, ss, Indians
15. Jameson Taillon, rhp, Pirates
16. Archie Bradley, rhp, Diamondbacks
17. Nolan Arenado, 3b, Rockies
18. Oscar Taveras, of, Cardinals
19. Travis D'Arnaud, c, Blue Jays

From Baseball America.

What list are you looking at?

Cause the Feb edition of BBA shows D'arnaud at 17 and Wheeler at 35.. Can't find the updated one( ya i know its old)

 

[cyris]

If Dickey was 30 years old do you think there is even hesitation in moving D'Arnaud for him and a huge debate?

And??? He isnt 30.

 

[dredeye]

Andy Martino ‏@MartinoNYDN

Not all scouts can be good ones

 

[Woodman19]

And??? He isnt 30.

My point is, we aren't arguing over how good Dickey is, its just some are uncomfortable trading D'Arnaud for a 38 year old player.

 

[Animal]

are the jays world series favourites with dickey?

 

[weems]

What list are you looking at?

Cause the Feb edition of BBA shows D'arnaud at 17 and Wheeler at 35.. Can't find the updated one( ya i know its old)

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/07/midseason-top-50-prospects-list-2/

July 5, 2012

 

[Leafssss]

Great thing about Dickey in regards to playoffs is that he doesn't need to rest as much, so having him play twice in a series is another awesome pro of having him.

 

[TootooTrain]

Cechinni would be a nice pick up. SS that likely projects as a 2b.

Not a bad call. We really need to re-stock our positional players, especially the infield. Not much to look forward to other than Goins, Cooper and maybe Nay. (I'm excluding catching prospects)

 

[Stats01]

are the jays world series favourites with dickey?

IMO they are, or at least in the discussion of contenders.

 

[Anthrax442]

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2...mmates/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

And, in an underappreciated part of this saga that soared into visibility this week, Dickey can be a handful. He clearly has enjoyed his rise from the ashes into a Flushing folk hero, and while he deserves praise and riches, there’s also the matter of him having to coexist peacefully in a workplace. His gift for self-promotion and his love of attention don’t endear himself to most teammates. Instead, his durability and outstanding results led him to be appreciated but far from beloved.

If Dickey can’t control his verbiage at a holiday party — “Folks, not today, not with the kids here” was all he had to say to reporters — then how would a full season of uncertainty feel? How many times would Dickey spout off publicly? Or work behind the scenes to make the Mets look bad and boost his own brand?

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

My point is, we aren't arguing over how good Dickey is, its just some are uncomfortable trading D'Arnaud for a 38 year old player.

Which is completely fair, you just have to balance that apprehensiveness by actually looking at the player we would be getting. He's 38, yes, but he is really good and so on.

 

[weems]

are the jays world series favourites with dickey?

I'd say definitely top 3.
Vegas had it Cincinatti, Wash and then the Jays before some of the signings happen but I guess both the Dodgers and Angels jumped up.

 

[Drunken Crunker]

Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1

Again #Bluejays not dealing d'Arnaud to #Mets unless can do extension with Dickey. Exec from team interested in Dickey said Tor is too well run org to go this far in trade talks without feeling good it knows what Dickey wants and that he will take it on even without formal negotiations having begun yet. #Mets #Bluejays

 

[Animal]

Hate when trades drag out. I remember with the Kessel trade, got to a point where it didn't even matter what we gave up, i just wanted to know that it was official

 

[Stats01]

Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1

I really don't understand why the Mets aren't allowing the Jays to talk to his people.

 

[Kb21]

I acknowledge that D'Arnaud is a real good prospect, but in the context of refusing to trade him more or less straight up for the reigning Cy Young award winner I think we all may need to reassess what a "real good prospect" actually is.

you do understand he is 38 right. even roy halladay is looking more and more human as he ages. sure hes a knuckleballer but how can anyone say he will stay good when there has never been any evidence of any pitcher pitching well, past their 30's.

we if we include TDA we better be getting a good prospect back.

 

[Drew311]

I don't think many people realize that Dickey didn't become a full on knuckleballer until 2010, the year he began to pitch like a top of the rotation starter. When he was putting up mediocre to terrible stats he wasnt throwing the knuckler as much. The people with doubts about Dickey pitching well for three more years, or how he will fare in the AL East shouldn't really be concerned. If his knuckleball is on, it doesnt matter who's in the batters box, no one can touch it. It's just that good of a pitch.